Running, Anyone...?

[nutmegchoi]

I was horrible at tracking mileages, so now I use this app to track each pair.
But yeah.
It’s much better to have 2-3 pairs to rotate.

[Viva]

So, if ASICS Nimbus was too cushiony for me, would Hoka be too much?
Mizno and Brooks were too hard, didn’t like NIKE, Adidas, New Balance running shoes, I’m okay with ASICS GT 2000 and so far my favorite is ASICS Kayano.
I have bad knees from fencing and very little arch on my feet.

Stick with what works and doesn't result in weirdo biomechanics (i.e., pain). Cushioning can always be enhanced with a gel insole, if needed.

And how does fencing wreck ones knees? We're you stabbed there repeatedly?

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[nutmegchoi]

Stick with what works and doesn't result in weirdo biomechanics (i.e., pain). Cushioning can always be enhanced with a gel insole, if needed.

And how does fencing wreck ones knees? We're you stabbed there repeatedly?

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I was a semi professional growing up.
(junior high and high school, that’s how I got these massive thunder thighs)
Used to train 5 hours a day, 6 days a week for years.
A lot of movements in fencing require lots of pounding on knees.
Especially attack’s heavy on favored.



As results, I started developing early stage of arthritis on both knees.
I had to retire at age 16, lots of treatments and PT for years.
I couldn’t do any hard exercise for a decade and started running again in my late 20’s.
They are holding up alright, no sing of progress.
They do complain time to time, then I have to listen ie. rest.

[Viva]

I was a semi professional growing up.
(junior high and high school, that’s how I got these massive thunder thighs)
Used to train 5 hours a day, 6 days a week for years.
A lot of movements in fencing require lots of pounding on knees.
Especially attack’s heavy on favored.



As results, I started developing early stage of arthritis on both knees.
I had to retire at age 16, lots of treatments and PT for years.
I couldn’t do any hard exercise for a decade and started running again in my late 20’s.
They are holding up alright, no sing of progress.
They do complain time to time, then I have to listen ie. rest.

You've acquired some mad skills over the years. I like that you're still out there trying new shit and challenging yourself in different ways. Very sexy!

Given the condition of your knees, I would urge a move to trails soon, if you intend to continue running.

So is your bike a Kawasaki Ninja? It ought to be, given your sword skills.

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[nutmegchoi]

I’m trying to get out of New York!!!
Tetons are calling my name!!

No, I have 2013 CBR600RR Repsol.
Used to endurance race with buddies when I lived in Houston.
Been riding 29 years.

[4matic]

And how does fencing wreck ones knees?

Women are up to ten times more susceptible to knee injury. Hormones and anatomy..

Superfeet Copper is my preferred insert. I like them better than my custom ones.

[nutmegchoi]

And add another ten times on me since I tend to go at it first and think later.
I’m injury and accident prone.

[GeezerSteve]

Women are up to ten times more susceptible to knee injury. Hormones and anatomy.

Never heard that before, and it's not true among the population of experienced ultrarunners. AFAICT women ultrarunners tend to have fewer knee issues than men. Are you including IT band issues as part of "knee injury?"

Piriformis syndrome is the more common bane of women ultrarunners.

[2bjenny]

I was a semi professional growing up.
(junior high and high school, that’s how I got these massive thunder thighs)
Used to train 5 hours a day, 6 days a week for years.
A lot of movements in fencing require lots of pounding on knees.
Especially attack’s heavy on favored.



As results, I started developing early stage of arthritis on both knees.
I had to retire at age 16, lots of treatments and PT for years.
I couldn’t do any hard exercise for a decade and started running again in my late 20’s.
They are holding up alright, no sing of progress.
They do complain time to time, then I have to listen ie. rest.

That's so cool that you fenced! I tried it for just a few years as an adult when I lived in Pittsburgh and loved it, I liked epee the best. . My best friend from grad school got me in to it. She also got me in to trying rowing, which I also loved. Rowed sweeps 8's and 4's for a couple of years in the 'burgh too.

I have three different shoes that I rotate. I've been curious about trying the Hoka's but I've been happy with what I've been running in - salomons, la sportiva and saucony.

[4matic]

Anecdotally you are mistaken. It's been a known issue for decades:

https://www.sports-health.com/blog/w...k-acl-injuries

Statistics revealed that women are 2 to 10 times more likely to experience an ACL injury than men.

[GeezerSteve]

Statistics revealed that women are 2 to 10 times more likely to experience an ACL injury than men.

Sure, that's true for ACL injuries. We're talking about running injuries. This is a running thread.

[nutmegchoi]

That's so cool that you fenced! I tried it for just a few years as an adult when I lived in Pittsburgh and loved it, I liked epee the best. . My best friend from grad school got me in to it. She also got me in to trying rowing, which I also loved. Rowed sweeps 8's and 4's for a couple of years in the 'burgh too.

I have three different shoes that I rotate. I've been curious about trying the Hoka's but I've been happy with what I've been running in - salomons, la sportiva and saucony.

Hey, fellow fencer!
I only did foil because the time I played.
Women were only allowed to play Foil back in the day.
I think they finally accepted women’s Epee 1996 olympics.
I never got to try Epee and Sabre.
I would’ve slayed Sabre, too.
Literally.

[4matic]

Sure, that's true for ACL injuries. We're talking about running injuries. This is a running thread.

Except that she was referencing a knee injury from fencing.

[nutmegchoi]

Mine was knee injury alright.
They stuck needles to drain fluid.

