OFFICIAL 2018 MLB THREAD

**ex-powderbroker** · 01-23-2019, 07:48 PM

how many gold gloves though

**plugboots** · 01-23-2019, 07:58 PM

Schilling will get in because of the sock, and the sock story will be highlighted, and the sock will be there, and Joe Buck will be wearing it.

**iceman** · 01-23-2019, 08:23 PM

Sock's already there, or at least it was on display there in I guess 2012 or so when we went.

**BigDaddy** · 01-23-2019, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

agree.

Grew up a Mets fan, so my second favorite team in all of baseball is whoever is playing the Yankees. But damn, hard to not be impressed as fuck with Mariano.

In 140+ innings of postseason ball -- the equivalent of 20 solid starts -- he had a .70 ERA. Redonkulous. Pure greatness, the likes of which we may never see again.

Truth...

**BigDaddy** · 01-23-2019, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by iceman

I do think the bar has been moved. It's probably because they got worried about my plan to open The Hall of Pretty Good down in Oneonta. We would be right there off I-88, we would've hurt their business model.

Soccer HOF is in Oneonta... Burger King, no less. At least that's how I remember it.

**Sirshredalot** · 01-23-2019, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by flowing alpy

still, voter that left jr off first ballot is a moron and should have his privilege to vote in the modern player, revoked.

Why? I had no issue with the cutesie nobody gets 100 percent thing. It never kept anyone deserving out. And there has been a backlog of over 10 worthy guys for a while. I think if I had the vote in recent years, I would've left off the shoo-ins in order to advance the candidacy of the Trammels of the world.

I think it's funny that Mussina went in before Schilling. For my money (and most people's money, probably), Schilling was the better pitcher. He's such a douchebag in retirement, though. I'm guessing most people just don't want to hear him speak at Cooperstown. That'll be a fucking train wreck.

**iceman** · 01-23-2019, 10:20 PM

Schill's induction speech at the Hall. Yikes.

**I've seen black diamonds!** · 01-23-2019, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by Sirshredalot

I think if I had the vote in recent years, I would've left off the shoo-ins in order to advance the candidacy of the Trammels of the world.

Lou Whitaker. Better than Trammel. Even less appreciated. Both way better than contemporary Andre Dawson

**Brock Landers** · 01-23-2019, 11:04 PM

All very good players. Hall of very good.

Get out of here with that shit. Mike Mussina was great??? Not everyone should get a medal.

**Sirshredalot** · 01-23-2019, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by iceman

Schill's induction speech at the Hall. Yikes.

The best part of that train wreck is going to be Jeter sitting there, trying to keep a straight face as the unhinged diatribe hits the 90 minute mark.

Originally Posted by Brock Landers

All very good players. Hall of very good.

Get out of here with that shit. Mike Mussina was great??? Not everyone should get a medal.

Mussina was legitimately the second-best pitcher in the AL for a long time. It just so happens that it was a time when Pedro was having the most dominant peak of any pitcher in history and offense was through the roof. So I get the argument for his inclusion, though I prefer the players who were more dominant rather than steady, very good, and durable, too.

**Brock Landers** · 01-23-2019, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by Sirshredalot

The best part of that train wreck is going to be Jeter sitting there, trying to keep a straight face as the unhinged diatribe hits the 90 minute mark.

Mussina was legitimately the second-best pitcher in the AL for a long time. It just so happens that it was a time when Pedro was having the most dominant peak of any pitcher in history and offense was through the roof. So I get the argument for his inclusion, though I prefer the players who were more dominant rather than steady, very good, and durable, too.

Mussina came in second for the cy young voting a whopping 1 time. Never won. Very good pitcher. Starting pitcher in the hall of very good.

Give me the pitchers routinely winning cy youngs or coming in top 3 for a somewhat extended time. Won a title. Did anything at all besides be very good for a somewhat long time.

All those pitchers coming ahead of Mussina? Elect them. Clemens? Randy Johnson (duh). David Cone? Al Leiter? Kevin Appier? Where do you draw the line

**Danno** · 01-24-2019, 09:06 AM

8 top 6 CYA finishes
11 seasons of top 10 ERA
7 gold gloves

He was one of the best pitchers in the league for a very long time. That's Hall of Fame worthy in my book.

**ex-powderbroker** · 01-24-2019, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Brock Landers

Mussina came in second for the cy young voting a whopping 1 time. Never won. Very good pitcher. Starting pitcher in the hall of very good.

Give me the pitchers routinely winning cy youngs or coming in top 3 for a somewhat extended time. Won a title. Did anything at all besides be very good for a somewhat long time.

All those pitchers coming ahead of Mussina? Elect them. Clemens? Randy Johnson (duh). David Cone? Al Leiter? Kevin Appier? Where do you draw the line

Cone was great at his peak(s) but lacked consistency which Mussina had tons of. Leiter wasn't really on anyone's radar as a HOF, Appier played for maybe crappy teams that could have suppressed his win total and I don't think he can make a blyleven case.

