Running, Anyone...?

[nutmegchoi]

So my half was going well until mile 10.
Mile 11 hits and the same sensations hit me as Chicago mile 22.
Dizziness, headache, overheating... etc.
I end up walking to cool off and re-zoomed.
I must never got over the heatstroke I had from Chicago.
I’m going to take it easy next week to recover and restart.

How do you cool off?
I did everything I could and seems like it’s not enough.
I dress light, drank extra water starting at least few days before, drink through out the course mixing with water and Gatorade, gel every 4 miles, pour water over head and body, chase shades, take it slower when there’s breeze and downhill...
Am I missing something??

[2bjenny]

I don't know if it would make a difference, but I started using osmo hydration for women this past year. I like it and it seemed to help on long runs. I just use the active hydration since I'm not training for anything big. I haven't tried the pre training or recovery drink mixes. I've read many reviews from women who seem to notice a difference. There's not really any flavor choices, but the mango is fairly mild. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

[Viva]

If you want to run well in heat, you must train in heat. Period. Same for any other meteorologic condition.

Gatorade = fucking sugar-water. Find a real electrolyte drink (e.g., Tail Wind, Nuun, Gu2O [ I used to use CytoMax back in the day, but not sure that it's still around. Plus a lot of people thought that it tasted like shit. But I liked it.])

Gels and carbohydrate replacement dosn't matter for a half marathon. Speed work during both training and shorter races does.

But starting out too fast will fuck you up every time, unless you're an elite athlete. I wasn't, and going out too fast killed more than a few of my races.

Is cramping an issue at all?

In an earlier post, you wrote that you only ran 475 miles in twenty weeks. Double that! Not right away, of course, but over the next year or two. Really.

Finally, I've noticed that as I age, I have a more and more difficult time dealing with heat. As I am aware of your age, you may have to reconcile with the fact that you'll never mater the art of high-temp, long-distance running.

[sirbumpsalot]

Here are some things I would like to share and get your inputs:

I did both 20 week (NYC) and 16 week (Chicago) training.
20 week total was 475.5 miles and 16 week total was 371.6 miles.
20 week felt a little too long that I started losing focus and tension.
16 week felt too short and I feel like I didn’t get enough mileage.
Going for 18 week training next time.

This represents 23MPW average. If you want to run the marathon distance at your best potential and without slowing and as much pain you need to run more...a LOT more. Seriously. Up that to 40-50+ MPW minimum for the 8-10 weeks prior to your 3 week taper and then select a "reasonable pace" based on fitness (use HRM). No need to run fast or follow some planned workouts. Just run and then run some more. ( There are exceptions to this rule, but usually its genetic, youth, and rare to be able to wisk thru with low mileage.

I am currently averaging 35MPW for the year and only now started training for a thanksgiving marathon upping mileage to 50MPW and I am planning on just running it for fun. Not enough mileage to "race" it for example.

IMHO.

[Cruiser]

Checking in after a fantastic run today! Bluebird 55* with light and variable breezes.

Had a couple of those miles that just melted away. You know the kind, where running was no more difficult than sitting on the couch watching the football game? FKNA!

[NW_SKIER]

Checking in after a fantastic run today! Bluebird 55* with light and variable breezes.

Had a couple of those miles that just melted away. You know the kind, where running was no more difficult than sitting on the couch watching the football game? FKNA!

We had the same weather. Went out and set the "cruise control" for 10 miles. Felt good. Clean, cool, air, and warm sunshine. Makes a cruiser run feel truly amazing. Plus all the hops and grapes are nearly done, so the roads are quiet. I like it.

[Flyoverland Captive]

Did a leisurely six miles today in a new pair of Topo shoes; me likee very much. Saw a raghorn bull elk with his cow mingling with a herd of cattle, with the Sisters and Jefferson as a backdrop; wish I'd had my phone for a pic. I smiled all the way home, which is rare, as I'm usually sporting a grimace of pain by mile 6.

[nutmegchoi]

I don't know if it would make a difference, but I started using osmo hydration for women this past year. I like it and it seemed to help on long runs. I just use the active hydration since I'm not training for anything big. I haven't tried the pre training or recovery drink mixes. I've read many reviews from women who seem to notice a difference. There's not really any flavor choices, but the mango is fairly mild. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Thank you, Jenny.
I'm gonna give it a try!

