ON3P SKIS Discussion

[sf]

You definitely give up some high end stability. The flex profile is rounder, so it floats at slower speeds, so at speed the ski is just flexing more. The scenario I see issues is in heavy or hard variable snow. It won't punch through as a stock ski will. That said, I think our "tour" flex is still pretty stable if you take a look at the industry as a whole.

How would using the softer fiberglass in a custom compare to stock/tour? Especially in 108 wrens and BGs?

[iggyskier]

Could you make one more Kartel 108 186 since you sold the last one yesterday? ;-)

Thanks for the codes, I may grab a Wren instead, what is the discount?

That was sort of my mental sale trigger, as it has been our best selling ski/size to date. I didn't want to sell a single pair on sale this year .

Discounts vary by model. Similar to spring sales in the past.

[iggyskier]

How would using the softer fiberglass in a custom compare to stock/tour? Especially in 108 wrens and BGs?

Flex would be sort of in between the two. Profile isn't as round, as the core isn't thinned out as much, but the 19oz glass has lighter 0's and retain less epoxy, so you notice it. Same 45's, so pretty similar on the torsionally end.

A lot of our team guys are on stock carbon but 19oz fiberglass Kartel 108 as it does make them lighter & more playful without some of the high end stability loss of the tour skis.

Haven't done a lot of light glass customs in the BG - some in the Wren. Normally, on the directional skis, it is for people who are sort of in-between sizes and want to go longer with a softer flex.

[iggyskier]

Oh and have 6 pairs of SuperGoats in stock now. All Stiff flex. The Wren ones (not offered in first round) might be my favorite topsheets on it thus far.

[sf]

Haven't done a lot of light glass customs in the BG - some in the Wren. Normally, on the directional skis, it is for people who are sort of in-between sizes and want to go longer with a softer flex.

Thanks. On the 108s that sounds like me. 189 for a bit more float.

Currently have both 186 RES BGs and 191 RES tour BGs. Looking to combine them in a 189, but not really interested in the small increase in stiffness some say the asym brings. Too much tight terrain. On the other hand, I feel that the tours (similar to current Steeple?) are a bit too soft for inbounds.

[jackattack]

SuperGoat sort of showed us we can do small runs if there is interest. Skinny stock & tour RES skis get made if the interest is there to match. We kept all the tooling. Just not enough sales to justify stocking them in the main line.

189 Skinny Billy is something I could definitely get behind.

[mr_pretzel]

Flex would be sort of in between the two. Profile isn't as round, as the core isn't thinned out as much, but the 19oz glass has lighter 0's and retain less epoxy, so you notice it. Same 45's, so pretty similar on the torsionally end.

A lot of our team guys are on stock carbon but 19oz fiberglass Kartel 108 as it does make them lighter & more playful without some of the high end stability loss of the tour skis.

Haven't done a lot of light glass customs in the BG - some in the Wren. Normally, on the directional skis, it is for people who are sort of in-between sizes and want to go longer with a softer flex.

On the topic of changing the fiberglass.

How would going for the 22oz in the k116 work? Would that add enough beef, or would you also add extra carbon?

[auvgeek]

Currently have both 186 RES BGs and 191 RES tour BGs. Looking to combine them in a 189, but not really interested in the small increase in stiffness some say the asym brings. Too much tight terrain. On the other hand, I feel that the tours (similar to current Steeple?) are a bit too soft for inbounds.

Scott can give you a better recommendation of how he'd build something to fit that description regarding carbon vs fiberglass, but the custom ski builder lets you build a BG with softer carbon and 22 oz glass. Could be a better solution than light glass for softening, unless you specifically wanted to lighten it also. If that's the case, you could maybe do light glass with extra carbon to get something softer than stock but not by much.

Just saying I bet ON3P can build you something you'll love.

[TAFKALVS]

189 Skinny Billy is something I could definitely get behind.

With the metal layup. It'd be ultimate upside wind crust shit snow destroyer.

[kid-kapow]

142/114/130 - 28.5m in 184cm.

dammit. That sounds pretty much like my perfect 114mm ski. I was a bit worried that it would reach Lib widths up front/in the rear, but i obviously should've known better by now The BGs and i have not been a perfect match so far, so perhaps the w114 as a main soft snow ski with the BGs as tree killers will be a fun combo I think i will go down a custom route with the w114, so i will pop you guys an email

That being said, those on sale wren98s do look mighty, mighty tempting! Alas/thank god for the shipping restrictons

i know i've said so before, but it bears repeating - man oh man the current year wren108s are skimaking perfection! (even if you update them for next year )

thanks for the spectacular transparence Iggy!

