It's hotter than a whore house on nickel night

[Supermoon]

There are no good ways to fight large fires. Full stop. They almost all take some sort of weather shift to finally go out. The only thing we can do is try to make fires less likely, which again circles back to fighting climate change

[pureantigravity]

The train track could have a masonry wall on both sides where it passes through small town communities. Not too expensive and would possibly have prevented this. If they can build tall sound deadening walls along freeways then it can't be that expensive either. It would only need to contain or retard ignited combustibles. Mitigation doesn't have to be perfect to justify the cost. It just needs to reduce the incidence of otherwise very expensive catastrophes.

[neufox47]

I can vouch for this

Was it worth it?

[evdog]

No one who lives in their home feels that way. Losing all your stuff and memories sucks.

Boss at my last company lived in a neighborhood that was highly impacted by the fire here in 2007. A bunch of people on his street lost their homes. He was relieved to find that his survived but admitted being somewhat envious later when those neighbors were rebuilding with insurance money and buying all new shiny stuff.

On the other hand quite a few homes were never re-built, or took it many years as some insurance companies worked their hardest to deny or limit claims. Last time I drove through the area there were still some empty lots, 10+ yrs later.

Certainly it could work... with enough pumps, water, sprinklers, and power to run them. The problem with most ideas will come down to the cost of implementing them. There's also technical issues when you look into the details. E.g. once a house is on fire, the roof protects the fire, and no amount of sprinklers will put it out.

I don't think sprinklers could stop one of the raging fire storms from rolling through under high winds. Too many people won't take even basic preventative steps to clean up their properties or fire harden homes and you'd need all those things together to really stand a chance. And yeah the politics would be tough for a costly sprinkler system in a smaller community. People that live in wildland-urban interface areas tend to lean toward the climate denier and "don't tell me what to do" mindset so anything like this would be a tough sell. There was an article here about Cal fire and fire marshalls going door to door to check on fire clearances and getting a lot of hate from locals.

There was a place on the outskirts of Paradise that used a combination of firesafe construction, raking the forest, and sprinklers to survive that fire.

Might be possible.

FWIW, my boss's house was in the middle of a suburban neighborhood miles from open space where the fire was raging. Most of the homes that burned did when blowing embers got in through vents and ignited insulation and other materials inside. External sprinkler systems won't help you much there. They would stop embers from igniting grasses, leaves and other combustibles outside and spreading to the house, but you could mitigate much of that risk by clearing out those materials yourself. If you were so inclined.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

There are no good ways to fight large fires. Full stop. They almost all take some sort of weather shift to finally go out. The only thing we can do is try to make fires less likely, which again circles back to fighting climate change

And better forest management, ie fuels reduction.


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[MagnificentUnicorn]

The train track could have a masonry wall on both sides where it passes through small town communities. Not too expensive and would possibly have prevented this. If they can build tall sound deadening walls along freeways then it can't be that expensive either. It would only need to contain or retard ignited combustibles. Mitigation doesn't have to be perfect to justify the cost. It just needs to reduce the incidence of otherwise very expensive catastrophes.

How far will these walls extend beyond town? Have you ever seen how far and fast a firestorm moves?

We had most of a subdivision burn to the ground 30 minutes after a fire started three miles away. Several large warehouses burned to the ground from ember spotting two miles from the subdivision in the middle of town.




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[pureantigravity]

Can a fire cross into China. Huh? LOL. I wonder! Do walls stop wind-whipped fires in communities? I don't have the slightest clue. My fire fighting skills are limited to extinguishing camp fires and experimental fires started with gasoline in our backyard as a kid (mom actually gave us a special place to start fires away from the house). And the time I singed my eyebrows right off as a kid playing with black powder from dissecting fireworks. Eyebrows can vanish in less than the blink of an eye. Thankfully the eyes blinked.

Walls. In some places it might make sense. A good criteria could be developed. Fire-cuts work in fighting forest fires and they aren't even walls. These train track fires seem to only happen occasionally but usually inconsequentially. If a measure reduces the probability by 1/2 or 1/4 for a bad outcome it might make sense. Gone are the days of Leave it to Beaver. We all need to become Beavers and build a dam from what is coming according to climate change experts.

