Tammy Wynette cannot be reached for help-Divorce advice

[anonalias]

The lens of self esteem is a useful one to look at all of this through. Takes some of the sting out of hurtful actions and helps you make a more rational allowance for the other person’s behavior. It’s the kind of arrow that is hard to shoot without empathy, and some acknowledgement of how you both contribute to and can assuage the situation. It can also be really condescending....

That said, there are a lot of platitudes in the preceding comments. Lack of mutual respect doesn’t get fixed through self esteem, and my perception of disrespect isn’t necessarily a reflection of my self esteem.

Also, we’re talking about an intimate relationship upon which we build, or at least should serve as a bulwark against the loss of, self esteem. While the platitudes above may be pretty reliable in most relationships and interactions (friends, work, acquaintances), I️ don’t think they’re nearly as reliable here.

[DBdude]

oye

your ex seems pretty vindictive and maybe you are aloof - maybe not

obviously, concentrate on doing what is best for the kids. it seems your ex's feelings are going to get in the way with that. her having 100% custody is not in the kids best interests. this can get pretty nasty. try not to respond in kind when the low blows come but still stand up for your best interests and the kids

if you have a clue, the rest will come. if you don't - then it won't

[oftpiste]

This. Again, the platitudes really don't help. Self esteem can be battered pretty hard by experiencing emotional or physical abuse (which is what anon's wife is doing to him). You question yourself constantly. "Am I nuts?". "Am I making this up?". "Am I the crazy one?". Eventually you are presented with incontrovertible evidence that you are not any of those things and the person you used to think you knew has gone to the dark side of narcissism, sociopathy, addiction etc. And those people are master gas-lighters which makes it all extremely difficult to reconcile, and even more difficult to hang on to self-esteem.

The things that the platitudinous here proclaim really only apply if both partners are relatively stable and mentally healthy. All that mutual respect, "work hard to make each other happy" and self-esteem stuff goes out the window pretty quickly if you're up against a person who isn't. It takes two people who are relatively stable and in the same general space or it just doesn't work. If the other person is incapable of acknowledging that they need to play by the same rules or are completely unaware of the lunacy of their own behavior NONE of those things mean diddly.

Anon, you will feel better and more capable of dealing with the nuts and bolts of custody and money when you are finally able to get away from her craziness. I'm so sorry you and others who are faced with this kind of challenge are having to go through it all. 'Cuz it sucks ballz.

The lens of self esteem is a useful one to look at all of this through. Takes some of the sting out of hurtful actions and helps you make a more rational allowance for the other person’s behavior. It’s the kind of arrow that is hard to shoot without empathy, and some acknowledgement of how you both contribute to and can assuage the situation. It can also be really condescending....

That said, there are a lot of platitudes in the preceding comments. Lack of mutual respect doesn’t get fixed through self esteem, and my perception of disrespect isn’t necessarily a reflection of my self esteem.

Also, we’re talking about an intimate relationship upon which we build, or at least should serve as a bulwark against the loss of, self esteem. While the platitudes above may be pretty reliable in most relationships and interactions (friends, work, acquaintances), I️ don’t think they’re nearly as reliable here.

[delco714]

This. Again, the platitudes really don't help. Self esteem can be battered pretty hard by experiencing emotional or physical abuse (which is what anon's wife is doing to him). You question yourself constantly. "Am I nuts?". "Am I making this up?". "Am I the crazy one?". Eventually you are presented with incontrovertible evidence that you are not any of those things and the person you used to think you knew has gone to the dark side of narcissism, sociopathy, addiction etc. And those people are master gas-lighters which makes it all extremely difficult to reconcile, and even more difficult to hang on to self-esteem.

The things that the platitudinous here proclaim really only apply if both partners are relatively stable and mentally healthy. All that mutual respect, "work hard to make each other happy" and self-esteem stuff goes out the window pretty quickly if you're up against a person who isn't. It takes two people who are relatively stable and in the same general space or it just doesn't work. If the other person is incapable of acknowledging that they need to play by the same rules or are completely unaware of the lunacy of their own behavior NONE of those things mean diddly.