[sf]

Flex would be sort of in between the two. Profile isn't as round, as the core isn't thinned out as much, but the 19oz glass has lighter 0's and retain less epoxy, so you notice it. Same 45's, so pretty similar on the torsionally end.

A lot of our team guys are on stock carbon but 19oz fiberglass Kartel 108 as it does make them lighter & more playful without some of the high end stability loss of the tour skis.

Haven't done a lot of light glass customs in the BG - some in the Wren. Normally, on the directional skis, it is for people who are sort of in-between sizes and want to go longer with a softer flex.

Scott can give you a better recommendation of how he'd build something to fit that description regarding carbon vs fiberglass, but the custom ski builder lets you build a BG with softer carbon and 22 oz glass. Could be a better solution than light glass for softening, unless you specifically wanted to lighten it also. If that's the case, you could maybe do light glass with extra carbon to get something softer than stock but not by much.

Just saying I bet ON3P can build you something you'll love.

Yeah......I've had/have 5 pairs of ON3Ps and never realized that the stock has carbon in it. Weight is not really an issue, so maybe softer carbon is the way to go.

[Norseman]

189 Skinny Billy is something I could definitely get behind.

With the metal layup. It'd be ultimate upside wind crust shit snow destroyer.

Disagree here.

Rocker profile needs to match the width. This was my beef with the Steeple 102. It had the same rocker shapes tip/tail as the BG, but not enough width to float well and not enough edge length to be stable on firm.

Awkward middle ground that was later fixed by increasing width, and probably with other tweaks that I stopped paying attention to after moving in a different direction for my touring boards.

Same observation has been made here recently (surprise!) with folks trying -10mm Praxis in a few models... they aren't as good as the purpose-built stock options on either side of their width.

Its fun to have the option to customize, but I'm inclined to trust the builders to optimize the shape, especially after solid experiments like the Steeple line.

New line looks awesome. Great work Scott & crew.

[steveski]

Disagree here.

Rocker profile needs to match the width. This was my beef with the Steeple 102. It had the same rocker shapes tip/tail as the BG, but not enough width to float well and not enough edge length to be stable on firm.

Awkward middle ground that was later fixed by increasing width, and probably with other tweaks that I stopped paying attention to after moving in a different direction for my touring boards.

Same observation has been made here recently (surprise!) with folks trying -10mm Praxis in a few models... they aren't as good as the purpose-built stock options on either side of their width.

Its fun to have the option to customize, but I'm inclined to trust the builders to optimize the shape, especially after solid experiments like the Steeple line.

Definitely keeping this in mind when thinking of the 105± waist range. Lots of ideas that seem good on paper floating around here but best to hear real world feedback from people who have skied reduced width skis.

[TAFKALVS]

Disagree here.

Rocker profile needs to match the width. This was my beef with the Steeple 102. It had the same rocker shapes tip/tail as the BG, but not enough width to float well and not enough edge length to be stable on firm.

Awkward middle ground that was later fixed by increasing width, and probably with other tweaks that I stopped paying attention to after moving in a different direction for my touring boards.

Same observation has been made here recently (surprise!) with folks trying -10mm Praxis in a few models... they aren't as good as the purpose-built stock options on either side of their width.

Its fun to have the option to customize, but I'm inclined to trust the builders to optimize the shape, especially after solid experiments like the Steeple line.

New line looks awesome. Great work Scott & crew.

I skied the morning on Joe's Skinny BillyGoats at Bridger. I don't disagree with your thoughts, I'd say the skinny goat had similar issues, however the shape would work great in soft funky in my opinion. My main issue is the flex seemed soft in that narrow width. Maybe that was a function of too much rocker or maybe the core needs to be beefed up a bit... not sure.

[Kootenai]

Disagree here.

Rocker profile needs to match the width. This was my beef with the Steeple 102. It had the same rocker shapes tip/tail as the BG, but not enough width to float well and not enough edge length to be stable on firm.

Awkward middle ground that was later fixed by increasing width, and probably with other tweaks that I stopped paying attention to after moving in a different direction for my touring boards.

Same observation has been made here recently (surprise!) with folks trying -10mm Praxis in a few models... they aren't as good as the purpose-built stock options on either side of their width.

Its fun to have the option to customize, but I'm inclined to trust the builders to optimize the shape, especially after solid experiments like the Steeple line.

New line looks awesome. Great work Scott & crew.

Nice summary. I have your 102’s and I agree with the effective edge being less than ideal for stiff piste. And deeper than 8” I reach for my Lotus. And, I am exceedingly impressed with the way those 102’s work in the sub 10” storms. Especially if I am the trail-breaker on the up.

[auvgeek]

Disagree here.

