EAST COAST ROLL CALL #8 14/15 A NEW HOPE

[NoPostholio]

Poll question.

Did Rog expend more energy:

A) Getting himself banned from a largely unmoderated message board

or

B) Trying to get himself back in the mix on aforementioned board using "clever" pseudonyms?

C) driving around looking for unsecured wifi to log in with his newest 30 hr alias

[robrox]

A bit of a cross post, but a neat thread about a comparison of new avalanche beacons:
http://www.backcountrytalk.earnyourt...on-BBQ-results

It's time I replaced my aged Tracker DTS (not a Tracker 2, sorry about that)

[Generalstark]

What's staggering is the fact you keep coming back to hear yourself. Or is that pathetic? The latter.

Demented and sad...but social. Looks like he didn't last long this time round...

[MyNameIsAugustWest]

I know it varies for everyone, but off hand, what's the typical hit ($$$) for a proper fitting that will likely include footbeds...I need to get on this...what should I budget?

The last time I got fitted was 9 years ago at GMOL. Instaprint footbeds, 1 sole planed, 1 shim installed and a couple of minor grinds to alleviate hot spots and I walked out for $250...best money I've ever spent on skiing. Unfortunately, it's time to walk back in there because my wife's dog ate one of my footbeds over the summer and I got new boots.

[Bottleman]

The last time I got fitted was 9 years ago at GMOL. Instaprint footbeds, 1 sole planed, 1 shim installed and a couple of minor grinds to alleviate hot spots and I walked out for $250...best money I've ever spent on skiing. Unfortunately, it's time to walk back in there because my wife's dog ate one of my footbeds over the summer and I got new boots.

C'mon now! You wife's dog is your dog too

[Vt-Freeheel]

Just a light coating up high at 5 o'clock.





Good times in the Kingdom.

[Flounder]

I know it varies for everyone, but off hand, what's the typical hit ($$$) for a proper fitting that will likely include footbeds...I need to get on this...what should I budget?

Just got new boots from Inner Boot. The foot beds added almost $150 to the cost of the boots. Benny spent a couple of hours getting everything fit up properly. I've got a couple of issues that he was knew exactly what to do to accommodate. Can't wait to get out on the new boots. I'm not sure what the cost would be if I didn't get the new boots from them. Probably find out later in the season when I get new AT boots and go get them fit up.

[Boreas]

A bit of a cross post, but a neat thread about a comparison of new avalanche beacons:
http://www.backcountrytalk.earnyourt...on-BBQ-results

It's time I replaced my aged Tracker2...

As far as I see it, there's no real world reason to upgrade aside from wishing to spend more money and have the cool new toy on the hill. My reasons being:

1) people are familiar with the tracker 2, so if you're injured and for whatever reason others need your beacon they know how to use it.

2) multiple burials are very rare in the EC, even more rare are multiple burials in which all buried have beacons.

3) the Tracker 2 is easy to use. Thus for a populace that spends 6 months or more away from areas of instabilities it's not hard to remember how to use it.

4) Range is more than adequate for the EC, burials tend to not be all that deep or wide.

So if you spend 90% of your time skiing out west in big bowls then yeah update. Otherwise, proper terrain management and using what you know will be far more beneficial to a person living on the EC. Perhaps JS might have some better insight and change my ideas, otherwise I'm more than happy with my old tried and true Tracker.

[vt_ski]

Talk of having the rock skis at the ready in the most recent NWS forecast discussion -

http://mobile.weather.gov/index.php?...ster_reasoning

[MiltonBradley]

Killington yesterday.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

As far as I see it, there's no real world reason to upgrade aside from wishing to spend more money and have the cool new toy on the hill. My reasons being:

1) people are familiar with the tracker 2, so if you're injured and for whatever reason others need your beacon they know how to use it.

2) multiple burials are very rare in the EC, even more rare are multiple burials in which all buried have beacons.

3) the Tracker 2 is easy to use. Thus for a populace that spends 6 months or more away from areas of instabilities it's not hard to remember how to use it.

4) Range is more than adequate for the EC, burials tend to not be all that deep or wide.

So if you spend 90% of your time skiing out west in big bowls then yeah update. Otherwise, proper terrain management and using what you know will be far more beneficial to a person living on the EC. Perhaps JS might have some better insight and change my ideas, otherwise I'm more than happy with my old tried and true Tracker.

Some discussion from a few years back here: https://www.wildsnow.com/1432/avalan...eacons-rescue/

[strawjack]

As far as I see it, there's no real world reason to upgrade aside from wishing to spend more money and have the cool new toy on the hill. My reasons being:

1) people are familiar with the tracker 2, so if you're injured and for whatever reason others need your beacon they know how to use it.

2) multiple burials are very rare in the EC, even more rare are multiple burials in which all buried have beacons.

3) the Tracker 2 is easy to use. Thus for a populace that spends 6 months or more away from areas of instabilities it's not hard to remember how to use it.

4) Range is more than adequate for the EC, burials tend to not be all that deep or wide.

So if you spend 90% of your time skiing out west in big bowls then yeah update. Otherwise, proper terrain management and using what you know will be far more beneficial to a person living on the EC. Perhaps JS might have some better insight and change my ideas, otherwise I'm more than happy with my old tried and true Tracker.

All good points, but my beacon is for primarily when i head west. I bought the Mammut last year (JS gave it high marks) and it's super intuitive even for an idiot like me.

[east or bust]

Talk of having the rock skis at the ready in the most recent NWS forecast discussion -

http://mobile.weather.gov/index.php?...ster_reasoning

Link no worky for me.

I hope that is the case though.

[therudeness]

link works, but here's the gist of it

'TOO EARLY FOR ACCUMULATIONS BUT I WOULD HAVE THE ROCK
SKIS ON STANDBY THIS WEEKEND...IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR THE 1ST
TURNS OF THE SEASON ALONG THE SPINE OF THE GREEN MTNS FROM JAY
PEAK TO MANSFIELD TO KILLINGTON'

[Jonathan S.]

link works, but here's the gist of it

'TOO EARLY FOR ACCUMULATIONS BUT I WOULD HAVE THE ROCK
SKIS ON STANDBY THIS WEEKEND...IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR THE 1ST
TURNS OF THE SEASON ALONG THE SPINE OF THE GREEN MTNS FROM JAY
PEAK TO MANSFIELD TO KILLINGTON'

Alas, exactly one day too late to continue my since-1992 October ski streak...
Nevertheless, very excited to kick off the season as usual with several inches of fluff on top of a grass base, and also looking forward to seeing lots of folks up at Killington and/or Stowe on Saturday and/or Saturday!

Here's TC at Stowe on October 26 last year:






And me (worrying if the Dynafit Snow Leopard logo makes my butt look too big for optimal skimo racing manorexia):

[dark_star]

Oh man... it begins!

[Jonathan S.]

Oh man... it begins!

Yes, and you in particular must be really desperate to get on snow soon after having been away from it for so long!

[dark_star]

Yes, and you of all people should understand that once you get a taste of the white stuff it's really hard to stop...

[Jonathan S.]

Yes, and you of all people should understand that once you get a taste of the white stuff it's really hard to stop...

I haven't skied since July and I am totally fine, not concerned at all with skiing.
(Now please excuse me while I test mount some ski bindings, ship a pair of skis to a buyer, pack up my ski gear for the weekend, and drive off to Greylock for some more work on the skimo race course...)

[neufox47]

Man, I still need to get snow tires, mount my Thule, which is a much bigger project thanks to Hondas placement of the roof rails, put a low profile antenna on, mount two pairs of skis, and tune 5 pairs. My procrastination must have brought the storm on

Edit - Sunday River says that they are planning to be open but watch the website for an announcement Thursday.

[Jonathan S.]

Man, I still need to get snow tires, mount my Thule, which is a much bigger project thanks to Hondas placement of the roof rails, put a low profile antenna on, mount two pairs of skis, and tune 5 pairs. My procrastination must have brought the storm on

Much appreciated, but for the sake of my October ski streak, I sure wish that you had hurried up with your procrastination!
(Or is that unpossible?)

[robrox]

In another forum, Jonathan underlined the need to retire my old beacon, a Tracker DTS, btw. Always good to get the well timed push...

I am a mite unhappy about parting with my cash, but all things being considered, I suppose that 12' Wicked Tough pole saw* will have to wait another year so I can get an Element or something in that class.

*The tool for the job, btw!

[Jonathan S.]

A bit of a cross post, but a neat thread about a comparison of new avalanche beacons:
http://www.backcountrytalk.earnyourt...on-BBQ-results

It's time I replaced my aged Tracker2...

You must mean the original BCA Tracker DTS?
By contrast, any BCA T2 is at most only about four years old.
(And four years ago was also when any DTS should have been retired, even though those things are still sold unfortunately...)

All good points, but my beacon is for primarily when i head west. I bought the Mammut last year (JS gave it high marks) and it's super intuitive even for an idiot like me.

You won't be beeping this weekend in VT?
But what if those few inches of snow get blown into an entire foot on some grassy slope whose pitch starts to bump up into the high twenties -- I'm staying away from irresponsible "backcountry" skiers like you!
(Meanwhile, out West, this really is a concern for pre-operational season "touring" at resorts...)

