Las Vegas shooting thread moved to polyass

[mecc69]

My main argument, is that violent crime has gone down, as gun ownership has risen. I simply asked for an explanation of that.

Gun ownership is not way up. It's just that ~5% of the gun owners own half the guns.

Possibly it's because while the number of guns in circulation has risen, the percentage of gun owners has hasn't changed or in fact has dropped. Couple that with Mofro's studies showing that reducing exposure to firearms reduces your chances of being murdered or committing suicide and it isn't too hard to see what is going on.

I've explained this to you before.

The point you are parroting is straight from the NRA. There are a few other theories as well: the recession, legalized abortion, increased policing, an aging population, leaded gas, the US incarceration rate and social programs to name a few.

[KenJongIll]

This type of behavior/mentality, is what causes all the gun violence in the US. It's not me, it's not anyone in the guns thread, its fuckers like this, that think they are badass. This is where your gun violence comes from.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZ2F7_2j...ateskoebeen100

Exactly....just like the young teens I mentioned sitting in the park talking about which gun they wanted.

[Bobby Stainless]

Your grasp on what constitutes "fact" is quite tenuous.

There's quite a bit in your numerous posts here that I might comment in, but this one struck me as particularly odd.

Sent from my XT1650 using TGR Forums mobile app

So everyone is good right? http://fox59.com/2017/09/25/boy-dies...rom-sex-abuse/

We just need to love each other? gtfo with that fairy tale bullshit.

[Bobby Stainless]

Gun ownership is not way up. It's just that ~5% of the gun owners own half the guns.

Possibly it's because while the number of guns in circulation has risen, the percentage of gun owners has hasn't changed or in fact has dropped. Couple that with Mofro's studies showing that reducing exposure to firearms reduces your chances of being murdered or committing suicide and it isn't too hard to see what is going on.

I've explained this to you before.

The point you are parroting is straight from the NRA. There are a few other theories as well: the recession, legalized abortion, increased policing, an aging population, leaded gas, the US incarceration rate and social programs to name a few.

Nice. Gather up some cited data, on those, like I did.

And you a parroting the other side. That's how this works.

[Viva]

So everyone is good right? http://fox59.com/2017/09/25/boy-dies...rom-sex-abuse/

We just need to love each other? gtfo with that fairy tale bullshit.

Now you're just being angry and petulant. This is not conducive to critical thinking.

Sent from my XT1650 using TGR Forums mobile app

[DBdude]

the reasons for gun deaths decreasing has been written about. what some people think is as follows

more and better policing
decrease use of alcohol
less lead poisoning from lead paint
better economy over the years starting in the 80s

[Bobby Stainless]

Fair enough. Many contributing factors, to our society becoming less violent.

I still feel this is a emotionally driven issue. As long as that continues, and those that want change, forget in 10 days. Then the situation will stay the same.

I don't think the US is getting more dangerous. I don't buy into the fear.

If the goal is to save 300-350 mass shooting victims a year, by banning bump stocks, hi cap mags, ARs, AKs, etc.

Good luck with that fight. I don't own any of those things, nor do I want to.

Those items are not the issue though, and this is all a exercise in who is the most altruistic.

[Bobby Stainless]

If you are able to do some basic math, you will see the numbers on this website (http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/) show that 2017 is better than 2016.

There was a 50% drop in mass shooting victims, over last year, until this event.

[DBdude]

Fair enough. Many contributing factors, to our society becoming less violent.

I still feel this is a emotionally driven issue. As long as that continues, and those that want change, forget in 10 days. Then the situation will stay the same.

I don't think the US is getting more dangerous. I don't buy into the fear.

If the goal is to save 300-350 mass shooting victims a year, by banning bump stocks, hi cap mags, ARs, AKs, etc.

Good luck with that fight. I don't own any of those things, nor do I want to.

Those items are not the issue though, and this is all a exercise in who is the most altruistic.

