4FRNT Renegade ~ Hand built in SLC.

[Mustonen]

given I'm 5'9" 175 on the 296s.

Whoa.

[skinipenem]

Whoa.

Errrrr 196s not 296s. lol! My balls aren't that big.

[Lantern]

Well considering the current weather in CO, comparisons to owls will not be quickly forthcoming.

Mounting Owls I seem to remember straight pull was flat to the ski, new ones the tape was just off. Close enough to not really care...

[Rob Stokes]

Renagade Vs Hoji powder performance.

Been skiing some Hoji 187 the last few days in 20-35cm of powder and have really enjoyed them. They float well for the size and are nimble and fast.

However, the tips have been a little prone to diving on me but they are only 130mm and I mounted on the line which is a much more forward mount than I am used too. Also the snow hasn't been the lightest so when skis dive they get clogged down a little.

Anyway my question-how do the Renegades compare? Obviously they are 10mm fatter in the waist but they are only 7mm fatter at the tip and have less rocker and a stiffer flex.

Are they much floaty-er in the pow? Especially with regards to an unsinkable tip. Also is the mount point about the same distance back from ski centre?

Cheers

[gramboh]

Renagade Vs Hoji powder performance.

Been skiing some Hoji 187 the last few days in 20-35cm of powder and have really enjoyed them. They float well for the size and are nimble and fast.

However, the tips have been a little prone to diving on me but they are only 130mm and I mounted on the line which is a much more forward mount than I am used too. Also the snow hasn't been the lightest so when skis dive they get clogged down a little.

Anyway my question-how do the Renegades compare? Obviously they are 10mm fatter in the waist but they are only 7mm fatter at the tip and have less rocker and a stiffer flex.

Are they much floaty-er in the pow? Especially with regards to an unsinkable tip. Also is the mount point about the same distance back from ski centre?

Cheers

I find the Renegades float a lot better in powder and have a more pivoty/smeary feeling to them, and they also just feel beefier. I haven't really felt tip dive was a big issue on either ski although it happens from time to time in heavy snow although I haven't had much heavy/deep snow days on the Hojis as compared to the Renegades. In summary: for me, the Renegades are noticeably better/more fun/more powerful in soft snow.

Caveat for my opinion is that my Hojis (Pilsner graphic) have Radicals/touring boots and the Renegades (OG version) are Guardians/alpine boots. I have a new pair of 15/16 Renegades waiting to be deployed, possibly this weekend, so I will update this accordingly.

[Rob Stokes]

Cheers for the info. Is the mount point about the same between the two?

[SnowMoJo]

Cheers for the info. Is the mount point about the same between the two?

6cm

On the 195/196cm Hoji/Rene, 6cm back from centre. The Hoji's (some) have the mid-mount line on the sidewall, the Renes don't. That may change with each new press that comes out.

[DGamms]

I've only skied the Hojis as demos, but I've owned the EHPs and Rens for years, both in a 186 cm mounted on the line (about - 5cm to -6cm from true center on both). I'm 150 lbs without gear.

IMHO, these skis aren't designed to have unsinkable tips. They are not S7s. They do not have soft shovels and tip widths of greater than 140mm.

These skis "porpoise" in pow. The skis go under the surface of the snow, then you adjust your weight, and the tips rise back up and skim near the surface.

And to me, this is the quality that makes the Hoji series skis unique. The tips may slice above and below the surface, and the straight shape and new school forward mount mean that you get this frictionless feel from the ski in soft snow. These skis make pow skiing fast! There is no "plow boat" effect like the S7, where the fat soft tip rides above the surface all the time and causes notable deceleration.

[Lindahl]

I've only skied the Hojis as demos, but I've owned the EHPs and Rens for years, both in a 186 cm mounted on the line (about - 5cm to -6cm from true center on both). I'm 150 lbs without gear.

IMHO, these skis aren't designed to have unsinkable tips. They are not S7s. They do not have soft shovels and tip widths of greater than 140mm.

These skis "porpoise" in pow. The skis go under the surface of the snow, then you adjust your weight, and the tips rise back up and skim near the surface.

And to me, this is the quality that makes the Hoji series skis unique. The tips may slice above and below the surface, and the straight shape and new school forward mount mean that you get this frictionless feel from the ski in soft snow. These skis make pow skiing fast! There is no "plow boat" effect like the S7, where the fat soft tip rides above the surface all the time and causes notable deceleration.

What he said. They're designed with a focus on skiing fast, not slow. Thus, float is not their strong suit (you get better float by going fast). Definitely the wrong ski for some people - they can be too serious. Not only are they faster, but they also handle landings better for that same reason. Rather than hanging up by plowing, they spear through. Way less over-the-bars feeling when re-entering from the air or from lighter density snow. Stiffer the better. My xstiff Kusalas are a better Renegade because of it. The Rens should feel better than the Hojis because of the stiffness and less rocker (less plow, more spear), but you still need to be skiing fast to get good float.

