Berthoud Photo/Conditions Thread (2010-2011)

[ACheateaux]

So I gave 3 gaper knuckle-draggers a ride up to the top of the pass from the Empire side around 10:45 this morning. When we get to the parking lot they hop out of the truck and tell me thank you. So I say, "No problem guys. It's good for my karma. I trust that everyone is wearing beacons, right???" The first 2 kind of snicker at me and the third, the one wearing wet blue jeans, says "What's a beacon?"

While I think this might be viewed by a lot at Berthoud as a dick move, I think there is a lot a validity to the argument. The "No beep, no jeep" move says to someone "Not only do i not agree with you being an uneducated user, I'm not going to make it any easier on you". Knowledge and experience dont do shit for moving snow in a rescue scenario.

[ullrdrool]

Good shit, no beep, no jeep. I try to make it a policy not to pick up douchers without gear. Not trying to be an asshole, but it puts people like me and drt who are up there 4-5 times a week in danger, cause eventually those people are going to get in trouble and expect us to help out. It definitly seems like the shit show is growing on berthoud. Hard to go up there on weekends anymore.

[skiingalot1234]

Yep, today was something else. Not only did we see a bunch of people up there without any gear, but i also ran into a dad with his two younger sons, with no gear. And this is just 3 days after a death up there. Do these people not have internet or a tv? Because i swear it's been all over the news that those two didn't have any gear on at berthoud pass. ha ha ha.... and that's why I love my weekdays up there.

[ACheateaux]

Good shit, no beep, no jeep. I try to make it a policy not to pick up douchers without gear. Not trying to be an asshole, but it puts people like me and drt who are up there 4-5 times a week in danger, cause eventually those people are going to get in trouble and expect us to help out. It definitly seems like the shit show is growing on berthoud. Hard to go up there on weekends anymore.

Funny. When I lived in the valley awhile back, we only rode up there on the weekends, just to steer clear of crowds. Now, somedays, it's just as bad.

[Cruiser]

I dunno. I'm kind of torn. The reason I ski backcountry in the first place is because there are no rules. I go where I want when I want. I'm educated though, and I make a sincere effort not to get myself killed. Then you have the classic goobers who are building kickers in Hoop Creek and lapping the pass. I appreciate Ullrdrool's argument that these folks could possibly get into a bad spot and hurt themselves or others and that is a real risk. But at the end of the day, if you don't want to take the risk of getting hurt by some no-gear gapers in the bc then maybe you need to find somplace a bit more remote to do your skiing. It's not like there is a great shortage of decent non-resort skiing around the front range.

Where does that leave us in terms of "no beep. no jeep"? You decide for yourself. I'm going to keep picking people up when they need a ride. I'd appreciate it if they'd do the same for me. No one has ever given me a test before allowing me into their car on Berthoud, or anywhere else that I've hitch hiked for that matter, and I'd like to see that continue. I mean, god forbid somone stop to pick me up and ask to see my Sierra Club card (cuz they advocate for the forest and whatnot) before they'll give me a ride. That happens and I'm gonna have to pull out my snowmobile registration card out of my wallet and tell them to get fucked.

[ullrdrool]

I dunno. I'm kind of torn. The reason I ski backcountry in the first place is because there are no rules. I go where I want when I want. I'm educated though, and I make a sincere effort not to get myself killed. Then you have the classic goobers who are building kickers in Hoop Creek and lapping the pass. I appreciate Ullrdrool's argument that these folks could possibly get into a bad spot and hurt themselves or others and that is a real risk. But at the end of the day, if you don't want to take the risk of getting hurt by some no-gear gapers in the bc then maybe you need to find somplace a bit more remote to do your skiing. It's not like there is a great shortage of decent non-resort skiing around the front range.

Where does that leave us in terms of "no beep. no jeep"? You decide for yourself. I'm going to keep picking people up when they need a ride. I'd appreciate it if they'd do the same for me. No one has ever given me a test before allowing me into their car on Berthoud, or anywhere else that I've hitch hiked for that matter, and I'd like to see that continue. I mean, god forbid somone stop to pick me up and ask to see my Sierra Club card (cuz they advocate for the forest and whatnot) before they'll give me a ride. That happens and I'm gonna have to pull out my snowmobile registration card out of my wallet and tell them to get fucked.

