Might as well start a general Footy/Soccer thread

**LightRanger** · 06-21-2016, 09:31 PM

Yeah, the game's so different now. Hard to compare Pele or Maradona.

That goal was so beautiful.

US should've played better. Shouldn't have won. But should've played better.

On a brighter note, my grandfather's homeland, a tiny non-independent nation of 3 million people, kicked the shit out of Russia yesterday in the UEFA. So there's that.

**~mikey b** · 06-21-2016, 09:39 PM

Great game USA....

**PNWbrit** · 06-21-2016, 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by ~mikey b

Great game USA....

What were you watching?

They got schooled.

**Stikki** · 06-21-2016, 10:22 PM

Probably flows from American youth soccer. "You lost every aspect of the game but great job everyone, you're all winners, sports drink and orange slices for everyone."

**~mikey b** · 06-21-2016, 10:33 PM

I was being sarcastic.

**FussyDutchman** · 06-22-2016, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by LightRanger

Yeah, the game's so different now. Hard to compare Pele or Maradona.

Agree with this, but imo he is one of the very few worthy of being mentioned in that conversation, and I'm old enough to have seen Pele play in person, albeit at the end of his playing career.

Originally Posted by Stikki

Probably flows from American youth soccer. "You lost every aspect of the game but great job everyone, you're all winners, sports drink and orange slices for everyone."

You need to expand on this to some extent but in general, I can't say I disagree. "True" youth soccer more or less needs to be this way to encourage young players to get out and just enjoy the game while hopefully, learning some basic philosophy and proper skills needed to prepare them for play at a later age if they continue in to HS. The grey area is at what age this should/needs to happen and become more competitive, not just a recreational game played on Sunday morning with one so called "practice" a week. Too soon and too much, they often burn out, too late and not enough they don't have the core skills and correct techniques to compete at higher levels. Along with a lot of encouragement there needs to be some element of teaching that soccer is not all kick and chase, run Suzy, run, run! Winning has to be introduced as important but too early and parents become your biggest enemy telling their kids "it isn't whether you win or lose that is important." This is a real balancing act and difficult to achieve unless you have the benefit of being able to coach the same group of players for several years consecutively starting at an early age.

I have coached youth (in my book 5-10yrs old) boys and mainly girls, all the way through HS and have my C license (prior to the new DCC platform) but starting at middle school age, I would say I have spent more time trying to unteach rec soccer instruction than anything else. Boys are more receptive to learning advanced structure and technique at an earlier age, but in my experience girls are much easier to coach once they reach that middle school age. They are generally more open to instruction and retain it much better. Some kids just don't ever respond positively to the necessary constructive criticism and discipline needed to develop a solid player and at some point, they either grow in to accepting it or they don't and move on. I think this loosely defines the bridge from youth to competitive soccer.

**~mikey b** · 06-22-2016, 12:20 AM

US had not one single shot on goal tonight.

**BigDaddy** · 06-22-2016, 04:13 AM

Originally Posted by FussyDutchman

Agree with this, but imo he is one of the very few worthy of being mentioned in that conversation, and I'm old enough to have seen Pele play in person, albeit at the end of his playing career.

Was that at Schaefer or Nickerson Field?:

I saw him at Schaefer, May, 1976 and he was still a stud at 35.

Originally Posted by ~mikey b

Great game USA....

I could not agree more. One of the most amazing displays of pure, unadulterated sarcasm, unparalleled by even the Spanish or German teams of late. Truly awe inspiring and brought tears to my eyes...

**AlpiNord** · 06-22-2016, 06:11 AM

Originally Posted by FussyDutchman

Agree with this, but imo he is one of the very few worthy of being mentioned in that conversation, and I'm old enough to have seen Pele play in person, albeit at the end of his playing career.

You need to expand on this to some extent but in general, I can't say I disagree. "True" youth soccer more or less needs to be this way to encourage young players to get out and just enjoy the game while hopefully, learning some basic philosophy and proper skills needed to prepare them for play at a later age if they continue in to HS. The grey area is at what age this should/needs to happen and become more competitive, not just a recreational game played on Sunday morning with one so called "practice" a week. Too soon and too much, they often burn out, too late and not enough they don't have the core skills and correct techniques to compete at higher levels. Along with a lot of encouragement there needs to be some element of teaching that soccer is not all kick and chase, run Suzy, run, run! Winning has to be introduced as important but too early and parents become your biggest enemy telling their kids "it isn't whether you win or lose that is important." This is a real balancing act and difficult to achieve unless you have the benefit of being able to coach the same group of players for several years consecutively starting at an early age.

