Permanent Daylight Saving Time

[Buzzworthy]

This thread fully confirms my suspicion that if every member of this forum and their wretched, wasteful spawn were exterminated tonight, the world would be a better place.

Here’s hoping!

Get fucked you piece of shit.
2nd time here you want people to die.

Ban this motherfucker for good Mods!

[AK47bp]

But on a positive note, be a good time to be in the curtain making business with that extra hour of sunlight fading all those drapes...

I’ve got brand new extra large custom made blackout curtains for sale if anyone’s looking.

I’m serious. Wife fat fingered the width when ordering and too big for my bedroom. $1600 new yours for $200


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[riser4]

This thread fully confirms my suspicion that if every member of this forum and their wretched, wasteful spawn were exterminated tonight, the world would be a better place.

Here’s hoping!

You do not fail to bring the lulz

[dunfree]

Hey now I start at 7 too.

I’ve had one salaried job as an adult with a strict fixed start time every workday (7:30-4 or 8-4:30, can’t remember which, but that it was annoying)The change sucked with that job. But so many jobs out there without a strict fixed schedule

[The AD]

You do not fail to bring the lulz

Everyone's favorite misanthrope...or something.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

The setting of wide ranging public policy based on the selfish desires of the privileged few isn’t a symptom of societal failure? What rock have you been hiding under the past few years?

The rock of privilege


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[2FUNKY]

This thread fully confirms my suspicion that if every member of this forum and their wretched, wasteful spawn were exterminated tonight, the world would be a better place.

Here’s hoping!

Buh bye…..

[oldnew_guy]

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-...-be-permanent/


Sleep experts widely agree with the Senate that the country should abandon its twice-yearly seasonal time changes. But they disagree on one key point: which time system should be permanent. Unlike the Senate, many sleep experts believe the country should adopt year-round standard time.
After the Senate voted unanimously and with little discussion Tuesday to make daylight saving time permanent, the American Academy of Sleep Medicine issued a statement cautioning that the move overlooks potential health risks associated with that time system.

The AASM made this stance clear in 2020 when it released a position statement recommending that the country institute year-round standard time. Its reasoning, in part, is that standard time is more closely associated with humans’ intrinsic circadian rhythm, and that disrupting that rhythm, as happens with daylight saving time, has been associated with increased risks of obesity, metabolic syndrome, cardiovascular disease and depression

[ötzi]

Ok if nobody's buying into Double Daylight Time ™, I vote we go with Greenwich Mean Time for the whole country all the time, kinda like China but classier.

[Ted Striker]

Yet even Greenwich/London doesn't remain on GMT. They switch to BST every spring - but on a different date than our DST. Pure madness.

[Danno]

Its reasoning, in part, is that standard time is more closely associated with humans’ intrinsic circadian rhythm, and that disrupting that rhythm, as happens with daylight saving time, has been associated with increased risks of obesity, metabolic syndrome, cardiovascular disease and depression

I don't understand how the arbitrary assigning of numbers to a clock is "more closely associated with humans’ intrinsic circadian rhythm".

[HappyCamper]

Don’t Americans get shit sleep anyway? Lipstick on a pig.

Maybe figure out how to make us less stressed out insomniacs.

[ötzi]

Yet even Greenwich/London doesn't remain on GMT. They switch to BST every spring - but on a different date than our DST. Pure madness.

BST. Boston Standard Time? Works for me.

[::: :::]

We should shift 37 mins just to fuck with the rest of the world

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I don't understand how the arbitrary assigning of numbers to a clock is "more closely associated with humans’ intrinsic circadian rhythm".

That’s because you’re a lawyer and not a doctor


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[skinipenem]

That’s because you’re a lawyer and not a doctor


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Qft

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[The AD]

I don't understand how the arbitrary assigning of numbers to a clock is "more closely associated with humans’ intrinsic circadian rhythm".

It's not arbitrary, though. For the most part the center of a time zone is going to be aligned such that noon falls approximately at the sun's zenith. Daylight time shifts this forward an hour so the sun's zenith is closer to 1 pm.

I can see where the docs are coming from, but I think the vast majority of people in the U.S. are already well off their circadian rhythm because we need to get to work or school at a certain time.

[oldnew_guy]

I don't understand how the arbitrary assigning of numbers to a clock is "more closely associated with humans’ intrinsic circadian rhythm".

RTFA?

It’s not arbitrary if you are on a fixed schedule. School, work etc have normal hours.

As someone pointed out most Americans already have poor sleep habits, this just potentially makes it worse.

AFAIK the circadian rhythm is tied to daylight so when you shift sunrise to 9 am and ask people to be at work at 8 it screws with your normal rhythm. People need the AM light to get going whereas the PM darkness is needed to get things winding down for sleep.

I have small kids and it’s really obvious to me how they are effected by sunrise/sunset. DST changes really screws with the routine.

The experts are saying “yes, stop the DST changes, but please don’t pick the worst option, select standard time.”

[MagnificentUnicorn]

RTFA?

It’s not arbitrary if you are on a fixed schedule. School, work etc have normal hours.

