Shiffrin

[GhostofSeasonsPast]

She continues to be awesome.

As her dad says in the New Yorker recently, "[t]he kids with raw talent rarely make it...kites fly higher against a headwind."

[Danno]

Perhaps I can solve this ridiculous problem. Maybe you're trying to say that there might have been a few peers of Shiffrin that had more natural talent than she, but didn't work as hard, well that may be true (though I think the mental side is more than just "she out worked them"). But she certainly has natural talent, and oodles of it, just maybe not the absolute most. Sure, I'll buy that I don't know enough about all the details, that might be true (though I do understand res ipsa loquitur, and it might apply).

[telefreewasatch]

Perhaps I can solve this ridiculous problem. Maybe you're trying to say that there might have been a few peers of Shiffrin that had more natural talent than she, but didn't work as hard, well that may be true (though I think the mental side is more than just "she out worked them"). But she certainly has natural talent, and oodles of it, just maybe not the absolute most. Sure, I'll buy that I don't know enough about all the details, that might be true (though I do understand res ipsa loquitur, and it might apply).

I totally agree. In 2010 at the Trofeo Topolino international children's races, Shiffrin won the GS and then won the slalom...by four seconds. Against the best 14 year olds in the world. Same year won the GS at the Whistler Cup, crushed the first run of the slalom and DNF'd the second run. Against the best 14 year olds in the world. Vhlova was skiing top 5 at the time if I remember correctly.

Everyone knows how hard she works / has worked. To say she doesn't have much natural talent is completely ridiculous. Enough already GSP.

[Danno]

One more podium and she will surpass the year end points total of last year's 2nd place overall woman (Stuhec).

[Toadman]

She continues to be awesome.

As her dad says in the New Yorker recently, "[t]he kids with raw talent rarely make it...kites fly higher against a headwind."

Not quite sure what her dad is saying here? Those with raw talent that have good coaching, and have the right mental attitude really can stand out. There are not that many that posses all the necessary ingredients to excel but the ones that do, really do quite well, ala Schiffrin.

It's almost like Schiffrin's dad is giving her a backhanded compliment, that she has talent, but not to the same level as some other skiers, and just out works them, and out does them in the mental fortitude arena. Kudo's to her. You can see the look of resignation on some of the female skiers getting their hopes dashed, when Mikaela crushes them week in and week out.

[Vt-Freeheel]

It really has to suck for the other racers, 7 of 8 and 4 in a row. The three sitting in the hot seats likely are secretly hoping she misses a gate.

[MTT]

[Canada1]

His comment is dumb. You don’t blow away the worlds best unless you check every box. Maybe she needs this to drive her, but she is a complete stud. I know I have never seen Ligity speak without mentioning that he was regulated to farm team at PCMR. Says alot about the system. In general through stars at 10, 15 and 20 are not the same.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Shiffrin was always known as a training animal. Her parents instilled this in her and she was (is) naturally driven anyway. If you ever speak with anyone who coached her, even at a very young age, they will tell you that they had to make her stop training, not encourage her to do more.

That said, the racing world is full of people who train with that intensity. Many of Shiffrin's peers have trained as hard as she has. I have noticed that people like Michael Jordan sometimes like to talk about how their hard work is the key to their success, but the reality is that a Shiffrin or Jordan is also born with ridiculous talent that .01% (or less) of the world has (I will stick by that even if her father (who has a history of taking 'interesting' positions) claims otherwise about her--I think her father's point in this case has more to do with the numerous talented kids who have some success and then think they've made it, when all they've really done is had some success in junior or lower level racing).

Her champagne opening/pull-up suckage is still highly troubling.

[sb]

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https...D3i4OHmI0egYGU

[Danno]

That said, the racing world is full of people who train with that intensity. Many of Shiffrin's peers have trained as hard as she has. I have noticed that people like Michael Jordan sometimes like to talk about how their hard work is the key to their success, but the reality is that a Shiffrin or Jordan is also born with ridiculous talent that .01% (or less) of the world has

Exactly. You don't dominate like she has solely through hard work, nor do you dominate like she has solely through natural talent. You need to have a lot of both.

[k2skier112]

Shiffrin was always known as a training animal. Her parents instilled this in her and she was (is) naturally driven anyway. If you ever speak with anyone who coached her, even at a very young age, they will tell you that they had to make her stop training, not encourage her to do more.

That said, the racing world is full of people who train with that intensity. Many of Shiffrin's peers have trained as hard as she has. I have noticed that people like Michael Jordan sometimes like to talk about how their hard work is the key to their success, but the reality is that a Shiffrin or Jordan is also born with ridiculous talent that .01% (or less) of the world has (I will stick by that even if her father (who has a history of taking 'interesting' positions) claims otherwise about her--I think her father's point in this case has more to do with the numerous talented kids who have some success and then think they've made it, when all they've really done is had some success in junior or lower level racing).