If you want to run well in heat, you must train in heat. Period. Same for any other meteorologic condition.

Gatorade = fucking sugar-water. Find a real electrolyte drink (e.g., Tail Wind, Nuun, Gu2O [ I used to use CytoMax back in the day, but not sure that it's still around. Plus a lot of people thought that it tasted like shit. But I liked it.])

Gels and carbohydrate replacement dosn't matter for a half marathon. Speed work during both training and shorter races does.

But starting out too fast will fuck you up every time, unless you're an elite athlete. I wasn't, and going out too fast killed more than a few of my races.

Is cramping an issue at all?

In an earlier post, you wrote that you only ran 475 miles in twenty weeks. Double that! Not right away, of course, but over the next year or two. Really.

Finally, I've noticed that as I age, I have a more and more difficult time dealing with heat. As I am aware of your age, you may have to reconcile with the fact that you'll never mater the art of high-temp, long-distance running.

I know I need to run more in heat.
Planning to do that next Summer.

I have a major issue pacing.

My legs never cramped until Chicago.
I think it was the heatstroke created the symptom.

Sucks getting old.

This represents 23MPW average. If you want to run the marathon distance at your best potential and without slowing and as much pain you need to run more...a LOT more. Seriously. Up that to 40-50+ MPW minimum for the 8-10 weeks prior to your 3 week taper and then select a "reasonable pace" based on fitness (use HRM). No need to run fast or follow some planned workouts. Just run and then run some more. ( There are exceptions to this rule, but usually its genetic, youth, and rare to be able to wisk thru with low mileage.

I am currently averaging 35MPW for the year and only now started training for a thanksgiving marathon upping mileage to 50MPW and I am planning on just running it for fun. Not enough mileage to "race" it for example.

IMHO.

I'm beginning to realize that.
A lot of marathon training program suggest only upto 21 mile long run.
Since I have a hard time last 6 miles, I probably should add another 6 on top of full.
I'm not sure if my knees can handle 40-50 MPW for 8-10 weeks.
(how do you do that without busting your knees???)
But I will definitely up my MPW.

[bagtagley]

Viva nailed it with the heat. Heat and humidity are unavoidable here. Also, I end up doing the majority of my week-day runs/rides during lunch, so lots of peak heat, 90+ degree, high humidity activity. Some days suck, but even the worst days are way better than running on a treadmill, IMO. Generally, heat isn't as limiting as humidity. As the dew point creeps closer to and above 75, effort and expectations have to be adjusted. The way this Fall is going, 77 sounds delightful!

If you can pull off high mileage, it can only help your base. Personally, I've never done well with more than 40 MPW, and that's near the end of a training cycle. The trade-off is quality. Quality work becomes necessary in exchange for those extra miles...also IMO.

[Cruiser]

Unexpectedly found myself with an hour free in the middle of the day today. So I hastily threw my shoes on and got a quick trip down to the Platte and back. Color's fading along the front range but there are still some nice views to be had.

[smartyiak]

After 5yrs in Hoka, I just wanted to try something different. Why? I dunno, I love my Cliftonsbut grass is greener. Anyways, these came in the mail:



Notes: Only ran a 5K, but didn't rally notice the zero drop (maybe b/c Hoka are only 5mm?)
Definitely noticed the toebox:
1. look like a compete dork in these shoes; waaaay worse than the top picture suggests.
2. I'm amazed that more shoes (and ski boots, and all footwear) aren't designed to look like a foot. Love it.

Conclusion: Still early, but I'll still buy Hokas. There is just no comparing the cushioning...if this toebox were placed on a Clifton cushion/sole, I'd buy a 1,000 pair so I'd be set for life.

[brutah]

I really like the altra toebox as well and hokas are generally too narrow for my feet. I just bought my first pair of altra trail runners and my only concern is that the soles will wear out quickly and it seems like this has been a problem in the past.

[Viva]

The outsoles on the Altras that I've use wore quickly.

Sent from my XT1650 using TGR Forums mobile app

[smartyiak]

Not a deal breaker, but there's a fair bit of padding in the collar. Waaay too much.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

I like the fit of Altras but don't like the rockered heel and the soft lateral flex. Makes them feel tippy on tricky surfaces.