As someone pointed out most Americans already have poor sleep habits, this just potentially makes it worse.

AFAIK the circadian rhythm is tied to daylight so when you shift sunrise to 9 am and ask people to be at work at 8 it screws with your normal rhythm. People need the AM light to get going whereas the PM darkness is needed to get things winding down for sleep.

I have small kids and it’s really obvious to me how they are effected by sunrise/sunset. DST changes really screws with the routine.

The experts are saying “yes, stop the DST changes, but please don’t pick the worst option, select standard time.”

But what about after work rides?! Are you suggesting that having a somewhat natural photo period and better sleep is more important than after work rides and beers for the bros? Crazy talk


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[::: :::]

RTFA?

It’s not arbitrary if you are on a fixed schedule. School, work etc have normal hours.

As someone pointed out most Americans already have poor sleep habits, this just potentially makes it worse.

AFAIK the circadian rhythm is tied to daylight so when you shift sunrise to 9 am and ask people to be at work at 8 it screws with your normal rhythm. People need the AM light to get going whereas the PM darkness is needed to get things winding down for sleep.

I have small kids and it’s really obvious to me how they are effected by sunrise/sunset. DST changes really screws with the routine.

The experts are saying “yes, stop the DST changes, but please don’t pick the worst option, select standard time.”

How hard is it for us to adjust?
Just look at all the preemptive complaining...


as if school, work etc can't adjust their "normal" hours too...

i mean, fuk, in most school systems currently, the start of the day is already more affected by shared school bus logistics than it is by "normal" time
[buses/drivers are scheduled so that they can service multiple systems to balance school budgets & not carry a huge bus fleet to get everyone to school at exactly the same time]

the construction day is different than the banking day is different from the health care day is different from the grocery day is different from the retail day

that's now

[oldnew_guy]

How hard is it for us to adjust?
Just look at all the preemptive complaining...


as if school, work etc can't adjust their "normal" hours too...

i mean, fuk, in most school systems currently, the start of the day is already more affected by shared school bus logistics than it is by "normal" time
[buses/drivers are scheduled so that they can service multiple systems to balance school budgets & not carry a huge bus fleet to get everyone to school at exactly the same time]

So if my work and kids school adjusts their start time twice a year to account for the changing hours of daylight that is different than DST changes twice a year ….?

Or are you suggesting that we shift a normal 8 am start time to 9?

Just funny to me that the experts are like “yes! Get rid of the twice annual time change! Oh no, no, not that way…that’s the worst way.”

[The AD]

AFAIK the circadian rhythm is tied to daylight so when you shift sunrise to 9 am and ask people to be at work at 8 it screws with your normal rhythm. People need the AM light to get going whereas the PM darkness is needed to get things winding down for sleep.

I think this is true and I think this ship has sailed a long time ago. My feeling is that most people already go to work in the dark for most of the winter, so this really won't have much effect on them. I do think having kids walk to school or the bus stop in the dark is a valid point against year-round daylight time, but there are other points in its favor like more afternoon light. On balance that's why I think the current system is the best compromise.

i mean, fuk, in most school systems currently, the start of the day is already more affected by shared school bus logistics than it is by "normal" time

Yes. When I was in high school the fucking bus dropped us off at around 7:00 am even though our home room started at 7:45. Having a car or someone who could give you a ride meant an extra 45 minutes of sleep.

[::: :::]

So if my work and kids school adjusts their start time twice a year to account for the changing hours of daylight that is different than DST changes twice a year ….?

Or are you suggesting that we shift a normal 8 am start time to 9?

Just funny to me that the experts are like “yes! Get rid of the twice annual time change! Oh no, no, not that way…that’s the worst way.”

it's just a number

by definition, we have to agree on what it means -- that part is up to us

the school system, for instance, reevaluates their calendar yearly and publishes it a year out

they're already doing the work of organizing schedules, now it just involves deciding what time the littles meet their bus this year compared to last

[Ted Striker]

I don't understand how the arbitrary assigning of numbers to a clock is "more closely associated with humans’ intrinsic circadian rhythm".

There are these ground school/CRM/human factors training events that all airlines require their aircrews to attend, and each year there seems to be a buzz topic. I remember the sleep one being particularly absurd. They talked about getting into "sleep debt" like it was cumulative, and how disruptive wildly changing schedules was to your overall well being. I was like, "dude, I commute across three time zones, have four red eyes this month, half my pairings start late and finish early, and none of the hotels are as close as the company claims"

Anyway, all I remember is that exposure to full spectrum light during midday followed by (some amount) of darkness (or at the very least, limiting exposure to wavelengths shorter than about 500nm) results in the most restful sleep, and that light exposure in the mornings causes a fairly acute melatonin suppression. So long evenings / late mornings theoretically make worker bees less productive.

But, as noted, nobody's boss gives a shit.

[skaredshtles]

Ok if nobody's buying into Double Daylight Time ™, I vote we go with Greenwich Mean Time for the whole country all the time, kinda like China but classier.

This - GMT all the things.