WASATCH STOKE, CONDITIONS, OBSERVATIONS AND ASSORTED DRIVAL 17-18

[brutah]

This is true, but I can certainly understand the opposition when 75% of the State's population doesn't ski at all let alone ski LCC. Billions of dollars is a lot of public money to throw at a problem that affects such a small amount of people. Anyone know what UDOT spends on avy control and road maintenance each year keeping 210 open? Even if you completely abandoned the road it seems like it would take a really long time to break even on the cost of the train.

do you know the stats on the amount of people that use the wasatch national forest? I've been told that the tri canyons (millcreek/LCC/BCC) see more visits than any US national park. Just because many utah residents don't ski, doesn't mean those people aren't going up the canyons. Shoot, half the time I hitch hike up from mid-canyon it seems I get picked up from some yahoo who is just driving up the canyon to drive up it.

[getoutside]

18 degrees. light winds in comparison to yesterday. s facing skied well. beautiful morning.

[muted]

This was a post control event with air blasts and Gasex exploders used in the starting zone. They feel super lucky on the outcome and praise their lucky stars.

Thanks for all the info it's a big help. So are you saying the avie started up top near one of the Gasex exploders (I can't even remember if there are one or two, last year was my first year there)? If so did it run far?

Yes, the lady was super lucky!

[muted]

As for a toll, I think the politician guy is just making it legal to collect tolls in Utah, it's not actually a specific plan. I'm glad he lives near the canyon and can experience first hand the shit-show, and his driveway was blocked. I hope his actions tell Ski Utah and everyone else that if you don't get off your ass and come up with a plan, he or another politician will for them. For that I'm grateful to him.

A canyon entrance where you pull off to pay or drive without stopping because you have a monthly pass (that is read as you drive) by seems doable. If you don't like paying because it's not a busy day, then ride a free bus. The more buses there are clogging the canyons, the more people are going to take them as getting stuck behind one will be just as slow as taking one. If there are buses going up/down every ten minutes: that would be key, during peak hours. Spitballing numbers and shit here of course....

What I'm afraid is passes will go up and a rich man's sport will become even more elitist.

[telefreewasatch]

Thanks for all the info it's a big help. So are you saying the avie started up top near one of the Gasex exploders (I can't even remember if there are one or two, last year was my first year there)? If so did it run far?

Yes, the lady was super lucky!

Yes, it started up by the exploders. I was wrong in that the siblings were not the 19th person on the slope; they were the first two public in that zone. Their ride was only about 1,200'!

On another note how 'bout the snow being under forecasted last night? Those 3" skied pretty good, eh?

[Skidog]

Yes, it started up by the exploders. I was wrong in that the siblings were not the 19th person on the slope; they were the first two public in that zone. Their ride was only about 1,200'!

On another note how 'bout the snow being under forecasted last night? Those 3" skied pretty good, eh?

You, like myself, likely confused the no name (SLC) slide with the no name snowbasin slide. The SLC one was 19th skier I believe.



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[new yabyum]

News outlets are reporting a slide in Silver Fork w /injuries. SFB to the white check in phone please.

[Skidog]

News outlets are reporting a slide in Silver Fork w /injuries. SFB to the white check in phone please.

Whoa....hope everyone is safe..

Edit fuck yeah age of skier fits sfb range. Shit.

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[F#*k you cat]

SFB is ok. Got a text from him. He was ridding hidden canyon 10410 10420

mobile update

[Skidog]

Not sfb. Just heard from a friend that spoke to his wife..

Vibes to whomever it was.

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[Todds]

I guess it might help with breakins at the lower parking areas but yeah it will not remotely address the intended problem.

Also mr Niederhauser can just deal w/traffic like the rest of us

Why don't we install a traffic light and give him a remote to control it. He can get in/out when he needs to. Problem solved. Or better yet lets elect a new senator.

Tolls aren't going to to solve the problem they are just going to increase revenue.

[muted]

Tolls aren't going to to solve the problem they are just going to increase revenue.

High tolls would reduce traffic significantly, all revenue would go to free buses, avie sheds over the roads, and paying for setting up the tolls.

OTH, you may be right.

[bigdude2468]

JC, do you have any idea what environmentalist would do with towers all over NPS land in the watershed creek bed for eight miles?? You would need an EIS that would more than likely take years and the cost would be astronomical.