Anon, you will feel better and more capable of dealing with the nuts and bolts of custody and money when you are finally able to get away from her craziness. I'm so sorry you and others who are faced with this kind of challenge are having to go through it all. 'Cuz it sucks ballz.

Gaslighting..

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[delco714]

Gaslighting..

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And mental health issues like personality disorders ( borderline comes to mind) and bipolar disorder.. :\.. Even generalized anxiety is a bitch.

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[oftpiste]

I certainly could have made the list longer...

And mental health issues like personality disorders ( borderline comes to mind) and bipolar disorder.. :\.. Even generalized anxiety is a bitch.

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[Cono Este]

Medications. Don’t forget to take a peek as to what someone might be on. People can be really callous or cold, and you wonder why, look at what’s in the cabinet.


Especially if they are going to use that “he smoke pot everyday” bullshit against you.

[oftpiste]

^^if only.

[anonalias]

She’s on lots of stuff. I’m not sure what. I don’t care a ton at this point, she’s not going to change it based on my input and I’ve made a career out of making allowances for her bullshit.... I don’t need help there. I like to drink beer, but I almost never drink more than one in a sitting. Otherwise, I take nothing, legal or not. Never have, either.

Next week is lots of court. Hearing to try to kick me out and then conciliation to set up temporary custody arrangements. So, super stressed about that. I’m tired of her trying to get into my head. Looking forward to being in my own place. Within a few weeks, I hope....

[DBdude]

good luck

[Meadow Skipper]

good luck

+1

[Danno]

+2

[KQ]

Me three!

[oftpiste]

Hoping for the best for ya man. Tough week.

[concretejungle]

Hang in there. This too shall pass.

[RShea]

Hope the drama, games and your court events next week are favorable and progress to what sounds like the inevitable split. Vibes as you enter into it.

[LHutz Esq]

It’s going to be bad for a bit yet bud- but stay focused and it will get better.

[skifishbum]

I think if you read what I wrote you'll see I'm cool with people doing what works for them and just tried to explain why I'm doing what I'm doing, but whatever man. This shit's been on my mind a ton lately, I've been going over and over it because we're not in a very good place here in this house, so maybe it came off wrong. If so, sorry.

i was gonna call
then i read

For the record it's not that bad here. I mean the bitch is crazy, sure. And sometimes it gets to me, yes. But I'm not exactly a prize myself so hey. We'll see what tomorrow brings.

and my slacker ass figured your all good

hopes to see n ski yas both soon
i'm done arguing in this thread
and sincerly hopes it all susses out for anonoalia bro
and feel free to come ski me sometime
its what the bums do best

[anonalias]

Thanks all.

Had an interesting weekend. We de-escalated a little bit, and agreed to work together to make this not blow up in everybody's face and burn everything down. Out of that came a tentative custody agreement (less than 50/50, but something I can live with), a general understanding of my plans to leave the home, and a general outline in re: to spousal support (loosely, an amount designed to leave her with approximately half of our current combined take home, inclusive of child support and any other bills that I pay, that goes away if she gets married and declines over time, but would be in effect for 10 years otherwise). The payoff for having terms that we can each live with is that we get to have a functional relationship and actively facilitate each other's relationships with the kids. Along with that we actually had a good weekend. Co-parented. Participated in stuff together with the kids. Didn't feel on edge every minute the other was in the house.... big relief.

The hearing to kick me out was this morning. We both talked to our lawyers in advance, and told them what we had generally agreed to. Then the lawyers went and had their own conference. My lawyer refused to agree to anything in re: spousal support. To be fair, she muffed up the math a little bit in her explanation to her lawyer... though I don't believe that was intentional. In any event, my lawyer kicked out that part. When she found out that my lawyer kicked out that part, she kicked out the rest of it. Claws back out. Fuck. Me.

Anyhow, tried to save it, but my lawyer wouldn't have any of it. While I'm firmly convinced that I could get away with paying a lot less if I dragged it through court, that's at the expense of our souls. I do not give a fuck about the money. His argument is that I sure as shit will 5 years from now.... I'm not sure I'm convinced.