I have coached youth (in my book 5-10yrs old) boys and mainly girls, all the way through HS and have my C license (prior to the new DCC platform) but starting at middle school age, I would say I have spent more time trying to unteach rec soccer instruction than anything else. Boys are more receptive to learning advanced structure and technique at an earlier age, but in my experience girls are much easier to coach once they reach that middle school age. They are generally more open to instruction and retain it much better. Some kids just don't ever respond positively to the necessary constructive criticism and discipline needed to develop a solid player and at some point, they either grow in to accepting it or they don't and move on. I think this loosely defines the bridge from youth to competitive soccer.

A lot of early learning of bad habits and not 'getting the game' stems from well intending, ignorant non-soccer dads and moms as coaches. The basic ball skills of touch, trapping control, passing and moving to open areas get missed. This should be ingrained and natural from the outset (I could not believe how badly Bradley and the rest f'd up the midfield with poor trapping and basic passing.)

Another is the youth soccer system designed to extract money from parents believing that Johnny or Suzy will get to be the best if they drive all over the place to weekend tournaments vs simply getting a ball on their foot in the back yard or pick up games with other kids. It seems that gone are the 'sandlot' days where US kids would grab whoever is around and play whatever sport on their own. Soccer is only played if there is an organized practice or game by parents, club or other entity vs broad passion and desire to get on any surface with a ball. Many of the best players in the world did not start out on grass and buffed soccer fields.

A pet peeve is when a player blows a trap, pass' kicks the ball out of bounds instead of trying to make a play and 'unlucky' is yelled vs 'next time try this.....' and work on the basic skills.

**Timberridge** · 06-22-2016, 06:24 AM

The answer to why we suck is simple and has nothing to do with dads coaching soccer (dads coach youth baseball, football and basketball): our best athletes don't play soccer. In Europe and other places, their best athletes play soccer.

"Giants wide receiver Odell Beckham Jr. thinks he could have made it as a professional football player. Real football, that is.

Beckham spent some time in the United Kingdom last week, and went on the talk show "Soccer AM" to talk about his rookie season and putting his soccer dream aside as a teenager to focus on his many other athletic exploits.

"I started when I was three years old and played until I was about 14," Beckham said. "My coach was pushing to try and get me on the national team and tryout. At that age, you're 13, 14 years old you know that to make it big in soccer you are probably going to have to go overseas. Obviously that would be a goal and that would be the dream. At that age it would have been hard for me to leave my family and just go.

"I played every other sport, soccer, basketball, baseball, football. And I just said, 'I don't think I can leave my family.' So that's when I kind of put the soccer dreams aside and stuck close to home with the other sports." "

**HD333** · 06-22-2016, 06:34 AM

Unlucky being yelled drives me nuts at my kids soccer games.

It wasn't unlucky it was a bad pass or shot.

And yes that free kick by Messi last night was as my daughter said "nasty".

**PNWbrit** · 06-22-2016, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by Alpinord

A lot of early learning of bad habits and not 'getting the game' stems from well intending, ignorant non-soccer dads and moms as coaches. The basic ball skills of touch, trapping control, passing and moving to open areas get missed. This should be ingrained and natural from the outset (I could not believe how badly Bradley and the rest f'd up the midfield with poor trapping and basic passing.)

Another is the youth soccer system designed to extract money from parents believing that Johnny or Suzy will get to be the best if they drive all over the place to weekend tournaments vs simply getting a ball on their foot in the back yard or pick up games with other kids. It seems that gone are the 'sandlot' days where US kids would grab whoever is around and play whatever sport on their own. Soccer is only played if there is an organized practice or game by parents, club or other entity vs broad passion and desire to get on any surface with a ball. Many of the best players in the world did not start out on grass and buffed soccer fields.

A pet peeve is when a player blows a trap, pass' kicks the ball out of bounds instead of trying to make a play and 'unlucky' is yelled vs 'next time try this.....' and work on the basic skills.

Too much emphasis on coaching.

In soccer nations boys play at every opportunity from the moment they can walk. With any item they can find..

In the US OF A it's taught to them and involves shouting adults, traffic cones and an hour a week for six weeks a year.

**Tippster** · 06-22-2016, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by FussyDutchman

Agree with this, but imo he is one of the very few worthy of being mentioned in that conversation, and I'm old enough to have seen Pele play in person, albeit at the end of his playing career.

Based on your user name I just wanted to tell you that as a Diplomats fan I wish i could have watched Pele play against Johan Cruyff. Unfortunately Pele quit the year I moved to the States. Still got to see him go head-to-head once with my man Beckenbauer tho.

**Grape_Ape** · 06-22-2016, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by seano732

Could say the same about Bradley.... He's turned the ball over at least four fucking times...... And there you go, Wondolowski is out for the second....

Yeah...Bradley sucks as a center halfback. He loses the ball too much, plays backward and doesn't try to switch fields as much as he should. Not the distributor we need there.

Varsity vs. JV indeed.

My vote is for Pele as best player ever. Messi a close second, but maybe I am a bit nostalgic.

**Grape_Ape** · 06-22-2016, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick

I'd like to see some stats about how many unforced giveaways the us had. Its one thing to have to deal with Messi and Arg but its another to be your own worst enemy.

Yes. Our touch with the ball was abysmal when compared to Argentina. Was it nerves or lack of skill? I am thinking a bit of both.

**FussyDutchman** · 06-22-2016, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by BigDaddy

Was that at Schaefer or Nickerson Field?:

I saw him at Schaefer, May, 1976 and he was still a stud at 35.

My games were at Giants Stadium in 77. I was lucky enough to catch 2 games, one of which ended up being his final game where they played his Brazilian club team and he played a half with each, very cool to see as a 9yr old soccer freak. I ended up going to his camp a few years later and meeting him was one of the most memorable moments of my childhood.

Alpinord - Very true, although well intentioned most parents are not promoting the team aspect of the game and encouraging their son/daughter to shoot and score at every chance they get. I was lucky enough as a kid to be coached early on by a former long time HS coach who also played D1 in college so the fundamentals were first and foremost, every practice from a very early age. Each of my practices (regardless of age group) would begin with many of the same drills that I did as a kid, simple one/two touch drills, ball control, pass and fill etc.

The whole club system for young kids is more or less a waste of time for 95% of players. There is some value to getting your kid proper instruction from the beginning but paying $2k a year for a U8 travel team is bullshit as far as I am concerned. In many, many cases, that I have seen it is just a business for those running the club despite whatever true passion they have for the game. I want my kid playing as many sports as possible not being beholden to club soccer year round, she is not in it to be a college player and I think too many parents are blinded by the delusion that their kid could be the next Landon or Mia. I agree, the "system" is rigged to keep the $ flowing in year round not just during the traditional season and discourages kids and more so parents, from playing other sports. My daughter will be a soph. in HS and plays soccer, bball, is on the snowboard team and just picked up rugby last season (which she absolutely loves now). She has very little chance of being a scholarship soccer player and none in bball or snowboarding (I am a however, mildly optimistic about rugby) but loves playing in all and I see no benefit of forcing a kid to focus on one sport year round.

The whole sandlot thing is a good point and one of the main reasons I believe the US will never have a national program that teams in So. American and some of Europe have, soccer is not and never will be our #1 sport here. Yes, the US Women's program has done amazing work in the last 10-15yrs so not to diminish that but the pool of world class players is very small and I believe will continue to be that way based on the competition from other sports. Very few of the kids I have ever coached are 100% soccer and as I said earlier, I don't think that is a bad thing, but in other countries like Argentina and Brazil these kid grow up playing every minute they can in bare feet and on anything that can even loosely resembled a pitch. That doesn't happen here and really never has although, I think it used to be more common when I was a kid since we had to make our own game most of the time.

Tippster - Nice catch! I am half Dutch but Cruyff was a huge idol as a kid (despite the fact I was a keeper the majority of the time) along with Beck who I got to see many times when he came to the Cosmos (after Pele retired unfortunately). The Cruyff Turn was one of my go to moves as a kid when I wasn't in net.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...25221236,d.dmo

**Grape_Ape** · 06-22-2016, 10:20 AM

I also used to watch the Cosmos at Giants stadium as a tyke. Good times.

**~mikey b** · 06-22-2016, 10:24 AM

Quakes at Spartan Stadium in the 70's for me. Got to meet George Best a couple times at soccer camp. He had a jersey he'd gotten from Pele that the player of the day got to wear. I was very proud to wear that in net one day.

**AlpiNord** · 06-22-2016, 10:51 AM

Cruyff was 'the guy' and Pele was 'the god' when I started. As the others, Messi is simply above the rest in his time and there are more super quality players, gear, fields and access to watch today. It's impossible to rank who is or was best between eras, nor should it matter. Just appreciate what they and others bring to the sport.

Watching Argentina play the beautiful game, beautifully (and Messi delivering a hat trick in 30 minutes during his debut) plus last nights stellar performance ought to open a few eyes and minds. Messi exceeded the hype for this tourney and FOX couldn't have scripted it better. The topper will be if Argentina wins and Ronaldo continues to under deliver at the Euros and gets skunked. That'll sure fuel the debate on who's best in the world....ever.

Edit: Assist and goal for Ronaldo so far.