What is better bus service? Every 15 minutes now, do you want them every 5 minutes? The problem with buses is they are not available at a moments notice. Oh, its a big powder day and the road doesn't open until 9:30, the buses scheduled to drop skiers off at 8:00 AM and drive back down to pick up passengers at 9:00 are still in the conga line. The road gets closed during the day and nothing gets back up until 3:00. It is just not practical to have 10 buses that sit and wait in case the road gets screwed up.

[bigdude2468]

As for a toll, I think the politician guy is just making it legal to collect tolls in Utah, it's not actually a specific plan. I'm glad he lives near the canyon and can experience first hand the shit-show, and his driveway was blocked. I hope his actions tell Ski Utah and everyone else that if you don't get off your ass and come up with a plan, he or another politician will for them. For that I'm grateful to him.

A canyon entrance where you pull off to pay or drive without stopping because you have a monthly pass (that is read as you drive) by seems doable. If you don't like paying because it's not a busy day, then ride a free bus. The more buses there are clogging the canyons, the more people are going to take them as getting stuck behind one will be just as slow as taking one. If there are buses going up/down every ten minutes: that would be key, during peak hours. Spitballing numbers and shit here of course....

What I'm afraid is passes will go up and a rich man's sport will become even more elitist.

Free bus, who pays for that? UTA is currently paying $1 of every $3 of revenue for debt service. They just borrowed another $88 million so the debt service goes up. Valley residents rejected an increase in sales tax for mass transit use and that had nothing to do with LCC. Sales tax funds 70% of UTA's budget, do you really think the non skiers, which are somewhere between 85% & 90% of the valley is willing to give a bunch of skiers transportation options for maybe 25 days per ski season when I-15 is a shit show every weekday during rush hour. Sorry, I just don't see why UTA would prioritize one small segment of road when they have much bigger fish to fry?

[cat in january]

Alta did not suck today.

Hitting gunsight with first tracks was one highlight among many.

Think D-Roc knows there, there now appreciate you showing me around.

Hope to hear good news on avy in bcc.

[skiATL]

First, snow was goof and fun on short swing this morning. Can still feel beneath new snow, but still good. Also, can we not cut skintracks up the middle of short swings - it's still avy terrain and the north ridge off the summit is way better. Anyways off my soapbox...


As for this traffic issue, the only solution is likely a congestion pricing model combined with a 3rd lane for buses and carpool, and more parking and bus service. Congestion pricing is a system that essentially prices a toll based on traffic levels to keep traffic flowing at a specific speed (in the instance of canyon traffic, it could be free on off hours, and ~$10+ on weekend pow day). Higher prices encourage less volume at peak times and more at say 6am. The major issue I see with it is there are limited options aside from changing the time you drive (which may not be a great option in the long run). In traditional urban transportation, commuters can react to traffic (or a high toll) in 3 main ways, temporal (drive at 5am), modal (take transit or bike), or spatial (take a different route). Unfortunately in the canyons, 1 isnt available - route (and I dont think the tunnel will help this a great deal, park city will just get slammed), 1 is pathetic in its current form(bus), and the last is limited - time (how much earlier will people wake up for pow days or normal weekend days? Will they just pay a high toll instead? or just decide it's not worth it and turn away?) A 3rd lane for busses and carpoolers and increased bus service will help with these, but eventually it will get too expensive and crowded for people(SLC is projected to double in the next 30 years or something similar to that).


As for a train, it won't ever pay for itself. Shit most trains in urban areas don't pay for themselves, and there is not even close to the amount of passengers in the canyon as on urban rail, and the cost is far greater. It's also gonna be harder to approve funding for something that doesn't affect most people and is not used much 1/2 of the year.

I scoffed at the idea of a gondola at first, but it might actually work (aside from seeing the thing). It would have to along the canyon bottom with stops in (maybe) Sandy, Canyon bottom, Snowbird Creekside, Snowbird Center, Cliff Lodge, Alta Collins, Alta Albion. It would take about 45-60 minutes to get up to alta, and the capacity is way higher than busses (which is what? 55 people 4 times an hour at 220 people/hr). The whistler gondola is 2500 people/hour, and others are 3800/hour. Anyone know the traffic rates/capacity of lcc road? The gondola wouldn't be done in 4 towers, but it wouldn't be very affected by avalanches (at least not as much as a road or train). This means people get up despite road closures. It could also be extended into Sandy to a retail/hotel district for tourists, and this is of course the point that lcc is completely overrun and were fucked anyways. The sight of it will suck (maybe it's not super far off the ground), but it would be way less impact than a train, and might look better too. The other issue is it might open it up for the connection (via gondola) to BCC and PC and bring about One Wasatch.

By the way, if you want to learn more about traffic congestion and its (limited) solutions, check out the book, Still Stuck in Traffic by Anthony Downs

[whyturn]

Memba when it was not busy
Terrain is getting better with each storm though.

[telefreewasatch]

"I scoffed at the idea of a gondola at first, but it might actually work (aside from seeing the thing). It would have to along the canyon bottom with stops in (maybe) Sandy, Canyon bottom, Snowbird Creekside, Snowbird Center, Cliff Lodge, Alta Collins, Alta Albion. It would take about 45-60 minutes to get up to alta, and the capacity is way higher than busses (which is what? 55 people 4 times an hour at 220 people/hr). The whistler gondola is 2500 people/hour, and others are 3800/hour. Anyone know the traffic rates/capacity of lcc road? The gondola wouldn't be done in 4 towers, but it wouldn't be very affected by avalanches (at least not as much as a road or train). This means people get up despite road closures. It could also be extended into Sandy to a retail/hotel district for tourists, and this is of course the point that lcc is completely overrun and were fucked anyways. The sight of it will suck (maybe it's not super far off the ground), but it would be way less impact than a train, and might look better too. The other issue is it might open it up for the connection (via gondola) to BCC and PC and bring about One Wasatch."

This. Its the way of the future.
A gondola doesn't care about snowfall and avalanche hazard. If it is placed correctly, it makes LCC a truly world class destination. Imagine moving goods, services and people regardless of weather (except wind).

For parking to feed the above, the land on the right hillside of the right fork of the highway is predominantly Forest Service land. Just past the Dillard place which is the only place on the right. Another pointy private parcel 1/3 mile further on. Eminent domain on that piece. More FS land after. Room for an add-on park and ride for years. The current park and ride at the mouth of LCC was a Forest Service grant. Its not that there isn't room for parking, its just not discussed.

Nothing is impossible.

[skiATL]

This. Its the way of the future.
A gondola doesn't care about snowfall and avalanche hazard. If it is placed correctly, it makes LCC a truly world class destination. Imagine moving goods, services and people regardless of weather (except wind).

For parking to feed the above, the land on the right hillside of the right fork of the highway is predominantly Forest Service land. Just past the Dillard place which is the only place on the right. Another pointy private parcel 1/2 mile further on. Room for an add-on park and ride for years. The current park and ride at the mouth of LCC was a Forest Service grant. Its not that there isn't room for parking, its just not discussed.

Nothing is impossible.

Imagine the gondola bike laps in the summer on the lcc downhill. Would be sick.

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[skifishbum]

Memba when it was not busy
Terrain is getting better with each storm though.

like when the icecondo was a parking lot that never really ever filled bloody marry's in the a frame had pickled green beans and you could get 3 for what 1 costs now
i memba
hope the silverfork dudes alright
word i got was skiers right of the meadows chutes
sfotex mr toasters and i skied a couple hidden canyon laps
then skied down to laxawaxa n up to 10420 where uptop
safely observed 6 double backie attempts

3 or 4 1 1/2ers a tip catch 1 3/4
a 2 to a hip check landing and 1 hudge laid out full stomp
kudos to that cat
skied a couple sure didn't suck for a 10" friday blessing laps
sfotex got pitted

happy trails sip and a deep thanks mr miller these skibum laps r 4 u

[MakersTeleMark]

Too long, didn't turn. TLDT.

[snowaddict91]

It could also be extended into Sandy to a retail/hotel district for tourists, and this is of course the point that lcc is completely overrun and were fucked anyways. The sight of it will suck (maybe it's not super far off the ground), but it would be way less impact than a train, and might look better too. The other issue is it might open it up for the connection (via gondola) to BCC and PC and bring about One Wasatch.

This is what I have been saying recently. Bring the Gondi all the way to the trax station so it links right up with the train and a big parking area (like say the one like 6 blocks from my house).

With my luck they'd probably eminent domain my house and put a tower there though.

[skijosh]

Imagine the gondola bike laps in the summer on the lcc downhill. Would be sick.

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Maybe they could also set a groomer down the whole canyon (like they did once before) so you could ski all the way down to your car as well

[Skidog]

First, snow was goof and fun on short swing this morning. Can still feel beneath new snow, but still good. Also, can we not cut skintracks up the middle of short swings - it's still avy terrain and the north ridge off the summit is way better. Anyways off my soapbox...


As for this traffic issue, the only solution is likely a congestion pricing model combined with a 3rd lane for buses and carpool, and more parking and bus service. Congestion pricing is a system that essentially prices a toll based on traffic levels to keep traffic flowing at a specific speed (in the instance of canyon traffic, it could be free on off hours, and ~$10+ on weekend pow day). Higher prices encourage less volume at peak times and more at say 6am. The major issue I see with it is there are limited options aside from changing the time you drive (which may not be a great option in the long run). In traditional urban transportation, commuters can react to traffic (or a high toll) in 3 main ways, temporal (drive at 5am), modal (take transit or bike), or spatial (take a different route). Unfortunately in the canyons, 1 isnt available - route (and I dont think the tunnel will help this a great deal, park city will just get slammed), 1 is pathetic in its current form(bus), and the last is limited - time (how much earlier will people wake up for pow days or normal weekend days? Will they just pay a high toll instead? or just decide it's not worth it and turn away?) A 3rd lane for busses and carpoolers and increased bus service will help with these, but eventually it will get too expensive and crowded for people(SLC is projected to double in the next 30 years or something similar to that).


As for a train, it won't ever pay for itself. Shit most trains in urban areas don't pay for themselves, and there is not even close to the amount of passengers in the canyon as on urban rail, and the cost is far greater. It's also gonna be harder to approve funding for something that doesn't affect most people and is not used much 1/2 of the year.

I scoffed at the idea of a gondola at first, but it might actually work (aside from seeing the thing). It would have to along the canyon bottom with stops in (maybe) Sandy, Canyon bottom, Snowbird Creekside, Snowbird Center, Cliff Lodge, Alta Collins, Alta Albion. It would take about 45-60 minutes to get up to alta, and the capacity is way higher than busses (which is what? 55 people 4 times an hour at 220 people/hr). The whistler gondola is 2500 people/hour, and others are 3800/hour. Anyone know the traffic rates/capacity of lcc road? The gondola wouldn't be done in 4 towers, but it wouldn't be very affected by avalanches (at least not as much as a road or train). This means people get up despite road closures. It could also be extended into Sandy to a retail/hotel district for tourists, and this is of course the point that lcc is completely overrun and were fucked anyways. The sight of it will suck (maybe it's not super far off the ground), but it would be way less impact than a train, and might look better too. The other issue is it might open it up for the connection (via gondola) to BCC and PC and bring about One Wasatch.

By the way, if you want to learn more about traffic congestion and its (limited) solutions, check out the book, Still Stuck in Traffic by Anthony Downs

Glad someone else sees a gondola is the way. I know 4 towers was small, that was just to point out other spans on other gondolas, and that even double or more towers would be less impact than a train even would be. You noted that as well. Could also act as a pretty cool summer/fall attraction for tourists and non skiing locals. Imagine a long 60min fall colored ride up the canyon over the creek..quite beautiful I imagine, give those too lazy to hike a taste. Might help pay for the thing.

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[MTT]

like when the icecondo was a parking lot that never really ever filled bloody marry's in the a frame had pickled green beans and you could get 3 for what 1 costs now
i memba
hope the silverfork dudes alright
word i got was skiers right of the meadows chutes
sfotex mr toasters and i skied a couple hidden canyon laps
then skied down to laxawaxa n up to 10420 where uptop
safely observed 6 double backie attempts

3 or 4 1 1/2ers a tip catch 1 3/4
a 2 to a hip check landing and 1 hudge laid out full stomp
kudos to that cat
skied a couple sure didn't suck for a 10" friday blessing laps
sfotex got pitted

happy trails sip and a deep thanks mr miller these skibum laps r 4 u

Nice shots, You made me get out of the Recliner and go look at my ski gear. I just fondled my 2 new pair of Googles