Electric Bike Thread

[ill-advised strategy]

, too much for bikey situations, too little for car-ey situations.

What to do with Hugo?....

[HankScorpio]

What to do with Hugo?....

“Too crazy for boys town, to much of a boy for crazy town.”


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[grinch]

There is a large contingency of people that dislike anything with two wheels that goes into the forest. And while they dislike mountain bikes, they fucking hate dirt bikes. Blurring the line between mountain bikes and dirt bikes is terrible for mtb access. Why? Because those two wheeled haters are well organized, well funded, and they wrote the laws and regulations regarding trail access issues. It's going to take a generational shift for that to change, and I'm not willing to give up even more trail access just because some guy wants to get to the top of the climb easier.

Personally, I don't really give a shit if people ride ebikes as long as they stick to moto legal trails. I view them kind of like razor scooters: I think most of the people that ride them are goobers, but whatever, they're having fun. But they're not mountain bikes, and calling them mountain bikes jeopardizes access for everyone.

Too funny. Julian Absalon, Brendan Fairclough, Sam Pilgrim, Jerome Clementz, Johann, Remi, MattHunter, Kenny Smith all “goobers” and I’m sure they’d all be completely happy riding moto trails and all this hate on here is sure to stop the production and sales of e bikes. Nothing to worry about. Carry on
Oh ya slight reminder, that name list covers elite athletes in xc, dh, enduro, freeride and freestyle but ya goobers. If they weren’t sponsored and have to wear a kit and helmet, I’m sure they’d be in jeans and no helmet. You got this dialed

[toast2266]

Too funny. Julian Absalon, Brendan Fairclough, Sam Pilgrim, Jerome Clementz, Johann, Remi, MattHunter, Kenny Smith all “goobers” and I’m sure they’d all be completely happy riding moto trails and all this hate on here is sure to stop the production and sales of e bikes. Nothing to worry about. Carry on
Oh ya slight reminder, that name list covers elite athletes in xc, dh, enduro, freeride and freestyle but ya goobers. If they weren’t sponsored and have to wear a kit and helmet, I’m sure they’d be in jeans and no helmet. You got this dialed

You realize their employers are making them ride those bikes, right? That's a bit different.

[grinch]

You realize their employers are making them ride those bikes, right? That's a bit different.

That’s complete bullshit and they’ve said as much.
Pilgrim takes his ebike instead of his sponsored jump bike in situations where you’d think he’d be on his jump bike. Both absalon’s use there’s extensively. Julian is retired and chooses to use most often. Kenny Smith said he wanted more of his buds to get one for a posse. Matt Hunters vital interview was honest in favor and even called out most commenters as dicks. Brendan hasn’t even posted pics on one. It’s all been stated by other riders/industry people how much he rides it and digs it. It’s been known for a long time how much Nico, Jerome, and Fabian love them and have used them for training and grab them whenever they can
This isn’t even up for debate. Amazed at how you could even say that. Makes zero sense. Maybe if you haven’t seen any of their posts or obvious enthusiasm , like zero posts. Crazy talk. Bubble ville

[toast2266]

And Logan Bingelli honestly believes that khs makes the best bikes on the planet. Because he said so. And he's honest. You can really sense his enthusiasm.

[grinch]

And Logan Bingelli honestly believes that khs makes the best bikes on the planet. Because he said so. And he's honest. You can really sense his enthusiasm.

I like Logan but he doesn’t have the choice like the top top guys do. All the ones I mentioned are top names. They can run whatever the fuck they want. I can guarantee most of the ones I mentioned really like them and I bet the other ones ,that I can’t say for sure, do as well. Johann and Remi and Kenny have to pump sponsors a bit more than the others but I bet they dig them big time.
Fuck Absalon is the greatest xc racer of all time at the moment and he can ride whatever the duck he wants, even before he retired, and he’s all about them. Tough to admit eh

[toast2266]

And puff daddy actually uses Proactiv, and Snoop has spent a significant portion of his personal wealth on hot pockets. They're rich as fuck, so there's no reason they would endorse a product that they didn't truly believe in.

[grinch]

Compares p diddy to J Absalon= laughable

You know you’re full of shit, I know you’re full of shit, you know that I know you’re full of shit. Why not just cut the bs?

[toast2266]

Apparently liking ebikes also means you don't understand how pro / celebrity endorsements work. Which I suppose would be an anticipated trait of a goober.