[Supermoon]

Also, for the first few days you ski them, you want to drive them from your shins like regular skis, when they really open up if you ski the more centered. That helps with tip dive too.

[skinipenem]

6cm

On the 195/196cm Hoji/Rene, 6cm back from centre. The Hoji's (some) have the mid-mount line on the sidewall, the Renes don't. That may change with each new press that comes out.

I agree with gamma. Although I can't explain how it works, but the renegades do to dive one me the first run or so particularly in grabby wetter Snow. Then somehow I magically get balanced and the fun begins. I wish I could mentally figure out what's going in to avoid the first thwack but oh well . It's worth it because once dialed these dogs are off the hook at any speed... from slow to (especially) mach shnell.

[Judo Chop!]

on rens, low angle heavy snow (ie. mountain just opened and spinning a lap down low before the upper stuff opens) is not so fun. They'll feel like they're diving and they'll burn your legs.

Get going fast and they come alive. then go faster and they get better.

[gramboh]

Cheers for the info. Is the mount point about the same between the two?

Hmm I'll measure mine as I honestly can't remember as I honestly can't remember (on my specific models). I know I went recommended for the 15/16 Renegades.

[SnowMoJo]

Hmm I'll measure mine as I honestly can't remember as I honestly can't remember (on my specific models). I know I went recommended for the 15/16 Renegades.

Direct from Connor at 4frnt, on the larger Hoji and Rens, 6cm back from centre is the latest recommended mount point.

[gramboh]

Took the new 15/16's out in Whistler this weekend. Felt about the same as my OG 10/11's. Super fun once you get a bit of speed going. They are more precise but I'm chalking that up to the new pair of Guardians on them whereas the old ones had developed a bunch of slop.

[reckless toboggan]

... they really open up if you ski the more centered. That helps with tip dive too.

This.

All of the skis Eric designs ski this way.

Forget your old man glory days on long skinny skis and driving the ever loving shit outta the shin and tips.

Go watch a Hoji seggy and learn how to ski.

[phallic-menace]

To all those out there that like the renegade for its ability to maneuver on a dime at slow speed but truck at fast speeds, enjoy popping from bump to bump instead of skiing the trough and ski in a neutral stance.
What are you skiing for a daily?
Ive skied my rens for 2 seasons now as a daily and love it but I can't help but feel there is more to life.

[Mustonen]

Been there. Tried a few. Ren is tough to pair.

I'm digging the 190 q lab.... does the things I miss on the ren (lay it out and carve a tight turn) without requiring significant technique mods between the two. Don't regret having them underfoot in really good snow, even if they aren't my first choice. Nothing else seemed to fit as well.

[skinipenem]

196 renegades, 184 devastators, 183? Bonafides. But should have gotten the longer bonafides. Nothings perfect because I'm not that good.

[Temagami]

196 Rens & 192 Cochise. Updated 193 11/12 Cochise to 192 16/17 Cochise this year and have been pleasantly surprised.

[OldSchool1080s]

192 zealot is my daily... the last 2 years that they made them... basically either topsheet that has blue in it

[gramboh]

15/16 186 Renegades w/ Guardians, 12/13 185 Cochise w/ STH916, 12/13 187 Hoji w/ Radical ST.

Cochise are good hard snow/do everything for Whistler although they are mediocre at best in powder. Great ski for bombing around the resort when there isn't fresh snow and they are fun on groomers.

[skinipenem]

Anyone skied the 186 and 196 renegades and care to share a comparison? Probably a stupid question but ill ask it.

My 184 devastators feel a bit short while my 196 renegades feel a bit long. Wondering if occasional tip dive on thr renegades could be exacerbated by the tail lifting my 175# ass up and forward -1cm from recommended. I wouldn't want to give up the machability of the renegades by downsizing. However, some added playfulness and ease would be nice if i don't lose too much chargeability.

I'm re reading the thread now....

[Mustonen]

They're different in about all the ways you'd expect. 186 are still plenty machable. Tip dive is tough to speak to... lots of variables there. The 196 definitely stay on top better, like you'd expect. 2 feet of mashed potatoes and/or breakable crust and I'm reaching for the 186, though.

My 186 are OG....they're mostly early season/bushwacking skis for me at this point, though they were my daily drivers for a couple years. I wouldn't call them playful, but they're easier to throw around than my 196 Owls.

[skinipenem]

Thx musto!
Are your 196s the newer models with vibeveil technology? Any difference in rocker profile, specifically tip?

I agree with the crud factor. I ski the 184 devastators in crud because the 196 renegades are too much for me in crud.