Rocker profile needs to match the width. This was my beef with the Steeple 102. It had the same rocker shapes tip/tail as the BG, but not enough width to float well and not enough edge length to be stable on firm.

Awkward middle ground that was later fixed by increasing width, and probably with other tweaks that I stopped paying attention to after moving in a different direction for my touring boards.

Same observation has been made here recently (surprise!) with folks trying -10mm Praxis in a few models... they aren't as good as the purpose-built stock options on either side of their width.

Its fun to have the option to customize, but I'm inclined to trust the builders to optimize the shape, especially after solid experiments like the Steeple line.

100% agree here. It's definitely a sentiment that we and others have talked about for years but it gets lost because there's only so many times you can say the same thing before sounding like a broken record.

I wonder if a reason this "pow shape in a mid-fat width" appeals to some people (certainly not all) is they confuse the tool with the nail -- they love how a certain ski makes conditions feel effortless, and they want to replicate that feeling in less ideal conditions.

That said, I still think a -10 mm Praxis RX makes sense on paper because that design isn't really soft-snow specific and it's hard to find a progressive mount with a longer radius in sub-110 underfoot.

[abraham]

Still think a -10 mm Praxis RX makes sense since that design isn't really soft-snow specific.

Agreed, sorta like the rockered Gotamas that existed for a while. . but I haven't skied an RX yet so I don't know.

Also not the same brand, but I cannot think of many times where I wanted a skinnier ski than my GPOs but I wanted the same shape/profile. I'm not as attuned to shape and flex as a bunch of you guys though, so I may be missing something

[NW_SKIER]

As I said above, spring sale will start next week, but if anyone wants to snag anything before we start promoting it, these discount codes are good through Tuesday.

TGR.Mag.Wren98
TGR.Mag.Wren108
TGR.Mag.Kartel98
TGR.Mag.Kartel108
TGR.Mag.BillyGoat
TGR.Mag.Steeple

Thanks very much. That was all I needed to talk me into buying one of the last two pairs of steeple 108's.

[krick]

Any chance of a code for the Jesse 88 and 98?

As I said above, spring sale will start next week, but if anyone wants to snag anything before we start promoting it, these discount codes are good through Tuesday.

TGR.Mag.Wren98
TGR.Mag.Wren108
TGR.Mag.Kartel98
TGR.Mag.Kartel108
TGR.Mag.BillyGoat
TGR.Mag.Steeple

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Bruce Springskiin]

This is getting out of control. And a couple of the kids stayed at home today.

[stradissimo]

I finally got to demo some asym Billy Goats at Bridger last Thursday.
I grabbed the skis and went straight up to Hidden Gully, then took the Outer Limits Traverse and found bliss. Thigh-deep 5% untracked, down to some slightly chopped up, slightly heavier snow. The whole way down I couldn't believe how easy the Billys made things. When I'm in chop, my instincts, when the ski tips start to catch, is to slam into the front of my boots and force the skis to point back down the fall line. The Billys did exactly what I want.
I'm going to buy some. The question is 179 or 184. I demo'd the 184, but I'm 5'6" and 145 lbs. I'm mainly going to ski Stevens Pass, Crystal, and Alpental, so It seems like the 179 should be better for PNW trees. If I lived in the Rockies, the 184 would be mine. Decisions, decisions...

[auvgeek]

If you ski more Crystal than Alpy, I would go 184 -- they rule the king. If you mainly ski Alpental bc or stevens trees, I could see the 179 being better for someone your size.

[iggyskier]

Any chance of a code for the Jesse 88 and 98?




Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

TGR.Mag.Jessie 👍

[stradissimo]

If you ski more Crystal than Alpy, I would go 184 -- they rule the king. If you mainly ski Alpental bc, I could see the 179 being better for someone your size.

I've never been to Crystal. This is my second season in the area. Last year, I was Alpental only. This year, I've been splitting my time between Alpy and Stevens. I might move to Issaquah before next winter, so I'd switch to Alpy and Crystal.

Man, the 184s were so good at Bridger... I have 2016 4frnt Renegades (186), which I took through the Northwest Passage the next morning, so I could hit the same snow. They really pissed me off because I'd throw them sideways to dump speed, the tips would start to catch, so I'd jump on the front of my boots and the tails would release and I'd almost spin around with me thinking "no goddamnit! point down, not up!" I've had some incredible days on the Rens, but the BGs worked better for those conditions.

[theetruscan]

FWIW, picked up some 179 BGs (year before asym, but similar) for my brother. he’s never wanted a longer ski, hucks and straightlines plenty on them. he’s 5’9”, 175. i like the bigger skis, but the BG is plenty stable even when you go short for maneuverability.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums