Fu*king Cyclists

[wyeaster]

keep trying, bud.

[FormerKnuckleDragger]

no, bud. i'm not casual about driving because i have a kid in the back and i bike the same road. since much if the thread discussion involves attitudes and behaviors between car drivers and cyclists, i was conveying a common problem on this road which is popular with cyclists since i lived on it for 13 years. i happened to read the notice about the bridge being closed after i wrote the post so it was added as business as usual.

feel free to keep being righteous n shit tho.

Not everyone who disagrees with you is an asshole.

[wyeaster]

considering i didn't say or think anything about you being an asshole, i would say this reinforces my point that you are making inferences unsupported by my statements or intent.

[4matic]

Not everyone who disagrees with you is an asshole.

Of course they are. Why do you think every post is about some oppressed person, group, race, or ethnicity?

[FormerKnuckleDragger]

considering i didn't say or think anything about you being an asshole, i would say this reinforces my point that you are making inferences unsupported by my statements or intent.

Says the person who said

feel free to keep being righteous n shit tho.

My comment about casual driving wasn't about you. It was about all of us.

[wyeaster]

it just feels that way to you because you're fixated on me, 4matic. besides the racism and all that. instead of following me around and shitting in multiple threads with your uninformed personal attacks, why don't you start your own thread about me and do your business there and exhibit a little self control in the rest.

[Beaver]

You're not jacked up on weed driving around?

"Jacked up" and "weed" are mutually exclusive.

[wyeaster]

Says the person who said

sorry but that is not remotely close to calling you an asshole. it means you obviously feel strongly and rightfully so but in this case you are making assumptions that are not accurate. if i meant asshole i would say it and i generally don't care to take the energy to feel that way about people.

so with that, we should be able to get back to discussing cyclists v. vehiclists.

[FormerKnuckleDragger]

Someone's sig line here is "we're all kooks to someone else." I think I should make mine "we're all assholes to someone else."

[old goat]

Someone's sig line here is "we're all kooks to someone else." I think I should make mine "we're all assholes to someone else."

It's exactly you're self righteous attitude--because I'm on a bike I can do no wrong, all those cars around me are trying to kill me, I'm a member of a victim class--that is responsible for so much of the rude cyclist behavior we all see. (As far as the latest episode we're talking about--cyclist gets a line of cars backed up behind him but refuses to get off on to the shoulder and let them pass. And you belittle the incident as the drivers just being delayed a few minutes--obviously it was a lot more than that--without considering that if the cyclist were to get off the road he would be delayed for a lot shorter time.)

You seem to have drawn a pretty straight line between people complaining about rude and dangerous behavior on the part of cyclists and those people either condoning the murder of cyclists or being potential murderers themselves. That would make you an asshole in the eyes of an awful lot of people. But then you're in SF, the city that invented rice-a-roni and self righteous indignation, so I kind of understand.

[FormerKnuckleDragger]

It's exactly you're self righteous attitude--because I'm on a bike I can do no wrong, all those cars around me are trying to kill me, I'm a member of a victim class--that is responsible for so much of the rude cyclist behavior we all see. (As far as the latest episode we're talking about--cyclist gets a line of cars backed up behind him but refuses to get off on to the shoulder and let them pass. And you belittle the incident as the drivers just being delayed a few minutes--obviously it was a lot more than that--without considering that if the cyclist were to get off the road he would be delayed for a lot shorter time.)

You seem to have drawn a pretty straight line between people complaining about rude and dangerous behavior on the part of cyclists and those people either condoning the murder of cyclists or being potential murderers themselves. That would make you an asshole in the eyes of an awful lot of people. But then you're in SF, the city that invented rice-a-roni and self righteous indignation, so I kind of understand.

Wow, that came out of nowhere. Do we know each other?

[FormerKnuckleDragger]

It's exactly you're self righteous attitude--because I'm on a bike I can do no wrong, all those cars around me are trying to kill me, I'm a member of a victim class--that is responsible for so much of the rude cyclist behavior we all see.

Weird. I bike to work. I stop at lights and signs, signal turns and lane changes, and generally just want to get to work alive. I've been hit by a bus while in the bike lane, been road raged by people who don't think bikes should ever be in a vehicle lane (you know, to turn left or to get around a car stopped in a bike lane), been doored twice by Uber passengers, and have had countless close calls. But it's definitely my attitude that caused all of these things.

As far as the latest episode we're talking about--cyclist gets a line of cars backed up behind him but refuses to get off on to the shoulder and let them pass. And you belittle the incident as the drivers just being delayed a few minutes--obviously it was a lot more than that--without considering that if the cyclist were to get off the road he would be delayed for a lot shorter time.)

Think about this a little bigger. If the cyclist gets off the road every time a car is behind him, he won't get anywhere because cars go faster than bikes. So the fallback is the cyclist shouldn't ride on that road, but by extension there's nowhere a cyclist could ride, other than a bike lane. You may think that's right, but it doesn't work out in the country, nor does it really work up in Truckee by you (where it actually seems like people are less dickish, present company excepted).

You seem to have drawn a pretty straight line between people complaining about rude and dangerous behavior on the part of cyclists and those people either condoning the murder of cyclists or being potential murderers themselves.

The straight line was drawn by our friend Spook, who said (and I paraphrase) "I was stuck behind this guy on a road I know is lousy with bikes, what an asshole...also this other person was killed by someone while biking."

That would make you an asshole in the eyes of an awful lot of people. But then you're in SF, the city that invented rice-a-roni and self righteous indignation, so I kind of understand

What do you have against Rice-a-Roni?

[dunfree]

I stop at lights and signs.

As a bicyclist, I find this hard to believe. Unless you mean you slow for signs and lights most of the time and stop when appropriate.

[FormerKnuckleDragger]

As a bicyclist, I find this hard to believe. Unless you mean you slow for signs and lights most of the time and stop when appropriate.

You may not believe it, but I am (in this situation and in many others, I'm sure), THAT guy.

[wyeaster]

there is no straight line in any argument or relative importance merely because i added a reference to a fatality at the end without comment. seriously. you're making nothing out of nothing for no reason.

[FormerKnuckleDragger]

there is no straight line in any argument or relative importance merely because i added a reference to a fatality at the end without comment. seriously. you're making nothing out of nothing for no reason.

This thread title is "Fucking Cyclists" and you post about a cyclist that made you upset and a cyclist that died. What am I missing? What was the point about including the second part?

[wyeaster]

i thought i already posted it but there is no expectation that the cyclist ride on the shoulder or pull over as far as i am aware. single file in the lane within a foot or two of the line and the car needs to wait on oncoming traffic to pass safely. there is almost no shoulder on this road and others in the area and it is curvy with intermittent short straightaways. this guy was riding literally in the middle of the lane and was looking back with some regularity very casually. cyclists ride it at 30mph plus all the time because it's downhill. i don't know if he had an issue with the car behind him or what. it was extreme but not unheard of and common to lesser degrees.

[FormerKnuckleDragger]

i thought i already posted it but there is no expectation that the cyclist ride on the shoulder or pull over as far as i am aware. single file in the lane within a foot or two of the line and the car needs to wait on oncoming traffic to pass safely. there is almost no shoulder on this road and others in the area and it is curvy with intermittent short straightaways. this guy was riding literally in the middle of the lane and was looking back with some regularity very casually. cyclists ride it at 30mph plus all the time because it's downhill. i don't know if he had an issue with the car behind him or what. it was extreme but not unheard of and common to lesser degrees.

While this is not at all the point of what I was asking (why include reference to the cyclist death?), I think it speaks to a broader issue. There's a serious mismatch of understanding and expectations, and that leads to contempt. On a fast, windy downhill, riding 1-2 feet from the fog line isn't safe for a cyclist. I haven't ridden a true road ride since years ago (I stopped when my kids were born), but I would take the lane on fast winding downhills because (1) I'd often need to vary my position in the lane through turns; and (2) I'd want to discourage close passes in the event I had to make a sudden maneuver to miss a sewer grate, pothole, tree branch, or other road debris. It may seem obnoxious to drivers, but it's the safest thing to do. You'd rather be delayed a few minutes than run over the guy if he eats it while riding the fog line, right?

I've got no insight as to whether this particular road is appropriate for bikes. From the sound of things, it's popular, which is a signal that it works for a majority of people, both biking and driving. But as to what you observed, what feels like a safe following distance to a driver can feel way too fucking close to the cyclist.

[wyeaster]

i lived on this section of road for 13 years, cycling and driving. i am familiar with common practice on the road. i posted about the accident because i felt like it. i posted this clarification for whomever suggested that he should have pulled over, not for you.

moving right along

[::: :::]

the downhill of cornell to lovejoy is fast, steep in sections, and it can be dangerous...oh, and it's got a tunnel that's poorly lit that's a pretty good lottery of destruction if the roadway isn't clean.
i've gone 40ish down that hill in dry weather on my bike; i'm sure others have done it faster.
there aren't that many intersections but there aren't that many straightaways either
once it gets into the residential part of NW portland, there's parking on both sides and speed bumps to get traffic slowed down by the time they hit the stop sign at 25th

Strava heat map here
Looks to be popular still

[Buster Highmen]

Generalizations - the boon and bane of humankind.
It all goes back to those few simple words: don't be an asshole.

(not intended for anybody in particular, just rerererereiterating the mantra mentioned several times earlier in the thread.)

[54-46]

Generalizations - the boon and bane of humankind.

Yeah, but they save time.

[old goat]

Pisses me off getting passed closely by another cyclist without warning. Especially while I'm trying to pass someone. I use a bell (everyone in Holland has a bell) but if that's too dorky for you, say something. "On your left" is popular, but people have a tendency to go left when someone behind them says "left". Maybe "passing" would be better, since no one would be dumb enough to pass another bike on the right, would they?
And what is it about Sac State students. 90% of the runners and walkers on the American River bike trail know to run or walk facing bike traffic. Except the students crossing the bike/pedestrian bridge over the river and on the levee path near the school, who invariably walk on the right. I guess that stupidity explains why they didn't get into UC.

[FormerKnuckleDragger]

Pisses me off getting passed closely by another cyclist without warning. Especially while I'm trying to pass someone. I use a bell (everyone in Holland has a bell) but if that's too dorky for you, say something. "On your left" is popular, but people have a tendency to go left when someone behind them says "left". Maybe "passing" would be better, since no one would be dumb enough to pass another bike on the right, would they?
And what is it about Sac State students. 90% of the runners and walkers on the American River bike trail know to run or walk facing bike traffic. Except the students crossing the bike/pedestrian bridge over the river and on the levee path near the school, who invariably walk on the right. I guess that stupidity explains why they didn't get into UC.

"I hate when people pass without warning"

"When I warn people of a left pass, they move left."

I mean...sometimes the problem and the solution are the same thing.

[johnnyg82]

My brother-in-law got hit today on his ride into work. Don't know what happened or how he is yet though, my sister got a call from the emergency room this morning and rushed over.