I respect the fact that some people like building kickers in the bc and session all day, awsome, more power to them. But when you have people building kickers in the run-out zone of a known avalanche path, i.e. second gully on the west side, then I think we have the right to call them duche-bag fuck wads. Because they built the kicker there, or because they are above tree line with no equipment, they have made it a distinct possibility that someone with bc knowledge and equipment who happens to be skiing that day is going to have risk thier lives to help these people. I don't have a problem helping a fellow skiier/snowboarder in need if all precaustions were taken, and shit just happened. I do take offence to people putting themselves in situations where they are likely to get hurt or killed, and that situation could have been avoided if they had any backcountry experience at all.

[JoeStrummer]

I'm with Cruiser. If you don't like the people the roadside attracts, then don't ski the roadside attraction.

And it's not the Khumbu Icefall, for Chrissakes. There are plenty of places to hang out all day long without a nickel worth of avy gear or common sense.

[ullrdrool]

I'm with Cruiser. If you don't like the people the roadside attracts, then don't ski the roadside attraction.

And it's not the Khumbu Icefall, for Chrissakes. There are plenty of places to hang out all day long without a nickel worth of avy gear or common sense.

Totally agree......just sucks when they don't stay in those places. Fuck it, no use worrying about it, just get out and shralp the gnar!

[Alpentele]

Sick again today. Shit show up top, but everyone seems to be skiing in the same places at least. Fingers looks to have slid again, possibly skier triggered?

[SterlingSpikeDancer]

So I lurk in this thread, since I ski WP and enjoy seeing what's going on in the neighborhood. Myself, I am WAY to chicken shit to get somewhere without gear and proper training that I wish I wasn't at. A couple of questions, with no real need for answer.
1)-Is the increased amount of shitshow more due to advances in gear or a poor economy (i.e. "free" bc skiing)?
2)-Does it make you in-human to refuse to rescue someone without gear/a clue? I can see that many people are miffed regarding irresponsible bc use endangering innocent responsible users, but would more regulation help? Seems like it would ruin everything.

Just pondering random shit, hope the snowpack settles down so everyone can safely get after it.

[soylent green]

anyone want to get out tomorrow? i've got some stress to burn off! send PM

[Below Zero]

i also ran into a dad with his two younger sons, with no gear.

I'm wondering if this is the same guy Lurch and I gave a ride to on Sunday. The guy really wanted to get his hands on the BP guidebook to use as a "safety" tool; find the easy runs because they don't avalanche (I'm paraprashing, but it was something like that). We politely informed him that he should probably look into a beacon/probe/shovel/education for himself and his two sons before worrying about a guidebook. I mean he was skiing Telegraph, so it wasn't that bad.

[soylent green]

I saw the family hitching. I was wondering what they were doing up there. More power to them if they get into the sport and learn the ropes.

BTW, does anyone want to tour Bert tomorrow? I need to get out. Below Zero?

[Below Zero]

I saw the family hitching. I was wondering what they were doing up there. More power to them if they get into the sport and learn the ropes.

BTW, does anyone want to tour Bert tomorrow? I need to get out. Below Zero?

I would love to, but I can't make it tomorrow. I'm a weekend warrior now.

[adrenalated]

2)-Does it make you in-human to refuse to rescue someone without gear/a clue? I can see that many people are miffed regarding irresponsible bc use endangering innocent responsible users, but would more regulation help? Seems like it would ruin everything.

Me, myself, personally.... I would absolutely, in a heartbeat, help try to rescue someone who didn't know the fuck they were doing and had no gear. I would not give them a ride to the top of the pass, however.

I would like to see more signage, etc. warning of the danger. Something along the lines of the "Are you beeping?" signs in Utah. But no additional regulations.

[summit]

2)-Does it make you in-human to refuse to rescue someone without gear/a clue? I can see that many people are miffed regarding irresponsible bc use endangering innocent responsible users, but would more regulation help? Seems like it would ruin everything.

In an emergency, any backcountry user should be eager to help another regardless of the retard factor, but not to the point of hurting yourself to do it.

However, anytime you give a moron a ride to the top and are silent, you are enabling them. Either don't give the ride or better yet, try to educate them.

[Foggy_Goggles]

OK so I do have compassion and sympathy for the deceased. Now that we've got that out of the way I have to say...WTF!

There are so many parts of this story that I find so frustrating. The cliff notes:

1. Where is the outrage? Compassion and sympathy aside, this was a selfish act of ignorance and stupidity. His friends and family should be pissed.

2. Why is this acceptable? We as a society should have zero tolerance for irresponsible behavior in the backcountry. This is not a victimless event.