But really, Morris with his crappy era+ drove a bus through the door for someone like Moose who was objectively very good (123+ over a long career).

**half-fast** · 01-24-2019, 10:31 AM

Mussina:
career Baseball-Reference WAR of 82.9 — 18th among pitchers since 1900 — is above the average WAR of starting pitchers in the Hall of Fame (73.4).

270 wins, 2,813 strikeouts

one of only 16 pitchers in the modern era to end his career with at least one hundred more wins than losses. He’s also one of 15 pitchers to strikeout at least 2,000 more hitters than he walked. He’s one of only five pitchers to win at least 10 games a season for 17 straight seasons and the only one to do it entirely in the American League.

one of only two pitchers to retire after a 20-win season. The other is Sandy Koufax.

Did it all in the AL east and in hitter's parks

**Sirshredalot** · 01-24-2019, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by half-fast

Mussina:
career Baseball-Reference WAR of 82.9 — 18th among pitchers since 1900 — is above the average WAR of starting pitchers in the Hall of Fame (73.4).

270 wins, 2,813 strikeouts

one of only 16 pitchers in the modern era to end his career with at least one hundred more wins than losses. He’s also one of 15 pitchers to strikeout at least 2,000 more hitters than he walked. He’s one of only five pitchers to win at least 10 games a season for 17 straight seasons and the only one to do it entirely in the American League.

one of only two pitchers to retire after a 20-win season. The other is Sandy Koufax.

Did it all in the AL east and in hitter's parks

Yeah, I mean, his case is really made by WAR and ERA+ to give him credit for the tough offensive environment. Aesthetically, I prefer the players who were really dominant for five years and then fall apart over the guys like Mussina. But I understand his case for the hall and I don't begrudge him it.

**Brock Landers** · 01-24-2019, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Sirshredalot

Yeah, I mean, his case is really made by WAR and ERA+ to give him credit for the tough offensive environment. Aesthetically, I prefer the players who were really dominant for five years and then fall apart over the guys like Mussina. But I understand his case for the hall and I don't begrudge him it.

I agree. I don’t hate Mussina in there, I just feel like the threshold is getting to lesser players. Biggio.

The Appier comparison is a little tongue in cheek. On the spectrum mussina is somewhere between Pedro and Appier. And I think the HOF line should be closer to Pedro than Appier.

**Self Jupiter** · 01-24-2019, 11:38 AM

Biggio was the tip of the iceberg

**BigDaddy** · 01-24-2019, 11:39 AM

Wow... just realized that there are only 79 pitchers in the HOF: https://baseballhall.org/discover-mo...rs-by-position

Only 1% of all ball players get in. You'd think that the more they let in, the better for business?

**Sirshredalot** · 01-24-2019, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Self Jupiter

Biggio was the tip of the iceberg

Biggio is the fifteenth-best second baseman in MLB history by WAR, just behind Sandberg and ahead of Robinson. I don't understand why he's controversial in some folks' minds.

**Self Jupiter** · 01-24-2019, 01:19 PM

I think he represents the career achiever vs dominant player distinction, and a player who got in for ‘not being a steroid guy’ while many ‘steroid guys’ (yes, many of whom were caught) were left off ballots, allowing him in.

**Sirshredalot** · 01-24-2019, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by Self Jupiter

I think he represents the career achiever vs dominant player distinction, and a player who got in for ‘not being a steroid guy’ while many ‘steroid guys’ (yes, many of whom were caught) were left off ballots, allowing him in.

I know I've had the Biggio discussion on here before. He was durable and played a long time, but he generated all his WAR at his peak when he was leading the league in OBP and scoring 150 runs per season. Maybe the fossils let him in because he played forever and got 3,000 hits, but he was probably deserving if he'd retired 3 or 4 years earlier (and maybe those late-career years tarnished his memory for some of us. He was incredible in the mid-1990s.)

It'll be interesting to see how the Hall voters treat Utley, who has had a similar career. And it's too bad that Pedroia looks done. If he could've hung on for another 4 or 5 good seasons, he would've had a nice case.

The Cooperstown voters are tough on second basemen.

**Self Jupiter** · 01-24-2019, 02:02 PM

Compelling arguments for sure. I just don’t want it to turn into the NFL hof where so many get in. Or the Celtics rafters, who are going to have to issue 3 digit player numbers to field a team.

**AdironRider** · 01-24-2019, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

8 top 6 CYA finishes
11 seasons of top 10 ERA
7 gold gloves

He was one of the best pitchers in the league for a very long time. That's Hall of Fame worthy in my book.

I mean, he's like top of the class in the hall of very good, but no one feared Mussina on the mound ever.

**Sirshredalot** · 01-24-2019, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Self Jupiter

Compelling arguments for sure. I just don’t want it to turn into the NFL hof where so many get in. Or the Celtics rafters, who are going to have to issue 3 digit player numbers to field a team.

Yep. I hear that.