[grinch]

Everyone I know that’s been in the industry or kicking around the bike community for eons, and has nothing to prove, is in favour of them. “Nothing to prove” being the deciding factor it would seem. All the haters in here are just puffing their chests “I build x amount of trail”, “ I climbed up x amount of vert “ , “ I’ve attended x amount of advocacy meetings” , “these lower class goobers in their jeans and no helmets”. Can we just give a cookie to all you elitist fkn douchnozzles and go about having fun on our bikes like the rest of the world. Apparently it sucks living in a shithole country

[Shredhead]

Trouble is, everyone’s a goober sometimes.

[toast2266]

Trouble is, everyone’s a goober sometimes.

Truth.

[TahoeJ]

Cool man. I’m not trying to be an authority over here. Just conversating. I’m surprised that adding demos to the sport, particularly potentially influential ones, categorically spells doom. I think you might be lacking a bit of perspective, the same way I lack actual experience fighting for trail access out west. I have nothing to prove here. By all means, keep extolling the mythical qualities of the MTB dirtbag.

There are no golf course handshakes that supercede NEPA lawsuits.

I’m not lacking any perspective at all - I told you my wife works for the most symbolic open space trail battleground in the country, the home of mountain biking. Dirtbag has nothing to do with it, that’s irrelevant. Plenty of 6, 7 and 8 figure salaries fighting for access.

Honestly ... where did you even get that shit?

[Bunion 2020]

Everyone I know that’s been in the industry or kicking around the bike community for eons, and has nothing to prove, is in favour of them.

Slight point of order.

The "Industry" you speak of is about selling a product and if that product is a new/different product with the potential to make the "Industry" a lot more money then the "Industry" does not care fuck all about some people losing access to trails within their area.

Riddle me this, where is the "Industry" when it comes to fighting for access or more importantly to me, for preferred alternatives in the case of travel plan re-assessments like the one in my neck of the woods? As far as I can tell they are absent the field.

[jono]

I really wish the world was the way Mustonen described it. Elitism is kind of what created the whole access mess, and the similarity between users is the logical argument for mountain bike access in most contested areas.

Looking from the outside, a rational person can certainly be forgiven for assuming that like users could get along and make common cause. Hell, it even happens around here on non-federal ("front country") lands where "W" is off the table and access of any kind is widely appreciated. If the wildernuts were rational we could all be on the same page on federal lands which would be better protected by more defenders. If only.

Mustonen, what you're missing here is that the elitism is baked in to the access debate where Wilderness, Recommended Wilderness, Wilderness Study Area and various forms of "primitive" land are being managed by the USFS, BLM and NPS. It comes from the hikers and equestrians who have used every trick available to kick out every possible wheeled object (including wheeled coolers, carts, wheelbarrows etc.) If you're not tramping through with your walking sticks (for lopping the flowers) or carrying in your massive camp on a mule train you're not worthy. This goes back to 1984 and even before. What you're witnessing here from mountain bikers is not a product of elitism, it's a product of having spent years making the exact point you make but with respect to human powered bicycles being dramatically less impactful than horses and yet being kicked out of a huge number of trails. Even the hikers may only be elitists of convenience: anything to kick out others and thus better privatize the public lands. There's a lot of bullshit in the background on this topic.

Point is, the legal root is that the Wilderness Act specifies no motorized/mechanized transportation, so absolutely no assistance from non-living power sources. RW, WSA etc get managed the same way and become weapons by which to kick out bikes. Adding motors helps no one. But good luck to the e-bikers, may they get as many new trails built as possible.

[kootenayskier]

The physical and technical challenge of riding a human powered mountain bike is fundamental to the experience that many of us value, to how trails are designed, managed, and maintained, and to the relationships we have with funders, landowners and other trail users. Adding a motor creates existential challenges to each, and the the people who just want to make it easier to get up the hill, and the companies that just want to find ways to sell more shit, are not coming up with solutions, just heaping problems on the small group of people who’s passion and hard work creates and maintains access to the trails we enjoy. I’m fine with ebikes for the physically handicapped, but otherwise and unless you’re neck deep in solving the aforementioned issues, I suggest you wake up to your self-indulgence.

[Mustonen]

There are no golf course handshakes that supercede NEPA lawsuits.

I’m not lacking any perspective at all - I told you my wife works for the most symbolic open space trail battleground in the country, the home of mountain biking. Dirtbag has nothing to do with it, that’s irrelevant. Plenty of 6, 7 and 8 figure salaries fighting for access.

Honestly ... where did you even get that shit?

Sounds like you have it all figured out.

Dirtbag was an early throwaway comment that was only meant to be illustrative (and a tad hyperbolic), but LeeLau jumped on it and ran and sang the song of the dirtbag (douchebag?). Sorry to lump you two together.

