ON3P SKIS Discussion

[crank54]

(Post removed)

[krick]

What year did you try? Pretty sure Jeff (pre- ‘14 I think) was elliptical and then they switched it to bi-radius.

Darn, I didnt get along with the J114 as much as I wanted to. Found it too “hooky”.

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[margotron]

To bring this back to owen three p, could we get some more folk to weigh in on the Steeple 108? Thinking about pairing with the salomon shift from the group reorder. Stated weight is 2100g in the 189 which is already heavier than I'd like...but if it crushes I could justify it as a more 50/50 than touring setup

[TahoeJ]

To bring this back to owen three p, could we get some more folk to weigh in on the Steeple 108?

Ha, I was kind of thinking the same thing as a heavier slackcountry setup. I haven't sent in my Shift pre-order yet because I'm still figuring out the brake size I want to get. Having said that, I'll probably just put them on my Wren 98's that I had kingpins on before and that way I can use that ski in the resort more often. The Wren 98 weight is only a bit more than the Steeple 108.

[kid-kapow]

yeah - sorry, didn't mean to derail the entire thread here. I do think the bmt/on3p ski comparisons still provide some stellar feedback for the on3p specific crowd though

The day i used the BMT109s i swapped them after a few runs to get on my Wren108s instead. That was due to the super choppy, super tracked out, dense coastal fresh i was riding in. The BMTs were less than perfect in those conditions, though to be perfectly honest I think that had more to do with my lack of experience with/confidence in the BMTs than the skis not being up for it. Also, that pair of Wrens are 184 and come in at 8cm longer and what 500gr pr ski heavier, so - the wrens should knock the shorter and lighter BMTs out of the water every time in those kinda conditions.

as for the steeple108/shift combo - personally, i think that sounds more like a slackcountry soft snow specific lighter setup than a touring setup. For that use i would have rather gotten a wren108 with tectons instead of the steeple108 with shifts for the same system weight, but a setup that is more versatile, can charge with the best of them and less soft snow specific. The wrens are pretty damned good in soft snow imo. I guess with you on the shift train that option is off the table though

[snowday]

Trying to figure out a slackcountry setup for New England as well....Wrens or Kartels with Shifts?

[margotron]

Ha, I was kind of thinking the same thing as a heavier slackcountry setup. I haven't sent in my Shift pre-order yet because I'm still figuring out the brake size I want to get. Having said that, I'll probably just put them on my Wren 98's that I had kingpins on before and that way I can use that ski in the resort more often. The Wren 98 weight is only a bit more than the Steeple 108.

So you're between 100 and 110? If the widest ski you're putting them on would be 108, I'd go 100 and bend...oh fuck nm. Bending BC brakes is unwise.

Want me to see if Salomon offers brakes solo?


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[robnow]

I'm definitely thinking more:
BG w/ Shifts (have KPs on there now anyway)
Steeples w/ Tecton or even Mtn Lab

Sorry about your season down south but WOW, has it ever been a fun BG kind of year up here, so few days out on the Wrens.

[TahoeJ]

So you're between 100 and 110? If the widest ski you're putting them on would be 108, I'd go 100 and bend...oh fuck nm. Bending BC brakes is unwise.

Want me to see if Salomon offers brakes solo?


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No, it's fine. I'm just going to put them on my Wren 98's.

[iggyskier]

Interesting about the Kartel switching to bi-radius. I’d love to ski both style back to back for a comparison on feel. Side cut style is something most companies don’t seem to talk about. What is “standard” for most companies?

Technically not 100% correct. It's now a Hybrid Sidecut - kept the elliptical front, but moved to a fixed radius in the rear. Holds a bit more consistent turn shape and helps the tail release a bit easier. That said, it is a change most won't notice, as most skiing the Kartels balanced don't have issues with either.

Magnus line retains the elliptical sidecut. Two skinny Kartels go Hybrid, Kartel 116 stays as it is now with a Bi-Radius.

Can someone straighten me out out on which models have bi radius, which elliptical, in the past and going forward? I know about RES.

This year:
RES - Billy Goat, Cease & Desist, Steeple 108/116
Elliptical - Jessie 88/98, Magnus, Kartel 98/108, Charlie Murphy
Bi-Radius - Wrenegade 88/98/108, Jessie 108, Kartel 116

Obviously a bit tweaked next year, along with some of those skis being gone completely.

AFAIK, the jibby pow skis (Caylor, Jeffrey 114/122(?), and now K116) have always had bi-radius, for as long as ON3P has been using that term. The 110 and narrower all-mountain jib ski has been elliptical for a while, since at least the Jeffrey 110 and now the Kartel 106/108. The bi-radius sidecut is more soft-snow oriented, but some people earlier in this thread have said they find it more predictable and less hooky in firm snow than the elliptical. According to Scott/ON3P, the elliptical hooks up more the harder it is put on edge, but feels pretty straight with bases flat.

I've been very happy on the Jeffrey 110, which I thought had the biradius, but I just re-read Scott's email from 2014 and it says the Jeffrey has the elliptical. Interesting. I've been quite happy with it, but I ski a lot with bases flat so I guess it makes sense.

OG 108 Jeffrey was Bi-Radius. After that, Jeffrey line was elliptical until it went to Jeffrey 114/122, which were both bi-radius. Besides the original Jeffrey (108), everything 110 and below has been elliptical in the Jeffrey and Kartel line.

It makes sense -- ON3P used bi-radius on the pow skis and elliptical on the hard-snow biased skis.

Bingo.

