Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[jgb@etree]

its fucking mind boggling to me someone would chose to wear a mask to virtue signal when science shows that they are largely ineffective.

Fify

so as you can well imagine Canadians are watching this and thinking "yeah maybe we wana leave that border closed for a bit more "

Wait, now I am confused. I thought borders are just arbitrary geopolitical boundaries and immigration controls are racist? Especially if you control or in any way limit free passage over a southern border.

Not like there are any Americans who really give a fuck what canucks think about American politics, but I suppose this means you've come around regarding the border wall.

MAGA

[riser4]

These are different scenarios- it is preposterous to compare one to the other.

Not hardly not never.

[Benny Profane]

Segregation will imprison you.

https://www.interfluidity.com/v2/7364.html

[jono]

science

Wrong thread. You want "get drunk and post as much as you can." Or you could cite sources, of course, that would be fun.

[Bunion 2020]

FB expert on....Science!

Niccole Henry: What don’t people understand about viruses? Viruses dislike UV light and heat. As the weather gets nicer, we are going to naturally see a reduction in all viruses. It’s science.

[westoxified]

Live virus in da poo, just like in 2003


https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26...DC_333-DM28664

so covfefe can be aerosolized in farts? well that’s just great.

[Ski220]

Priceless, timeless and apropos.

[Casey E]

so covfefe can be aerosolized in farts? well that’s just great.

It’s just a plot by the Kardashians to rebrand their undergarment lines as “butt masks”.

[jgb@etree]

Wrong thread. You want "get drunk and post as much as you can." Or you could cite sources, of course, that would be fun.

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-1342

Objective: To evaluate the effectiveness of surgical and cotton masks in filtering SARS–CoV-2.

Conclusion: Both surgical and cotton masks seem to be ineffective in preventing the dissemination of SARS–CoV-2 from the coughs of patients with COVID-19 to the environment and external mask surface.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...19-experts-say

Michael Osterholm, PhD, MPH, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP), who contributed to the paper along with Sundaresan Jayaraman, PhD, of the Georgia Institute of Technology in Atlanta, said in his weekly CIDRAP podcast yesterday that, because aerosols likely play an important role in coronavirus transmission, cloth masks will do little, if anything, to limit spread of the disease.

[mooseknuckles]

Has this one been reviewed by the committee here yet?

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577


Objective The aim of this study was to compare the efficacy of cloth masks to medical masks in hospital healthcare workers (HCWs). The null hypothesis is that there is no difference between medical masks and cloth masks.

Setting 14 secondary-level/tertiary-level hospitals in Hanoi, Vietnam.

Participants 1607 hospital HCWs aged ≥18 years working full-time in selected high-risk wards.

Intervention Hospital wards were randomised to: medical masks, cloth masks or a control group (usual practice, which included mask wearing). Participants used the mask on every shift for 4 consecutive weeks.

Main outcome measure Clinical respiratory illness (CRI), influenza-like illness (ILI) and laboratory-confirmed respiratory virus infection.

Results The rates of all infection outcomes were highest in the cloth mask arm, with the rate of ILI statistically significantly higher in the cloth mask arm (relative risk (RR)=13.00, 95% CI 1.69 to 100.07) compared with the medical mask arm. Cloth masks also had significantly higher rates of ILI compared with the control arm. An analysis by mask use showed ILI (RR=6.64, 95% CI 1.45 to 28.65) and laboratory-confirmed virus (RR=1.72, 95% CI 1.01 to 2.94) were significantly higher in the cloth masks group compared with the medical masks group. Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.

Conclusions This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally. However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated.

[Lone Star]

^^ this is about whether a mask protects the wearer.

[XXX-er]

Fify



Wait, now I am confused. I thought borders are just arbitrary geopolitical boundaries and immigration controls are racist? Especially if you control or in any way limit free passage over a southern border.

Not like there are any Americans who really give a fuck what canucks think about American politics, but I suppose this means you've come around regarding the border wall.

MAGA

I can tell you are confused cuz a Canada/USA wall was never a thing, a Mexico/USA wall will probably never get built either

I'm talking about the border remaining closed to keep out covid period

2 billion $ worth of goods still flow back and forth and even more flows back and forth to mexico the biggest trading " partner ? "

[MultiVerse]

Conclusion: Both surgical and cotton masks seem to be ineffective in preventing the dissemination of SARS–CoV-2 from the coughs of patients with COVID-19 to the environment and external mask surface.