[John_B]

Can a fire cross into China. Huh? LOL. I wonder! Do walls stop wind-whipped fires in communities? I don't have the slightest clue. My fire fighting skills are limited to extinguishing camp fires and experimental fires started with gasoline in our backyard as a kid (mom actually gave us a special place to start fires away from the house). And the time I singed my eyebrows right off as a kid playing with black powder from dissecting fireworks. Eyebrows can vanish in less than the blink of an eye. Thankfully the eyes blinked.

Walls. In some places it might make sense. A good criteria could be developed. Fire-cuts work in fighting forest fires and they aren't even walls. These train track fires seem to only happen occasionally but usually inconsequentially. If a measure reduces the probability by 1/2 or 1/4 for a bad outcome it might make sense. Gone are the days of Leave it to Beaver. We all need to become Beavers and build a dam from what is coming according to climate change experts.

I don't know why I even bother to respond PG. Think of fire mitigation like avalanche danger. Sound mitigation strategies are appropriate for certain conditions. And 50 degree C for multiple days followed by strong winds is about the equivalent of 7 degree slopes avalanching.

Firebreaks don't do much for conditions where long distance spotting occurs. And a row of sprinklers or a wall wouldn't do diddly shit.

[pureantigravity]

What is Australia doing in fire prone areas to combat wildfires crossing into neighborhoods?

from: https://www.unisdr.org/2000/campaign...tralia_eng.pdf

Preparation before the Bushfire Season

• Where possible, prepare a firebreak around the home.
• Trim branches so that they are well clear of the house.
• Clear roof gutters of leaves and twigs.
• Store wood, fuel and paints etc well clear of the house.
• Remove rubbish, leaf litter and plants that are close to the house
• Keep grassed areas (especially those around the house) short/ green.
• Fit wire screens to doors, windows and vents (to prevent burning embers from entering the house).
• Enclose any gaps, roof eaves and the under area of the house.
• Keep a ladder nearby for roof access (both inside and out).
• Have water hoses available and ensure they will reach all parts of the house and garden. Where water is not connected, obtain a high pressure pump.
• Decide on a household plan to either leave early or stay to protect the properly prepared home during the bushfire.

If a Bushfire Approaches

• Phone the bushfire brigade – do not assume they know about the fire.
• Fill baths, sinks, buckets etc with reserve water and turn off any gas and power.
• Remove curtains and move furniture away from windows.
• Wear protective clothing that covers the body area, solid boots or shoes, a hat or woollen balaclava and gloves.
• Plug downpipes with rags and fill all roof gutters with water. Hose down walls, garden etc on the sides of the house facing the ‘fire-front’ and watch for
spot fires.
• Inside, close all windows, doors and block crevices and gaps. When the fire front arrives, stay inside, away from windows, while it passes (usually 5-15
minutes).
• Quickly extinguish any fires, which may have started in, on, or under the house and check inside the roof cavity as well.
• If the house is alight and can’t be extinguished, move away to safe burnt ground. Don’t leave the area, wait for help. Listen to the battery radio for official information.

When Choosing a Homesite

• Flat ground is safer than sloping ground
• Gentle slopes are safer than steep slopes
• The bottom of the slope is safer than the top.
• Slopes facing east are safer than slopes facing north, northwest, west or south.
• Establish fire breaks (preferably ploughed) between any unmanaged grass or bushland/forest if a natural firebreak (such as a road or river) does not exist.
• The firebreak should encircle the homesite and the wider it is the better.
• Minimise grass fuel and fuel in timbered areas within 60 meters of the homesite by controlled burning and slashing.
• Position the homesite so that any forested areas are to the south and east of the site.
• Position high-moisture content trees on the hazard prone side of the site (between the hazard and the homesite) to act as a shield against radiated heat and flying sparks and embers.
• Put sheds to the south and east of the homesite and ensure the entrances face east.
• Isolate inflammable fuel from the homesite and hay shed

[Buster Highmen]

I don't have the slightest clue..

This is abundantly clear.

[TahoeJ]

PG is an expert on everything. Don’t bother with this nonsense.

[pureantigravity]

PG is an expert on everything. Don’t bother with this nonsense.

Just looked under your username. I'm also an expert jong LOL. I was only asking about mitigation strategies. There has to be some good intel and/or experimental solutions. I'm only asking to learn. This has to be something the Aussies know about since they really got a problem with these fires in their dry areas.

[AK47bp]

Why not have satellite powered laser beams shoot out the fires from space?

Simple solution, so why has the government been so reluctant to act?

Pro tip, guess who owns the satellites? Yup, it’s the Croatians. No surprise there.




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[TahoeJ]

Just looked under your username. I'm also an expert jong LOL. I was only asking about mitigation strategies. There has to be some good intel and/or experimental solutions. I'm only asking to learn. This has to be something the Aussies know about since they really got a problem with these fires in their dry areas.

I’ve had to evacuate my house twice in the last four years. We’re pretty well versed in out of control fires around these parts. Friends have lost homes.

I guess I take issue with the suggestion that Lytton could have done something about it.

[pureantigravity]

I’ve had to evacuate my house twice in the last four years. We’re pretty well versed in out of control fires around these parts. Friends have lost homes.

I guess I take issue with the suggestion that Lytton could have done something about it.

Where did I suggest that? We made a donation of household items and toiletries and clothing for Lytton today with the Katzie first nations community effort. If you are reading into it that I am blaming them, well, I'm not. This is what I wrote:

We love stopping at Lytton. We know people there. I'm really shocked to see this. I hope they keep hope. They must rebuild. I will personally see what I can do, donate clothes etc., to help in the next few weeks. Canada needs a strong rural small town network and more places like Lytton. And next time get a town fire suppression system godammit. All small towns in hot dry areas need to think of that now before this happens to them.

[TahoeJ]

And next time get a town fire suppression system godammit. All small towns in hot dry areas need to think of that now before this happens to them.

This is what I was referring to. In reality, there’s nothing they could have done.

[KQ]

Ground Temperatures Reached an Astounding 145 Degrees in the Pacific Northwest




Air temperatures during record-setting heat wave in the Pacific Northwest were bad enough. But the ground was on a whole other level.

Stunning new satellite imagery from the European Space Agency’s Sentinel-3 satellite shows ground temperatures reached as high as 145 degrees Fahrenheit (63 degrees Celsius) in Wenatchee, Washington. Apparently even the Earth we stand on isn’t safe from the climate crisis.

[AK47bp]

Ground Temperatures Reached an Astounding 145 Degrees in the Pacific Northwest




Air temperatures during record-setting heat wave in the Pacific Northwest were bad enough. But the ground was on a whole other level.

Stunning new satellite imagery from the European Space Agency’s Sentinel-3 satellite shows ground temperatures reached as high as 145 degrees Fahrenheit (63 degrees Celsius) in Wenatchee, Washington. Apparently even the Earth we stand on isn’t safe from the climate crisis.

This was my street Monday. Not even black top.




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[TBS]

I’ve had to evacuate my house twice in the last four years. We’re pretty well versed in out of control fires around these parts. Friends have lost homes.

I guess I take issue with the suggestion that Lytton could have done something about it.

Yea, not much you can do in a rural area when shit hits the fan.
Here are some photos from the Holiday Farms Fire last Labor Day in the McKenzie River valley. Was about 175k acres IIRC

The town of Blue River OR



Homes about 20 miles downstream on the McKenzie River



All that happened in about 12 hours. Without really high temps - just dry and windy.
No suppression resources were available

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Ground Temperatures Reached an Astounding 145 Degrees in the Pacific Northwest




Air temperatures during record-setting heat wave in the Pacific Northwest were bad enough. But the ground was on a whole other level.

Stunning new satellite imagery from the European Space Agency’s Sentinel-3 satellite shows ground temperatures reached as high as 145 degrees Fahrenheit (63 degrees Celsius) in Wenatchee, Washington. Apparently even the Earth we stand on isn’t safe from the climate crisis.