Anyways, now looking to sort this out sans lawyers. Maybe an awful idea, maybe the only idea.... I'm not really sure.

[cravenmorhead]

My lawyer refused to agree to anything in re: spousal support.

At the end of the day, agreeing (or not) to specific settlement terms isn't up to your attorney. It's up to you. Cite.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Thanks all.

Had an interesting weekend. We de-escalated a little bit, and agreed to work together to make this not blow up in everybody's face and burn everything down. Out of that came a tentative custody agreement (less than 50/50, but something I can live with), a general understanding of my plans to leave the home, and a general outline in re: to spousal support (loosely, an amount designed to leave her with approximately half of our current combined take home, inclusive of child support and any other bills that I pay, that goes away if she gets married and declines over time, but would be in effect for 10 years otherwise). The payoff for having terms that we can each live with is that we get to have a functional relationship and actively facilitate each other's relationships with the kids. Along with that we actually had a good weekend. Co-parented. Participated in stuff together with the kids. Didn't feel on edge every minute the other was in the house.... big relief.

The hearing to kick me out was this morning. We both talked to our lawyers in advance, and told them what we had generally agreed to. Then the lawyers went and had their own conference. My lawyer refused to agree to anything in re: spousal support. To be fair, she muffed up the math a little bit in her explanation to her lawyer... though I don't believe that was intentional. In any event, my lawyer kicked out that part. When she found out that my lawyer kicked out that part, she kicked out the rest of it. Claws back out. Fuck. Me.

Anyhow, tried to save it, but my lawyer wouldn't have any of it. While I'm firmly convinced that I could get away with paying a lot less if I dragged it through court, that's at the expense of our souls. I do not give a fuck about the money. His argument is that I sure as shit will 5 years from now.... I'm not sure I'm convinced.

Anyways, now looking to sort this out sans lawyers. Maybe an awful idea, maybe the only idea.... I'm not really sure.

Tell your lawyer to fuck off. If what you and your soon to be ex worked out seems fair to both of you your lawyer should shut up and do his job. Your lawyer has a interest in keeping this litigation going and there will be less to divide in the end if this drags out in court for too long. Would you rather provide some security for your kids by paying for your ex or pad your lawyers bank account? I don't know where you are but child support, which you said was part of the number you agreed to as part spousal support, can be amended after two years here in WA. If she were to get a good paying job your amount of child support would likely drop.

[LHutz Esq]

Your lawyer might or might not be right - but ultimately it isn’t his call.

[Micol]

I do not give a fuck about the money. His argument is that I sure as shit will 5 years from now.... I'm not sure I'm convinced.

please see the "whole house man cave" thread before making this decision...

jk.....vibes man+++++++++++++++++

[Kevo]

Anon-

-Your lawyer is saving you from yourself. Why is she getting anything beyond child support?
-She'll have every incentive to never formally get married in the future. You'll be paying her to not formalize any relationship in the future so that she can continue to recieve your money.
-She isn't going to increase her income if you go down this path she laid out for you. Why would she go through all the hard work of bettering herself and getting a job when she can sit around and collect your money?

[KQ]

Anon-

-Your lawyer is saving you from yourself. Why is she getting anything beyond child support?
-She'll have every incentive to never formally get married in the future. You'll be paying her to not formalize any relationship in the future so that she can continue to recieve your money.
-She isn't going to increase her income if you go down this path she laid out for you. Why would she go through all the hard work of bettering herself and getting a job when she can sit around and collect your money?

Yeah... I'd go with listening to your lawyer. He's got a lot more experience in these things and has BTDT with other clients. I'd listen a little harder to what he's saying before you fully dismiss it.

Have had several friends who just wanted out and said they didn't care about this or that but after all was said and done, upon further reflection, they realized they were just anxious to get it over with and wished they hadn't given away what they did.

BTW - chances are good she will not remarry as long as she has your income. She'll shack up until such a time as the contract expires. Seen that time and time again too.