Conclusions This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally. However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated.

Both studies looked at cloth masks in a clinic/hospital setting and found them ineffective compared with an N95. That's why, along with not wanting to create even more shortages for health care workers, early on many organizations like the CDC recommended against people wearing masks in public because initially all studies on mask usage were focused on their use for the protection of the wearer.

However, those studies did not answer the question of whether mask use provides source control. Newer ecological studies show masks are effective when it comes to slowing the spread. There’s compelling evidence from Japan, Hong Kong, and other East Asian countries showing masks work. The Czech Republic was the first non-Asian country to embrace universal masking on March 11, 2020 and to date they've only had 300 deaths. The Czech Republic is now loosening restrictions and starting to open up.

Cloth face masks work because they reduce droplet dispersal. The filtration efficiency (50-80%) isn't as good as an N95 but it is good enough outside a hospital setting to slow the spread especially when asymptomatic or presymptomatic infected individuals are infectious. If 80% of Americans wore masks COVID-19 Infections would plummet, according to the research.

https://rs-delve.github.io/reports/2...al-public.html

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2004.13553.pdf

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020...new-study-says

[Deebased]

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-1342

Objective: To evaluate the effectiveness of surgical and cotton masks in filtering SARS–CoV-2.

Conclusion: Both surgical and cotton masks seem to be ineffective in preventing the dissemination of SARS–CoV-2 from the coughs of patients with COVID-19 to the environment and external mask surface.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...19-experts-say

Michael Osterholm, PhD, MPH, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP), who contributed to the paper along with Sundaresan Jayaraman, PhD, of the Georgia Institute of Technology in Atlanta, said in his weekly CIDRAP podcast yesterday that, because aerosols likely play an important role in coronavirus transmission, cloth masks will do little, if anything, to limit spread of the disease.

WDYGAF?

In the realm of stupid shit theists and scientheists do, mask wearing doesn't break the top 100.

Linus had his security blanket, let whomever chooses have their security mask.

[Viva]

It’s just a plot by the Kardashians to rebrand their undergarment lines as “butt masks”.

She's gonna need one big fucking mask.

[MultiVerse]

WDYGAF?

In the realm of stupid shit theists and scientheists do, mask wearing doesn't break the top 100.

Linus had his security blanket, let whomever chooses have their security mask.

You're wrong. Masks work if enough people wear them.

In Japan, where nearly everyone is wearing a mask, there is no lockdown, still-active subways, and many businesses have remained open—including karaoke bars—although Japanese citizens and industries are practicing social distancing where they can, they've even avoided widespread contact tracing.

As of 5/18 Japan has seen 749 deaths while the United States has seen 92,188 deaths.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

[huckbucket]

You're wrong. Masks work if enough people wear them.

In Japan, where nearly everyone is wearing a mask, there is no lockdown, still-active subways, and many businesses have remained open—including karaoke bars—although Japanese citizens and industries are practicing social distancing where they can, they've even avoided widespread contact tracing.

As of 5/18 Japan has seen 749 deaths while the United States has seen 92,188 deaths.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

Dude. You're far too smart to waste your time on people who are so shockingly uninformed.

[huckbucket]

The Sweden experiment.

[jono]

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-1342

Objective: To evaluate the effectiveness of surgical and cotton masks in filtering SARS–CoV-2.

Conclusion: Both surgical and cotton masks seem to be ineffective in preventing the dissemination of SARS–CoV-2 from the coughs of patients with COVID-19 to the environment and external mask surface.

[Snip because appeal to authority op-ed not reviewed].

Their conclusion is not applicable to wearing a mask in public. They looked at coughing at a distance of 20 cm, which is quite close. The difference between a bad mask and a good one is that a good one works at close range (because it blocks that particle size). What even a bad mask will do is slow the flow so that the largest particles do not exit with enough energy to travel as far. And of course the very largest ones will be stopped, too. They did find less viral load using masks, just not zero. That's totally consistent with poor masks still having partial effectiveness.

That study shows you shouldn't use a bad mask if close contact with coughs is on the menu. It does not speak to whether "bad" masks work to reduce R0 in the general population.