I agree, america is less dangerous. there is no doubt about the fact crime has been dropping for years

mass shooting are a health issue really, what changes will be made, I don't know. over ninety people a day in the US are killed by guns, around 30 of those 90 are children. the majority of those killed know the assailant. I believe this is what needs to change

[DBdude]

Fair enough. Many contributing factors, to our society becoming less violent.

I still feel this is a emotionally driven issue. As long as that continues, and those that want change, forget in 10 days. Then the situation will stay the same.

I don't think the US is getting more dangerous. I don't buy into the fear.

If the goal is to save 300-350 mass shooting victims a year, by banning bump stocks, hi cap mags, ARs, AKs, etc.

Good luck with that fight. I don't own any of those things, nor do I want to.

Those items are not the issue though, and this is all a exercise in who is the most altruistic.

BD, you are a stand up guy, but you are not the problem. who is the problem, is really the difficult question. people seem to kill the people they know. you are right, these mass shootings bring out emotions. I think if we could get a handle on the day to day gun violence in this country perhaps the mass shootings would decrease.

[Lindahl]

My main argument, is that violent crime has gone down, as gun ownership has risen. I simply asked for an explanation of that.
No one has given me one. Except we stopped using leaded gas.
You can say whatever you want, but violent crime is WAY down. And gun ownership is WAY up. Hopefully you can understand the FBI cited graphs I posted.
Feel free to explain to me how I am wrong about those two facts, because that has been my argument.
I just want an explanation, of why this has happened.

Dude, this is really fucking simple. Ignoring the fact that crime has dropped over this same period, and that when crime drops, so does gun violence...

Someone just posted a few pages back a graph showing that the percentage of households that own guns has actually dropped, even though the total number of guns owned has increased.

Two different scenarios:
1) Bob bought another 10 guns. That probably won't increase the chances of gun violence.
2) Bob has 6 neighbors, one of which is crazy, and they all buy guns, the chance of gun violence probably increases.

You keep acting like we're talking about scenario 1) where 10 more guns are purchased. We're not. We're talking about scenario 2) where 6 more guns were purchased. We want to eliminate or add friction to some people (households) acquiring guns (and lots of ammo). Very few of us care whether or not a sane and stable person wants to buy an additional gun (and lots of ammo). When most of us say we want to limit access, you're interpreting it wrong.

We also need a way to be able to revoke access and re-evaluate access. People are not static creatures. Some of us become insane or unstable over time. Some of us become more stable over time. Signals like increased ammo or gun purchase could be used as triggers of re-evaluation. This area is a bit murkier of course.

Above is one aspect of increased gun control. The other aspect of increased gun control is guns and accessories designed to inflict higher numbers of casualties. Semi-autos (some kinds), autos, large magazines, bump stocks, etc. That shit is just straight up fucked imo. Should be illegal unless your job requires that kind of firepower. And to get that through your job should be dramatically more rigorously difficult to prove you will use and store it responsibly.

Finally, we also need to address the issue culturally - I would argue that this perhaps one of the bigger reasons why the US is different from other countries in regards to gun violence (especially incidents like Las Vegas). I'm not sure how this would be done. Greater minds than mine should work on it. But, as just one example: the fact that illegal machine guns are considered 'cool' in some circles only makes it easier for asshats like Stephen Paddock to gain access to them illegally. If the only reason someone bought a machine gun was to commit a mass murder (instead of just to look 'cool' amongst his circle), then I believe it would be a HELL of a lot harder to buy one off the black market. I'm willing to bet that the dudes that sold Stephen his guns feel pretty fucking shitty right now.

[hatchgreenchile]

You’re going to have to get more specific than “semi-auto”, that’s a very broad description that covers most guns available.

[Lindahl]

You’re going to have to get more specific than “semi-auto”, that’s a very broad description that covers most guns available.

I'll leave that for other, more knowledgable, people to more narrowly define.

[Bunion 2020]

https://www.stackingbodies.com/

Yeah, nothing weird about this.

[MultiVerse]

There was a 50% drop in mass shooting victims, over last year, until this event.