[rod9301]

The physical and technical challenge of riding a human powered mountain bike is fundamental to the experience that many of us value, to how trails are designed, managed, and maintained, and to the relationships we have with funders, landowners and other trail users. Adding a motor creates existential challenges to each, and the the people who just want to make it easier to get up the hill, and the companies that just want to find ways to sell more shit, are not coming up with solutions, just heaping problems on the small group of people who’s passion and hard work creates and maintains access to the trails we enjoy. I’m fine with ebikes for the physically handicapped, but otherwise and unless you’re neck deep in solving the aforementioned issues, I suggest you wake up to your self-indulgence.

The train has already left the station.

Ebikes are here to stay.
Just look at Europe, you see then everywhere. And I'm talking about mountain bikes.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using TGR Forums mobile app

[Mustonen]

This is all interesting. For like the fourth time, I really don’t profess to know anything on the topic. I’m just arguing on the internet. However, I think the way this is framed precludes expansion or even continuation of access. You’re fighting for table scraps instead of fighting for a seat at the table. Maybe that’s just the only reality that will ever be available, but that sucks, and it allows you to be marginalized forever. Sometimes the paradigm shifting a bit is a good thing if you allow it to reframe the argument.

[TahoeJ]

Sounds like you have it all figured out.

Dirtbag was an early throwaway comment that was only meant to be illustrative (and a tad hyperbolic), but LeeLau jumped on it and ran and sang the song of the dirtbag (douchebag?). Sorry to lump you two together.

Didn’t mean to be quite so reactive - had just hosted a party at my house and there was a fair amount of wine flowing. Anyway, it sucks, but yeah, no matter who gets into ebikes they will only hurt access not help it. Unless a bunch of influential wilderness hikers start using them, which is far from likely (some of those nutjobs would rather cut off their own legs than ride on two wheels).

[gravitylover]

The further this anti-ebike argument goes the more I look forward to the generational shift that has to happen within the next 10-20 years when all of these cranky, crusty, anti fun old white folk age out of the political arena and some of the legislation can start to turn back to something more rational than the get out of my yard sentiment that brought us to this point.

[LeeLau]

The further this anti-ebike argument goes the more I look forward to the generational shift that has to happen within the next 10-20 years when all of these cranky, crusty, anti fun old white folk age out of the political arena and some of the legislation can start to turn back to something more rational than the get out of my yard sentiment that brought us to this point.

I hope that's what will happen. In the western US and Canada the HOHA crowd really are dogmatic older types.

People who have experience believe that ebikes, at present, will hurt trail access. I think things will change and for the better. But it will change at land manager speed which means decades. It took 15 -20 years for us ( bike advocates) for us to frame mtbs as hikers on 2 wheels who would be respectful trail users.

I view the Mustonen and the Grinch's of the world as noise. The phenomenon of the uninformed extrapolating from guesswork and, at best, limited datasets, to flap on the Internet. It doesn't hurt as Internet discussions do nothing. The only thing that helps with trail access is tedious boots on ground or meeting room (which neither social media or forum chatter hurts or helps No offence to Mustonen or Grinch, you personify the uninformed ultimately passive consumer.

[Bunion 2020]

Ebikes are here to stay.
Just look at Europe, you see then everywhere. And I'm talking about mountain bikes.

Unfortunately American public land use management (or even the perception of riding a bicycle or E-bike) is not remotely close to that of Europe. Apples VS Aardvarks.

[joetron]

Everyone I know that’s been in the industry or kicking around the bike community for eons, and has nothing to prove, is in favour of them. “Nothing to prove” being the deciding factor it would seem. All the haters in here are just puffing their chests “I build x amount of trail”, “ I climbed up x amount of vert “ , “ I’ve attended x amount of advocacy meetings” , “these lower class goobers in their jeans and no helmets”. Can we just give a cookie to all you elitist fkn douchnozzles and go about having fun on our bikes like the rest of the world. Apparently it sucks living in a shithole country

I work in the industry and talk to shop owners, managers, wrenches and other non-retail industry folks every day. I have a different experience.
Most see them as an annoying bubble product being foist upon us by large industry players and we’re unsure of where and how this will all shake out. The market will ultimately decide, and the general feeing is that further cleaving the $5k+ bike market with another niche product which happens to be heavier, more complicated and lacking standardization and fraught with access issues is not a winning combo.
The dangers posed to overall mtb access are real and backlashes to E-bikes if/when existing mtb access is reduced because land managers don’t want to or can’t enforce fine toothed rules about motor classes/speeds/strengths, are noted by those in the industry I talk to regarding strategic business decisions.
Universal non-motorized trail access is out of the question, so it’s a matter of sorting out the clearest, easily enforceable rules and guidelines for usage. The default here is limiting them to motorized trails. I’m not sure why that is such an issue.

All those pros you mention would not be riding them if they were not given them for free.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums