ON3P SKIS Discussion

[undertow2]

Definitely.

Looking forward to that BG comparison N1CK, wondering about the asym.

So I am curious... Do you own the 98 and is it your daily driver...?

[ScrewYou]

I do not. I would like one. Hopefully someone who does can weigh in further than my one-liner.

I had the viciks and tychoons as daily drivers for a while, and use big wrens now. on3ps new wren line, being a bit stiffer, is a nice american made replacement for the SN series.

[Orthoski]

Looking for advice here: would Wren 98 would be a good replacement for mine SN100 as a DD? Got Steeple 112 for those good days and touring and want something narrower for east coast and when the snow gets packed. I'm 6.3, 185lbs. Thank you.

One of the skis that doesn't get mentioned a lot on TGR given the preponderance of people lucky enough to call West resorts home is the Wren 88. Demo'ed them this year on the East coast and it's absolutely fantastic for real-life conditions. One of the issues I ran into with traditional carvers is that they're excellent on ice, but on any given day the resort is going to have that one trail on which they blew a bunch of man made snow, or perhaps a couple inches fell overnight, and it's nice to have a ski that's fun on that, too. The Wren 88s have that stiff, locked in, damp but lively ON3P feel, but easily break out of turns and have rocker that makes a little bit of soft snow fun. They felt crisper than the 98s on firmer groomers, understanding that at any out West resort the 98s would be more versatile. Conversations with the rep suggest they're slightly stiffer than the 98s as well. In any case, loved them enough to buy a pair both for myself and a family member. My daily driver has become increasingly wider over the years, but the 88s are an absolute gem for the East coast or as a firm-snow quiver ski, so thought I'd throw them out there for the less fortunate geographic skiers like myself.

[Robik]

One of the skis that doesn't get mentioned a lot on TGR given the preponderance of people lucky enough to call West resorts home is the Wren 88. Demo'ed them this year on the East coast and it's absolutely fantastic for real-life conditions. One of the issues I ran into with traditional carvers is that they're excellent on ice, but on any given day the resort is going to have that one trail on which they blew a bunch of man made snow, or perhaps a couple inches fell overnight, and it's nice to have a ski that's fun on that, too. The Wren 88s have that stiff, locked in, damp but lively ON3P feel, but easily break out of turns and have rocker that makes a little bit of soft snow fun. They felt crisper than the 98s on firmer groomers, understanding that at any out West resort the 98s would be more versatile. Conversations with the rep suggest they're slightly stiffer than the 98s as well. In any case, loved them enough to buy a pair both for myself and a family member. My daily driver has become increasingly wider over the years, but the 88s are an absolute gem for the East coast or as a firm-snow quiver ski, so thought I'd throw them out there for the less fortunate geographic skiers like myself.

This.

[optics]

This.

Just posted a minty pair, if anyone's looking.

[MHSP1497]

One of the skis that doesn't get mentioned a lot on TGR given the preponderance of people lucky enough to call West resorts home is the Wren 88. Demo'ed them this year on the East coast and it's absolutely fantastic for real-life conditions. One of the issues I ran into with traditional carvers is that they're excellent on ice, but on any given day the resort is going to have that one trail on which they blew a bunch of man made snow, or perhaps a couple inches fell overnight, and it's nice to have a ski that's fun on that, too. The Wren 88s have that stiff, locked in, damp but lively ON3P feel, but easily break out of turns and have rocker that makes a little bit of soft snow fun. They felt crisper than the 98s on firmer groomers, understanding that at any out West resort the 98s would be more versatile. Conversations with the rep suggest they're slightly stiffer than the 98s as well. In any case, loved them enough to buy a pair both for myself and a family member. My daily driver has become increasingly wider over the years, but the 88s are an absolute gem for the East coast or as a firm-snow quiver ski, so thought I'd throw them out there for the less fortunate geographic skiers like myself.

My wife feels the exact same way about her Wren 88's. Though, in her case, I had them use the softer fiberglass and carbon to account for her smaller size/weight. She's a West Coast skier, but wanted something more "groomer friendly" than the 98's or her 107mm Nordica Wildfire's. She doesn't do much off-piste skiing and has that annoyingly perfect Stein Erikson form. She's found the 88's to be easy to ski in every condition and has commented that "they just want to go faster."

[ScrewYou]

I want wren 88s for zoomin' around, but im afraid im too heavy for the 184. The 186 tychoon was about my minimum. The 88 is supposedly stiffer than the tychoon tho, so i really dont know.