Her champagne opening/pull-up suckage is still highly troubling.

What I admire most about Mikaela is her course memorizing ability, which in turn makes her look like water flowing down the hill.

[GhostofSeasonsPast]

...

That said, the racing world is full of people who train with that intensity. Many of Shiffrin's peers have trained as hard as she has....

No, not really.

In fact, a consistent theme is that she works harder.

Even some of the strongest parts of her game, such as touch, are things that she has worked really hard at. Some people do seem to simply have a lot of touch, but she had to work hard in acquiring it. Again, for anyone wondering, that is a compliment.

[My Pet Powder Goat]

Did she tell you that?

[bodywhomper]

touching makes the flesh to cry out loud

Sent from my SPH-L710 using TGR Forums mobile app

[DanoT]

This has become an "Epic" thread, kinda like a bunch of ski instructors endless analyzing and re-hashing. I'm out.

[::: :::]

I’m sure everyone trains hard
Not everyone has the continued intensity of focus over time

[bodywhomper]

Can she ski the pow pow? I remember hearing that bodie was a fish out of water in the 3d snow.

Maybe she'll bridge a gap in a decade or so and start ruling the skimo scene.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using TGR Forums mobile app

[dufferdan]

Watching her is special. I haven’t seen every race this year the way some have, but I love to watch slalom and GS over the speed events.

As to the side discussion on athleticism vs hard work vs alchemy, it is a crap shoot to a degree, tho the basics are common.

First, raw talent on any skill set is on a bell curve, probability wise. So let’s say even a skilled club skier is at the 90th+ percentile. Go across all the required qualities for a special athlete. Focus, work ethic, quality of coaches and trainers. The bell curve applies. Multiply .95x.95x.95x.95 across the disciplines needed and you get the odds of having a Lindsey Vonn or Mikela Schiffrin. Parental guidance is also key. Parents that know how to figure out and negotiate the “system”, and where needed, bend it to their benefit. An example of the latter. Our kids were in a local racing program at the Nancy Greene level(12 and under). My older boy and I were going up the lift with an ex-Crazy Canuck. He asked my son, what discipline do you like. My son said he didn’t like racing, he preferred freestyle. Oh, then are you in gymnastics? Athletics? Freestyle program at COP? The automatic questions were are you in the programs that will give you the best chance to be successful? He had spent his life in the system and athlete development was in his DNA. We just wanted our kids to have fun skiing and learn to do it well. The particular Crazy Canuck has one son on the Canadian National team and one on the development squad. But the heritage and knowledge were a definite leg up.

Money. The best skiers don’t necessarily make it through the money cut. I know of three or four athletes on the Canadian development team. They have to commit upwards of $40 k per year, plus fund raise, pay a portion of their sponsorships to the national team organization, and cover flights, hotels, equipment, etc. That knocks a lot of kids out of the system.

I read a few articles of Mikela growing up. Two skiers for parents with some racing/ instructing skills, one could argue her Mom is of the “Tiger-Mom” model, but Mikela also had a passion for the sport and a desire to learn and excel that helped a ton.

A lot of things come together to develop a Tiger Woods, Jack Nicklaus, Vonn, Tomba, Ingemar or Schiffrin. And when they arrive, it is a marvel to watch. Sooo much fun.....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Dexter Rutecki]

No, not really.

In fact, a consistent theme is that she works harder.

Guy, how would you know that, and how can you quantify that? I can't say anyone trains harder than her, because what I know of her training (direct from both past and present coaches) is that she basically never stops. But why would you claim to know that she is unique in that? Do you have any idea what the competition is on some of the Euro national teams for a spot? And the up and comers know that they are one bad race away from possibly being dropped. I bet those girls overtrain, if anything. You can literally go down the list and be assured that they are all animals.

The same goes for your understanding of why/how she has such a good feel for the snow. How the fuck do you know (or claim to know) where it really comes from? If you have some way of actually knowing this I would love to hear.

Maybe you should stick to pull-up commentary, where you do seem to have some expertise. (Can't remember--is critiquing ski schoolers at Steaux your thing?)

[nyskirat]

PSA: She's racing later today at the Flachau Night SL.

[Vt-Freeheel]

Stoked that my local cable provider added the Olympic channel a few weeks ago. Coverage of all of the races now. Flachau live 2:30-4 est this afternoon, repeat 10:30-12 pm.

[nyskirat]

Into 2nd after 1 by .37.

Schild is winning, Hansdotter is 3rd, .74 behind Schild.

Vlhova DNF.

[From_the_NEK]

Into 2nd after 1 by .37.

Schild is winning, Hansdotter is 3rd, .74 behind Schild.

Vlhova DNF.

LOL the reaction by Schild sitting in the leaders chair after Shiffrin finished the first run behind her.

Several major DNFs on the upper portion of the course where Mikaela was pretty cautious and lost most of her time.

[plugboots]

She’s in the gate now for the second run