[mall walker]

might have had my best trail run ever today... 4.6 round, 1300’ with the top being very steep... never stopped to walk or rest, 12:24/mi. not that fast for some of you probably but for the vert and the angle it was killer.

btw sportiva akashas are really worth the hype. what a fucking good shoe.

[brutah]

might have had my best trail run ever today... 4.6 round, 1300’ with the top being very steep... never stopped to walk or rest, 12:24/mi. not that fast for some of you probably but for the vert and the angle it was killer.

btw sportiva akashas are really worth the hype. what a fucking good shoe.

what did you run? All my runs this time of year are focused around vert over horizontal mileage. heading up big beacon after work, a nice 4 mile out n back or 5 mile loop with 2000 feet of elevation gain.

[GeezerSteve]

FWIW, most experienced ultrarunners measure their training runs in terms of time (hours), not distance. It promotes keeping the HR down below MAF and burning body fat.

[mall walker]

what did you run? All my runs this time of year are focused around vert over horizontal mileage. heading up big beacon after work, a nice 4 mile out n back or 5 mile loop with 2000 feet of elevation gain.

nice I gotta do that soon. same objective here, vert over distance. just ski season training.

I run up Avenues Twin Peaks a couple times a week, saw Brody up there Monday so figure it’s a pro enough route

I usually go in the late am, mwf are running days and I’m typically up there somewhere between 10 and noon. if ya feel like it some day hit me up. I can’t always make it but lately have been moving more and more toward trail running as it moves me toward my goal of being a little weight weenie bitch who’s fast uphill on skis, and it’s somehow worlds easier on my legs/knees/ankles than road running.

/blog lol

[Bronco]

Just listened to Joe Rogan interview Courtney Dauwalter, the overall winner (by 10 hours?) of this year's Moab 200 (238 mile trail race). Seems like a pretty humble person.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8DfjXnIk6c

[mall walker]

FWIW, most experienced ultrarunners measure their training runs in terms of time (hours), not distance. It promotes keeping the HR down below MAF and burning body fat.

sadly I have a very limited amount of hours in which to do this =/ I'm usually running sort of "on the clock"

[Dantheman]

and it’s somehow worlds easier on my legs/knees/ankles than road running.

It's all about sheer force. On pavement, your foot strikes and stops. On dirt, your foot strikes and slides.

[GeezerSteve]

Trail running is also easier on the body because varied terrain = different length strides, different angles of foot impact = less repetitive motion

[brutah]

FWIW, most experienced ultrarunners measure their training runs in terms of time (hours), not distance. It promotes keeping the HR down below MAF and burning body fat.

well good thing I'm not an ultra runner haha. I find this concept interesting, but I don't even grasp how to run in terms of time. I usually run objectives like summits or loops rather than say I'm going to run a specific distance, but I am aware of the miles, vertical and estimated time it will take me before I head out the door. I am also really good at underestimating the time I will need to complete objectives and I partially blame strava for that since their algorithms find ways to shave time in any situation.

So you're saying instead of runnning 15-20 miles/wk, I should just try to run 3-4 hours/wk? it seems like it would accomplish the same thing. i do understand the concept of keeping your pace/HR lower can burn more fat, like being able to hold a convo during a run is a better pace to train at.

nice I gotta do that soon. same objective here, vert over distance. just ski season training.

I run up Avenues Twin Peaks a couple times a week, saw Brody up there Monday so figure it’s a pro enough route

I usually go in the late am, mwf are running days and I’m typically up there somewhere between 10 and noon. if ya feel like it some day hit me up. I can’t always make it but lately have been moving more and more toward trail running as it moves me toward my goal of being a little weight weenie bitch who’s fast uphill on skis, and it’s somehow worlds easier on my legs/knees/ankles than road running.

/blog lol

psssssh, all the "real" backcountry skiers in the SL valley strictly run grandeur in the fall.... "I can't believe that brody guy is a pro, I'm so much more core."

ya man, lets run sometime. late AM isn't the most convienent time to run for me but I should be able to make it work on some Mondays and Fridays, i'll hit you up soon!

[SkiCougar]

FWIW, most experienced ultrarunners measure their training runs in terms of time (hours), not distance. It promotes keeping the HR down below MAF and burning body fat.

Those ultras are nuts, I ran 26.2 twice and decided the costs vs. benefits from distance running were not worth continuing. 2 to 3 miles and maintaining my top speed for a 1/2 mile or better is good enough for me anymore,