More data from the lab that supports that:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21937487/

Under the pseudo-steady concentration environment, facemask protection was found to be 45 per cent, while under expiratory emissions, protection varied from 33 to 100 per cent. It was also observed that the separation between the source and the manikin was the most influential parameter affecting facemask protection.

Leaving the lab, the data from actual use is strongly supportive of masks:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3322931/

Always wearing a mask when going out was associated with a 70% reduction in risk compared with never wearing a mask. Wearing a mask intermittently was associated with a smaller yet significant reduction in risk.

Viral load matters in determining how often an exposure becomes a transmission. And lowering R0 is how we get to herd immunity (ETA: even with a vaccine). So every reduction in transmissions gets us closer. Better masks are obviously better. There are studies on that, too, and a thorough reading of your source (which I would do if it was applicable) should let you assess not only their technique but also which kind of mask was tested. Just calling it "cloth" is sloppy given the existence of studies like this:

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252

[huckbucket]

Have we talked about process meat being a beacon of light?

[seano732]

Have we talked about process meat being a beacon of light?

Whoever runs ^^^^^^ that account has been killing it during the Rona.........

[DBdude]

On the bright side, HDQ can cause heart issues and a certain unnamed world leader has a mild heart issue...one can only hope karma is real.

he whose name must not be mentioned minion might do very well by that

[Mokomahonah]

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-1342

Objective: To evaluate the effectiveness of surgical and cotton masks in filtering SARS–CoV-2.

Conclusion: Both surgical and cotton masks seem to be ineffective in preventing the dissemination of SARS–CoV-2 from the coughs of patients with COVID-19 to the environment and external mask surface.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...19-experts-say

Michael Osterholm, PhD, MPH, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP), who contributed to the paper along with Sundaresan Jayaraman, PhD, of the Georgia Institute of Technology in Atlanta, said in his weekly CIDRAP podcast yesterday that, because aerosols likely play an important role in coronavirus transmission, cloth masks will do little, if anything, to limit spread of the disease.

To add to what huckbucket and others have said.

Did you read it? Try reading it again. Dont just cherry pick the conclusion...

Paragraph before the conclusion:
"This experiment did not include N95 masks and does not reflect the actual transmission of infection from patients with COVID-19 wearing different types of masks. We do not know whether masks shorten the travel distance of droplets during coughing. Further study is needed to recommend whether face masks decrease transmission of virus from asymptomatic individuals or those with suspected COVID-19 who are not coughing."

Sent from my SM-J737T1 using Tapatalk

[Deebased]

You're wrong. Masks work if enough people wear them.

In Japan, where nearly everyone is wearing a mask, there is no lockdown, still-active subways, and many businesses have remained open—including karaoke bars—although Japanese citizens and industries are practicing social distancing where they can, they've even avoided widespread contact tracing.

As of 5/18 Japan has seen 749 deaths while the United States has seen 92,188 deaths.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

What percentage of the populace do you believe will wear a mask or social distance?

So long as that value is >1 R0 begins decreasing. Why do you think masks are an all or nothing solution?

[MultiVerse]

Dude. You're far too smart to waste your time on people who are so shockingly uninformed.

The Sweden experiment.

It’s a dilemma. Everyone’s future depends critically on the course of the disease. Barring a technological breakthrough like a vaccine or a treatment America’s economic recovery will depend on trust.

To a lot of people herd immunity sounds like a promising alternative to strategies dependent on social cohesion. I suspect a lot of the people promoting herd immunity are behaving quite cautiously staying at home waiting until it arrives. Per Benny’s link, some might be uninformed but others are hoping segregation will set them free.

“The game of mortal attrition could last a long time. Months or years after the transit workers have taken their punch, your little world could still be ripe for an outbreak, if you all come out to play. So you won’t, not until there’s a vaccine or you are compelled by circumstance. Segregation will have helped to protect you, as it usually does. But this time, it will also imprison you.”

If all the scorn for masks, the attacks on scientists, the hate for global institutions, blaming China—regardless of their issues or blunders—is mostly signaling tribal affiliation and the majority are waiting just like everyone else to see what the optimal strategy is then we end up in a lingering reverse prisoner's dilemma of sorts with everyone who has a choice hoping everyone else blinks first.