[hutash]

Running may not be the best sport for you with so much knee issue at your age. My knee doc would certainly think so. At least off set it with cycling, it tends to counter balance the tight hamstrings that put additional stress on knees. (This was from my knee orthopod who was the LA area knee guru.)

[nutmegchoi]

Yeah, I hear you.
That’s why I put most mileages on treadmill and enjoy outdoors only on Sundays.
Saving my knees for good ones.

I really would like to transfer to trail so I can last longer (as years).

I love how running pounds my heart, makes me sweat and pushes me to the limit.
I won’t stop until I can’t.

[4matic]

You can adjust your running style a bit. I did through trial and error and it helps. Although my adjusted style is why I tripped and gnarled my hand. I love running for the reasons you stated. It is efficient. Combined with weight training it is one of the most efficient paths to complete fitness.

*mid foot strike
*knees a little more bent.
*forward lean torso

[nutmegchoi]

*mid foot strike
*knees a little more bent.
*forward lean torso

With that combination, I will definitely go face plant! lol

I am a heel striker with low angle knee bent and upright torso.

I’ll give it a try when I run in trail at low speed to see how I feel.

[GeezerSteve]

It seems that there's a wide range of recommendations from knee docs. If osteoarthritis is the issue, my orthos/sports medicine docs say to let pain be your guide re whether you run. All 3 of them also warn against bicycling as your sole leg exercise because it neglects development of some muscles that are important for stemming progression of OA. More specifically, they recommend promoting better balanced leg muscles by hiking uphill or skinning or XC skiing uphill (or using equivalent exercise equipment) 1 hour for each 2-3 hours you bicycle. (I wish I would have known that back when I bicycled 10,000 miles/year.)

Except that she was referencing a knee injury from fencing.

nutmeg made no mention of an ACL rupture, and her description of her injury give no such indication. It sounds like she had some young person knee injury, maybe chondromalacia, which correlates to developing patellofemoral osteoarthritis. ACL rupture is a very specific knee injury and represents a small fraction of knee injuries that prevent runners from running. (Everyone runner I've known who had an ACL rupture resumed running after surgery.)

ETA: From https://runnersconnect.net/running-injuries-in-women/

But the difference is not quite as drastic as popular wisdom might hold—a 2002 study of around two thousand patients at a Vancouver, Canada sports injury clinic found that women represented 54% of [knee] injuries, with men taking up the other 46%.

[nutmegchoi]

My symptoms were pain on both side, swelling and collecting fluid.
I don’t think there was any tear.
Doctor simply told me I can’t pound my knees anymore that will guaranteed to lead to full blown arthritis.
I was only 16, so I don’t remember much about what he exactly said.
All I remember is that devastating sentence and needles sticking between my bones.
That was terrible.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Doctor simply told me I can’t pound my knees anymore that will guaranteed to lead to full blown arthritis.

Have you seen a doc who works with runners, or at least athletes, or better yet, a doc, who is an athlete of some sort? I've been told all sorts of horrible gloom and doom about my body's impending collapse by doctors, even specialists who aren't used to working with athletes. Working with someone who understand why we push ourselves and just how capable our bodies are of adapting to imperfections makes all the difference. Same goes for PT's. My current go-to medical practitioner is a PT who was formerly a pro cyclist. She understands even better than I do why someone might undertake a massive physical endeavor when already dealing with an injury. And she listens to what has helped me cope with problems in the past and uses that information to help me make new plans for dealing with shit. It's a lot more helpful than the typical doctor advice of "It hurts? You should stop." Of course it hurts, you idiot, I'm not 25 anymore.

[nutmegchoi]

Yeah, I did see a reputable orthopedic surgeon who’s specialized in knees.
He confirmed I have no sign of arthritis and everything looks “okay”.
He wasn’t crazy about the idea of me running long distance.
He commended to pay attention on my knees, ice and rest if they hurt, make sure always running in good shoes, try to get off pavement as much as I can, strength train muscles around knees and come back to see him if there’s constant pain last longer than few days.
I’m following everything and so far so good.

[babybear]

I think I have rec'd him here before but my neighbor, Eric Orton, is an awesome running coach. he was the coach in the book "Born to Run" who helped Chris McDougall overcome his chronic running injuries
Anyhow he suggests this short stride, fore foot strike technique that has worked well for me (and many others)- maybe check out some of his drills on his site http://www.runningwitheric.com/video...ric-run-drills

I worked out with him for a couple yrs maybe like 6-7 yrs ago and he transformed me into a ma-cheen
it's funny seeing him run by in the hood bc you can pick out his running technique from a mile away

also as far as running sneaks I have been on salomons for the past few yrs- I like the last of the speedcross series and it's nice bc you can get essentially the same shoe in a gore-tex/ waterproof version for winter/ off-season and then a more breathable version for summer without having to break your feet into different shoes.
I also have horrible bone spurs from ski boots so I like the lacing system of the salomons

edit: wanted to add I LOVE that you ladies fenced- I totally wanted to be a fencer too when I was a kid- obviously we would have all been school yard friends

[nutmegchoi]

I know being a heel striker isn’t the best choice for my knees and always wondered about forefoot strike.
I have a friend who’s natural forefoot striker and she never has any issues from running.
I also see some runners at races who seemed to run so much lighter than I am.
I tried myself few times, but it felt so weird and I quit because I felt like I was doing something wrong to my body.
I’ll study the website and try out some drills after the race.
Thanks for the info, b-bear!

[nutmegchoi]

edit: wanted to add I LOVE that you ladies fenced- I totally wanted to be a fencer too when I was a kid- obviously we would have all been school yard friends

We could’ve been The Three Musketeers!