Is that really anomalous? It wasn’t even the hottest part of WA or the PNW here. If you google around surface temperatures can get that hot when it’s 100F. Seems like a bit of sensational “journalism” to me.

I’m not a climate change denier by any means.


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[Harry]

I was only asking...

Statement made by virtually every single internet troll or HOA troublemaker on planet earth.


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[LongShortLong]

PG may have some crackpot ideas, but those type of ideas are what lead to advances. Earlier crackpot ideas include dropping water from aircraft, bucket brigades, indoor fire sprinklers, fire codes, bare ground along roads and railroads, lighting backfires, professional firefighters, etc. All those things cost money and we decided to do them, despite naysayers at the time claiming it was ridiculous or too expensive (and some still do, maybe legitimately in some cases).

Outdoor fire sprinklers would raise air humidity and directly wet small fuels. Part of existing forest firefighting includes deploying sprinkler systems to protect buildings. Urban firefighting includes showering adjacent buildings to prevent fire spread.

I would not expect Lytton to be the first to try permanent outdoor fire sprinklers. I don't know the area, but would guess the expected recurrence interval for devastating fires is well over 1,000 years. Wouldn't be worth the investment there.

As for the railroads... my local utility is bankrupt and out $25 billion for wildfires caused by their equipment, and remains intermittently unable to provide service due to fire risk. In addition to the $25 billion lost, they'll spend billions more fixing the legacy problems. $25 billion would buy a few miles of walls. So this isn't a ridiculous idea either. (I'm open to the idea the utility should not be wholly responsible for the $25 billion, but someone's gotta pay - it's a real cost)

[pureantigravity]

(I'm open to the idea the utility should not be wholly responsible for the $25 billion, but someone's gotta pay - it's a real cost)

I'm open to the idea that the rail companies (CN and CP) should be sued if their operations caused the Lytton fire. They need to realize that their operations pose a hazard and take measures to reduce that hazard to acceptable levels.

Australia recommends people to do this when fires spread in their communities:

• Phone the bushfire brigade – do not assume they know about the fire.
• Fill baths, sinks, buckets etc with reserve water and turn off any gas and power.
• Remove curtains and move furniture away from windows.
• Wear protective clothing that covers the body area, solid boots or shoes, a hat or woollen balaclava and gloves.
• Plug downpipes with rags and fill all roof gutters with water. Hose down walls, garden etc on the sides of the house facing the ‘fire-front’ and watch for
spot fires.
• Inside, close all windows, doors and block crevices and gaps. When the fire front arrives, stay inside, away from windows, while it passes (usually 5-15
minutes).
• Quickly extinguish any fires, which may have started in, on, or under the house and check inside the roof cavity as well.
• If the house is alight and can’t be extinguished, move away to safe burnt ground. Don’t leave the area, wait for help. Listen to the battery radio for official information.

Lytton is a small compact town and not like the rural forested homes pictured in this thread (above). Agreed that trying to stopping a 1 in 1000 year fire is not a financially sound idea. Nevertheless, Peace of Mind is priceless and results in more productive communities.

edit: Here is a guy that stayed home to defend his house in Lytton, BC. His house is one of only 3 still standing in the town. Video is cued to interview with man. "We put a sprinkler on the roof right away and started soaking everything down."

https://youtu.be/JjMIAjoVKmQ?t=409

[Meadow Skipper]

Back when I was in the game, on the management side, wen there was a big season I would usually get a call from some citizen asking why we didn’t just make a big explosion to rob the fire of oxygen like Red Adair did for oil rig fires. I’d usually reply that the fire was XXthousand acres and ask how big an explosion would be needed there.

I just wanted to throw that out there before PG thought of it.

[XXX-er]

everyone always claims if they brought back the mars water bomber the fire would be out right away which is dumb

Any time i was in Lytton it was windy hot dry all you could do is run

its gona be a beautiful mid twentys and sunny here with no smoke

the heat bubble is keeping out the heat and smoke up here to the narth