3. Mis-information: Why is it over a week now and we don't really know what happened. Others can't learn from his mistakes if they don't know what mistakes were made.

What can be done? How do you help those who are incabable of what making good decisions? Are scare tactic effective? Should a list of all fatalities be posted at the warming hut?

This person had all the resources needed at his disposal.

Free avalanche training in town - check
Avi report indicating High Danger - check
Shops is town selling appropriate gear - check
A knowledge local community of BC skiers - check
Edit/Delete Message

[Poop~Ghost]

I'll crib from my buddy joe strummer who said "Past performance is the best indicator of future performance..."

Which is to say, john q. public regularly makes bad decisions. He will continue to make bad decisions.

[Pegleg]

The reason I ski backcountry in the first place is because there are no rules. I go where I want when I want.

I don't really get this. The reason I ski backcountry is because the snow is better and the crowds are smaller. I can't say I've ever really had an issue with a resort imposing its "rules" on me, at least not in the west. Apart from roping off low-coverage areas (for which I'm generally grateful; no need to find the rocks/stumps for myself) or areas prone to sliding where control work hasn't been done yet, the resorts out here don't really have too many closures, and I can ski pretty much wherever I want.

So, I guess I'm asking, what are these rules that are causing you to avoid the resorts?

[montanaskier]

"it'll never happen to me"...that kinid of thought process rules in lots of things...not just bc skiing.

[SterlingSpikeDancer]

I didn't mean to imply that I wouldn't help if given the opportunity, but was just curious as to what some potential solutions are. It drives me nuts to see SAR and potentially other mags who happen to be responsibly enjoying a day on the pass be put in danger in sketchy conditions to try and rescue/recover someone who made multiple bad decisions in that situation.

The "general public" will remain painfully stupid in any circumstance where they are given the chance to show this stupidity. I have only made a cursory stop through the summit parking lot, but would signage at the top, and potentially at the switchback p/u locations help? At least it is something, in terms of education, or rather directing people to where they can get more education.

[tommyvee]

I don't really get this. The reason I ski backcountry is because the snow is better and the crowds are smaller. I can't say I've ever really had an issue with a resort imposing its "rules" on me, at least not in the west. Apart from roping off low-coverage areas (for which I'm generally grateful; no need to find the rocks/stumps for myself) or areas prone to sliding where control work hasn't been done yet, the resorts out here don't really have too many closures, and I can ski pretty much wherever I want.

So, I guess I'm asking, what are these rules that are causing you to avoid the resorts?

I am friends with Patrol where I ski the most and respect their decisions to close runs,etc., and have no problem with the whole system. But there is definitely more freedom outside the gates, which attracts me many days.

The backcountry never closes (and never opens), requires no ticket purchase, lets you eat, drink,sleep, and smoke however/whatever you want whenever you want, makes you and your party responsible for your own safety, changes every day, is not crowded,etc.

Since I appreciate those freedoms, I wince sometimes when I see people doing stupid things (booting up obvious slide paths,etc.) but I sure don't want to be somebody else's un-appointed Safety Officer, and I am unlikely to grief somebody not in my own party for terrain choices or gear, rather a gentle suggestion or a little shared history/knowledge.

Weird as it sounds, I grew up skiing Berthoud when nobody had a transceiver or avalanche education. I remember dragging stupid avalanche cords around, with arrows that were supposed to point to the buried victim. Skiing Berthoud safely without avalanche gear was and is perfectly possible. Down in the trees in Current Creek a slide is about as likely as a meteor. People died at Berthoud and out of bounds at A-Basin then and they do today, and they will continue to in the future.

Blurred making fun of stupidity is kind of entertaining, but it won't stop evolution, and I am glad we are all still free to make our own stupid choices and suffer our own consequences, as tragic as they may be.

[Fritz]

Today was good. Thanks for lighting a fire under me Soylent.

[Cruiser]

So, I guess I'm asking, what are these rules that are causing you to avoid the resorts?

I can't see the sunrise from above treeline at the resort.
I don't like being told to get in the queue to load the lift.
I'm not a big fan of orange ropes.
I can't ski in October and beat the ski out of my skis (and knees) if I feel like it.
I can't catch the ocassional mid-May powder day.
I can't bring my own PBR and drink it any place I want.
I'm just not that into the music you hear when you ride the lift past the terrain park.

I've got nothing against resorts or resort skiers. I just prefer to have all the available options at my disposal.

[PowTrout]

How is it up there?