To bring this back to owen three p, could we get some more folk to weigh in on the Steeple 108? Thinking about pairing with the salomon shift from the group reorder. Stated weight is 2100g in the 189 which is already heavier than I'd like...but if it crushes I could justify it as a more 50/50 than touring setup

It's a good sidecountry ski that can handle inbounds well. That said, I do believe we are sold out of the 189cm for the year, and it won't be a stock model next year - made to order custom only. We do have 2 pairs of Steeple 116 189cm left I believe.

[Cdubmpdx]

Trying to figure out a slackcountry setup for New England as well....Wrens or Kartels with Shifts?

I'm actually thinking about the same thing and trying to figure out how dumb of an idea that is. I do short tours and slack country for the most part so downhill capability is much more important to me.

I'm looking at both the the Wren 108, and Kartel 108. I've skied both and loved both.

Would it be overly stupid to throw a shift on here as a better alternative to frames? Anybody have frames binders on either of these?

If this is really stupid please talk me out of it.

[Reformed]

To bring this back to owen three p, could we get some more folk to weigh in on the Steeple 108?

I’ve already written a fair bit earlier in this thread if you go back and look. Experience since then continues to be very positive. Pow performance is better than the waist dimensions would suggest, firm performance is very good and predictable and funky 3D conditions are dealt with with very little drama. I think the ski makes a very good all around touring ski. It could be lighter, but then it’d probably give up some of its chops in challenging conditions. Really happy overall and haven’t found anything yet where I’ve been on the wrong ski with the steeples on my feet in the backcountry. Maybe not ideal here and there but pretty dame good all around.

[optics]

Question for anyone who has been on both 184 and 189 BG's.

How much do you give up in terms of maneuverability via sizing up?

I've been on the 186? (now 184?) and love how quick it is in trees and tight spots. But I'm ~200 lbs and have had my share of feeling like I'm headed over the bars when I get forward. Especially when it's deep and chopped up. I'm not super charge-y in general.

I've heard a lot of "you don't lose any top end on the smaller size". But do you give much up in terms of quickness in the 189?

Also before you say it, I know I'm being stupid and it's not that much difference.

edit: and yes, this does mean that there might be a minty pair of 186s up for grabs. Feel free to PM me if you're interested.

[kid-kapow]

apologies that my recollection of the Blister podcast was off wrt the sidecut being bi radius.

[dschane]

I’ve already written a fair bit earlier in this thread if you go back and look. Experience since then continues to be very positive. Pow performance is better than the waist dimensions would suggest, firm performance is very good and predictable and funky 3D conditions are dealt with with very little drama. I think the ski makes a very good all around touring ski. It could be lighter, but then it’d probably give up some of its chops in challenging conditions. Really happy overall and haven’t found anything yet where I’ve been on the wrong ski with the steeples on my feet in the backcountry. Maybe not ideal here and there but pretty dame good all around.

I mostly agree with this. It has a fair amount of tip rocker (at least compared to the rest of my quiver) and is the best powder and breakable crust ski I own.

[prsboogie]

Damnit! There was a sweet pair of barely used 189 w98s with bindings on ebay for $400 shipped and I missed them!


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Oops 😎

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[Banh Mi]

Oops [emoji41]

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Im glad a mag got them at least..


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[Gman]

Trying to figure out a slackcountry setup for New England as well....Wrens or Kartels with Shifts?

How tall/big are you? I've got 179 Wren 98 tour's with kingpins. You're welcome to take them for a spin sometime if you want. I'm a 26.5 boot.

[carlh]

Are the 2nd run supergoats real? I want to know if I should be waiting for them and buying binders or holding out for a set of used normal bgs?

[iggyskier]

Are the 2nd run supergoats real? I want to know if I should be waiting for them and buying binders or holding out for a set of used normal bgs?

Should be done by the end of the week.

[MHSP1497]

Thinking about selling my stiff, wood veneer Kartel 98’s and replacing them with Wren 108’s.

I blew out my shoulder this season, and the wife has commanded me to keep skis on snow going forward (i’m not getting any younger). Managed to learn the hard way that 11” of powder on top of 60” of boilerplate ice isn’t enough to soften a bad landing after launching a cliff (Timberline, bottom of Molly’s, under the chair).

I have custom BG’s for deeper days and got the K98’s for my DD’s to have something fun to pop around on. Now that jibbing is behind me/out of the question, I’m thinking a more direction ski like a Wren makes sense.

Thoughts??

[mattig]

Should be done by the end of the week.

Various layups?

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[iggyskier]

Various layups?

Stiff on all of them. I personally think that is the ideal flex for the ski. I believe we are down to 7 pairs left available.

[iggyskier]

Thinking about selling my stiff, wood veneer Kartel 98’s and replacing them with Wren 108’s.

I blew out my shoulder this season, and the wife has commanded me to keep skis on snow going forward (i’m not getting any younger). Managed to learn the hard way that 11” of powder on top of 60” of boilerplate ice isn’t enough to soften a bad landing after launching a cliff (Timberline, bottom of Molly’s, under the chair).

I have custom BG’s for deeper days and got the K98’s for my DD’s to have something fun to pop around on. Now that jibbing is behind me/out of the question, I’m thinking a more direction ski like a Wren makes sense.

Thoughts??

Really comes down to mount & balance. If you want to drive your skis more, Wren would be a good fit. If you want, schedule a demo from the factory and try a pair out. Thanks!

[auvgeek]

Thinking about selling my stiff, wood veneer Kartel 98’s
...
the wife has commanded me to keep skis on snow

Keep the skis, sell the wife?