Perhaps JS might have some better insight and change my ideas, otherwise I'm more than happy with my old tried and true Tracker.

If you're talking about the Tracker 2, then all your points are reasonable -- thanks for sharing, great to have that discussion, especially at the beginning of the year.

In more detail:

"1) people are familiar with the tracker 2, so if you're injured and for whatever reason others need your beacon they know how to use it."
-- This brings up an important point: know how to at least turn Off and switch to Search all the beacon models of your touring partners. And also know how to turn Off the bayonet switch on the Ortovox F1 and many other Ortovox models -- even if you don't know anyone who has one of these models, all now discontinued, lots of these are still in circulation:
http://beaconreviews.com/transceiver...us_2010-08.pdf

"2) multiple burials are very rare in the EC, even more rare are multiple burials in which all buried have beacons."
-- Historically, yes. (And nobody on Mt W has ever been fully buried with a beacon, singly or otherwise.)
-- But the potential is scary. That Huntington avy in 2013 hit a dozen climbers. And this past weekend we spend lots of time discussion the experience of one of my avy students who was at the SE Snowfield avy -- the victim count there could have huge. (Just beforehand they saw someone digging a pit -- right in the middle of what would soon slide!)

"3) the Tracker 2 is easy to use. Thus for a populace that spends 6 months or more away from areas of instabilities it's not hard to remember how to use it."
-- Great point! Perhaps we're even unique in North America for having lots of backcountry skiing terrain where wearing a beacon would be totally pointless ... yet then we have have the real deal for avy terrain in the Daks, Presidentials, Baxter, and Gaspe (plus airports too to access even more of course).

"4) Range is more than adequate for the EC, burials tend to not be all that deep or wide."
-- For deeper burials, the precision in the final search phase is unrelated to the initial signal acquisition range. (And at any burial depth, a third antenna helps so much.)
-- Good point on the limited width -- and also length -- of our slide paths.
-- By contrast, right now while working on my airbag presentation for ESAW, I'm looking at one incident where the victims were carried a vertical drop that's the equivalent of partway up Tux to the Route 16. And another with a runout length of 2km.
-- Definitely puts our slide paths into perspective -- can still kill you all the same, but the search strip width is not as important.

More generally, with regard to that link, I’m not a big fan of these beacon tests that depend on the largely subjective evaluations of a group of test subjects – so much depends on the composition of the test subjects, and exactly what tests they were subjected to.

Also, so much has changed over the past several years: now, any three-antenna model on the market is just fine, and only two models are still sold w/o three antennas (i.e., the BCA Tracker DTS that should have been discontinued a long time ago, and the Pieps Freeride that never should have been made in the first place).

Plus you can drive yourself crazy with many of the detailed details . . . as I’m currently in the process of doing while assisting with the annual updates here:
http://beaconreviews.com

As for special features to assist in multi-burial victim searches, that can be debated, and here’s a quantitative debate on exactly that:
TAR Articles

A few brief comments on the beacons in that link (in the order of that first post):

• Barryvox Element is definitely an overlooked model. (Maybe Mammut just needs a bigger U.S. marketing budget?)
• Arva NEO I don’t have any personal experience with, but seems like a nice if somewhat generic model.
• Pieps DSP Pro and Sport received lots of little upgrades last fall over their yellow predecessors (i.e., DSP Advanced, DSP sans appendage, DSP Tour) along with significant price drops. (A couple of my avy course students this past weekend had recently bought the Sport at some ridiculous price of a little over $200!)
• Ortovox S1/S1+ has a very different display. Whether it’s worth paying the extra $ for though is debatable. (But one of my students this past weekend had bought that crazy used deal for something like only $90!)
• BCA T3 is definitely not a “loser” despite that derisive categorization in that review. The signal suppression/marking/flagging/masking/ignoring/whatevering is more limited than most of the competition, but that is actually an advantage in some ways. The big flaw though is that BCA added functionality over the T2 while still retaining the T2’s simple user interface. That’s potentially adds up to more confusion. (You really need to read not only the T3 user manual but also the advanced manual in order to fully understand what’s going on.)
• Ortovox 3+ is also a fine beacon overall, despite all the excessive criticism of how it may or may not copy with three victims.
• Tracker DTS (not “Tracker 1” by name) falls short not just in range but also in the final search phase, as its lack of third antenna leads to nulls, spikes, and general lack of precision.

[Greenstateofmind]

long johns go on under the pants, hot chics exluded. I can't wait to try my new board this weekend.

[Jonathan S.]

long johns go on under the pants, hot chics excluded.

In that case you'd better stay far away from rando races!