[phallic-menace]

Anyone able to weigh in on 184 wrenegade 108 tip stiffness compared to 186 kartel 108. Kartel tip same as it's tail stiffness wise?

[N1CK.]

'15/16 Billy Goat 184cm vs '17/18 Billy Goat 189cm

First it's worth mentioning that I think the '15 BG in 184cm is really good ski. Great in anything remotely soft and capable of making almost any shape turns at any speed. Stable as hell and super fun in trees on some fresh snow. I'm trying to talk about how the subtle design tweaks all add up. The tips are very similar and any changes aren't easily apparent. The sidecut tweaks are invisible to the eye but seem to have a big effect. The tails are the obvious design change/progression and bring real tangible improvement.

Conditions were great, sun was shining and the hill was mostly empty. I skied about 8-9 laps on the new skis and a few more runs on my '15/16s for comparisons.

Groomers: laps were on perfect corduroy. The '17 are a damp long ski and have a speed limit way past my own. When running flat the tips wander less than my old BGs, and with either design just think about an edge and any loose, wandery sensation disappears. If you go by ON3P's word it's the added straight sections in the sidecut to transition from the reverse tip to the traditional sidecut and into the tail taper. It feels at least as good as my '15s. Slight (placebo?) advantage to the new '17 model.

Pow: in anything soft either ski is a really fun choice. The floaty, surfy feeling of the RES is so good once you get used to it. The day I had these out we had fresh snow and favorable wind loading all over the hill, so pow turns were everywhere. Several runs just felt bottomless even though I was on less than a foot of soft now. This is one of the most FUN pow skis I've been on to date. They're just easy to ski. My '15 BGs are the same way to be honest, so I'd rate pow as a close draw, with slight nod to the new design.

Refrozen chop and shit snow: We also got all that fresh on top of two dry weeks and lots of skied up freeze/thaw conditions, so there were dust on unbreakable crust to icebergs spread around too. These new BGs excelled in these conditions. No deflection to speak of (especially at higher speeds) and they turned easily for their length. My BGs are great in these conditions but the new model was a touch better. I'm not sure what design tweaks contributed to that most.

Tips: the tips aren't very different than my '15/16s, aside from the extra cms. The BG can plow into over and through about anything. The amount of rocker, height and length are all dialed, as is the flex.

So the tails; this is where the significant differences are between models. It's really hard to put into words. I spent lap after lap trying to focus on what the tails were doing. The extra tail taper off the uphill ski makes a noticeable improvement in how 'loose' you want the skis to be. It wasn't as noticeable on groomers and harder snow compared to my older skis, but MUCH more so in powder and skied up or crappy snow. There is zero hookiness or unwanted rudder effect, yet for as loose as they CAN be, you still have all the edge grip you want. I traced the tips and tails out and the differences are subtle. The outside tip edge might have a 1mm difference (?) compared to my model, and the tails have closer to 2-33mm difference over the last 6-7 inches of the tails. these small incremental changes have resulted in a much better ski outside of awesome pow days. I've actually wondered if I could grind my tails to match the new shape but I wouldn't want to risk trashing an already excellent ski.

I skied a few good tree runs and found the 189s to be a bit much for me, but I wasn't skiing very quickly. The 189s are easier to ski the more speed you carry. The sum of the little tweaks; straight sidecut sections, offset taper, magic dust, whatever ... the result is the new version is easier to ski than the old and definitely a more versatile 'big' ski everywhere outside of straight up pow days, in crud snow, and on groomers. My 184s are an amazing ski, no doubt about it. The new design is improved. I think I'm going to order a new pair, but I will have a hard time deciding on length.

Side by side, with a ruler lining up the recommended line


Most of the length difference is in the tips. Hard to see any difference in shape.


Tails for comparison (skis lined up on rec'd line) Taper offset is visible.


BOOM! Subtle but significant refinements that make an already great ski even better.

[Sessiøn]

I want wren 88s for zoomin' around, but im afraid im too heavy for the 184. The 186 tychoon was about my minimum. The 88 is supposedly stiffer than the tychoon tho, so i really dont know.

Add a full sheet of carbon......or 2.

[ScrewYou]

Add a full sheet of carbon......or 2.

I was talking about grabbing one on sale. I wish I had the cake to customize an 88, but im saving for that custom BG this fall.

Nice review N1CK.

[TahoeJ]

Thanks for the review Nick - what's your height / weight for reference?

[N1CK.]