This statement is weird. If we exclude mass shooting victims then deaths from mass shootings have gone down? The first rule of the Tautology club is the Tautology club's first rule?

[Buster Highmen]

You’re going to have to get more specific than “semi-auto”, that’s a very broad description that covers most guns available.

How about a hand then? Break it down for us.

[k2skier112]

You’re going to have to get more specific than “semi-auto”, that’s a very broad description that covers most guns available.

you know that's an absolutely false statement, completely and 100% definable

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_firearm
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...n-definitions/

The vast majority of modern guns sold and collected in the US are semi-automatic, which means they fire a single shot with every pull of the trigger, but automatically reload between shots. That’s in contrast to full-automatic weapons, as well as single-shot guns that require the operator to “cock” the gun or hand-feed ammunition between shots. (There are a variety of sporting weapons that are single shot, such as lever-action, bolt-action, and breech-loading rifles, pump-action shotguns, and many revolvers.)

[Bobby Stainless]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...005-story.html

Wonder if this is true.

This statement is weird. If we exclude mass shooting victims then deaths from mass shootings have gone down? The first rule of the Tautology club is the Tautology club's first rule?

Until this last shooting... Mass shooting deaths were down 50% over last year.

They are now down 25%.

What are you having trouble with?

[hatchgreenchile]

you know that's an absolutely false statement, completely and 100% definable

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_firearm
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...n-definitions/

The vast majority of modern guns sold and collected in the US are semi-automatic, which means they fire a single shot with every pull of the trigger, but automatically reload between shots. That’s in contrast to full-automatic weapons, as well as single-shot guns that require the operator to “cock” the gun or hand-feed ammunition between shots. (There are a variety of sporting weapons that are single shot, such as lever-action, bolt-action, and breech-loading rifles, pump-action shotguns, and many revolvers.)

This was in reply to Lindahls unedited comment that semi auto is “straight up fucked up”. I’m well aware of the differences and how prevalent they are in our society.

The conversation goes nowhere if we leave it as broad as “ban semi auto”

[GeezerSteve]

Only BeerDrinker would find cause to celebrate a massacre of 58 innocent people. Pathetic

[MultiVerse]

Until this last shooting... Mass shooting deaths were down 50% over last year.

They are now down 25%.

What are you having trouble with?

The "until the last shooting" part? Would it make sense to say at the end of January of a new year that X is only 12% of Y when Y covers the entire year? For example, if shootings are down 25% compared with an entire previous year then what % of the year (in days) remains in this year? It's as if mass shootings aren't down at all unless we, "exclude mass shooting victims."

[Buster Highmen]

The conversation goes nowhere if we leave it as broad as “ban semi auto”

Then don't leave it that way.

[Bobby Stainless]

The "until the last shooting" part? Would it make sense to say at the end of January of a new year that X is only 12% of Y when Y covers the entire year? For example, if shootings are down 25% compared with an entire previous year then what % of the year (in days) remains in this year? It's as if mass shooting aren't down at all unless we, "exclude mass shooting victims."

That is assuming one wouldn't happen. Another could happen as well.

I guess what I need to do is get the average per month and apply it to 9 months.

We were at 293 this time in 2016, and 215 before this last shooting.

Its now 293 to 274 (with this last shooting being the worst one yet).

[Bobby Stainless]

Anyone reading about "bump stocks" being approved in 2010?

I don't want to post something that isn't true.

[frorider]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...005-story.html

Wonder if this is true.



Until this last shooting... Mass shooting deaths were down 50% over last year.

They are now down 25%.

What are you having trouble with?

OK Jesus Christ i have to step in and educate your ass. Mass shootings are inherently a statistically noisy phenomenon....



So when you make an incredibly stupid and statistically meaningless comparison like that your credibility drops to zero. Like a retarded republican congressman walking in with a snowball saying ‘it was cold today, climate change is a hoax!1!!’

Ok now we can return to the conversation. We will just politely ignore your stupid post.