Thanks for the review Nick - what's your height / weight for reference?

I'm 5'10 and 185#.

[ScrewYou]

'15/16 Billy Goat 184cm vs '17/18 Billy Goat 189cm

Refrozen chop and shit snow: We also got all that fresh on top of two dry weeks and lots of skied up freeze/thaw conditions, so there were dust on unbreakable crust to icebergs spread around too. These new BGs excelled in these conditions. No deflection to speak of (especially at higher speeds) and they turned easily for their length. My BGs are great in these conditions but the new model was a touch better. I'm not sure what design tweaks contributed to that most.

Could that just be the extra length (weight) deflected less, and was more steadfast?

[N1CK.]

Could that just be the extra length (weight) deflected less, and was more steadfast?

Yes, totally.
I'm not the best for putting into words why a ski works better/worse, but having the chance to compare two recent versions I thought I'd take a crack at it.

[ScrewYou]

You did great, thanks for taking the time. I wasnt tryna bust your chops. I was wondering too.

Whats up with the 2018 tip rocker, is there more? Is the 2018 stiffer, same flex?

[Bosco]

I didn't see this being discussed, but it appears the ON3P website requires an account to view its contents? I would expect this to be an option, as I don't like handing out my info unless necessary.

[TahoeJ]

I'm 5'10 and 185#.

Thanks, good to know since I'm 5' 11" and 170-180. I may pull some bindings off my 186cm BG's from 13/14 (I don't want the weight of Guardians if I never use them for touring anymore) and my friend kind of wants the skis, so I wasn't sure if I'd get new ones at 184 or 189. Given when I'm most likely to use them I was leaning towards 189...

[Paul Blart]

I didn't see this being discussed, but it appears the ON3P website requires an account to view its contents? I would expect this to be an option, as I don't like handing out my info unless necessary.

Yah from what I can tell it looks like they're doing the website over and it should be up and running shortly. If you read the page it says enter your info and we'll notify you when the shop is open.

[N1CK.]

You did great, thanks for taking the time. I wasnt tryna bust your chops. I was wondering too.

Whats up with the 2018 tip rocker, is there more? Is the 2018 stiffer, same flex?

Tips on the new version have just about the same rise over a slightly longer rockerline. I can't tell if they're any stiffer than my '15. I have new Wren 108 and neither BG feel quite as stiff as those. Maybe Iggy or Powtron can offer actual info on the flex.

Thanks, good to know since I'm 5' 11" and 170-180. I may pull some bindings off my 186cm BG's from 13/14 (I don't want the weight of Guardians if I never use them for touring anymore) and my friend kind of wants the skis, so I wasn't sure if I'd get new ones at 184 or 189. Given when I'm most likely to use them I was leaning towards 189...

I read that my 184s were the 186s with 2cm cut of the tails. I believe I could be loving the 189s in no time, so long as we aren't skiing trees and moguls all day. The longer ski was surprisingly easy to ski for me, and I'm not the best skier on the mountain.

[iggyskier]

I didn't see this being discussed, but it appears the ON3P website requires an account to view its contents? I would expect this to be an option, as I don't like handing out my info unless necessary.

It's just a password protected landing page while we update the website. Website will be back to normal tomorrow.

[undertow2]

Not to get to personal here, but holy shit does the 108 give me a boner... Absolutely loved my 189 98s and ordered 189 108s for next year... I have no clue how the crew will improve th current Wren lineup...

[iggyskier]

Not to get to personal here, but holy shit does the 108 give me a boner... Absolutely loved my 189 98s and ordered 189 108s for next year... I have no clue how the crew will improve th current Wren lineup...

We're asking the same question right now about both the Wren and Kartel line. That said, to add a bit of fuel to that fire, and to preempt the (minor) beatdown I will take for saying "we can't sell a wide wrenegade"....we're also working on a Wren 114 right now. Same updated Wren rocker we've been loving, so not the true flat-tail gun of the OG, but will be a great soft snow option for those just not suited for RES or the Kartel line. Direct only for now, as we expect the volume to be small. Details should be out soon.

Oh and with the new website live, and the fact that I am only a web developer a few days out of the year...there is surely going to be some hiccups. We already know of a couple we're working on, but if you see anything that looks wrong, doesn't work, or just plain sucks, shoot me an email (scott AT on3pskis.com) so I can get it fixed up. Thanks!

[ScrewYou]

Wren 114 sounds amazing.

[nyskirat]

Wren 114? Damn, new comp ski for your FWT skiers?