Put a fork in Hillary...

[Rubicon]

Yeah, the pattern is you are JUST LIKE McCAIN - you'd both do ANYTHING to win. That's an admirable quality in an athlete, criminal, or businessperson, but it isn't what you want in a leader.
Hillary has some decent ideas and all, but her tactics flush away any good attached to her name. Desperation is unattractive, but when you allow your desperation to overrule your values, you erase your own credibility.

She ain't no Bill.

If there was ever any uncertainty about which half of the Clinton team possessed the political savvy, the half that is talking right now has put that debate to rest.

[Tuckerman]

Yeah looks like shes done. But she would make a good VP for either McCain or Obama. I will not vote for any of these 3 stogies.

[Mathematics]

I understand you're not happy about your candidate not getting the nomination but nothing shady is going on at all. If anything the fact that two Democrats were such good candidates that we had a hard time deciding on which one is a good sign for the future of the Party. Don't let the Limbaughs or Jers claim otherwise.

agreed...people are bitter now, but so many people having so much passion about who gets the nomination is going to result in a huge turnout in nov.

Jer and anyone else claiming this has been bad for the party is high...we've got political machines in places we've never had before (even red states...tx could very well go blue this year), democratic registration is up 400%, the grass roots support is through the roof as is fundraising.

I do wish Hilary would drop out though. It's clear she cant win, and even her waiting for WV so she can go out on a win is another week the partys not unifying. Especially if she keeps up her "vote white" propaganda (nevermind Obama pulls the "white" demographic...all she has a majority in is the "white, no college, lower middle class" demographic..)

anyways. It's a good time to be a Democrat. Taking into account how many congressional seats we're taking from the republicans this cycle, it could feasibly be 8-12 yrs of Bush repair and some intelligent policy making.

[Mathematics]

You're mistaken. Actually, I'm stunned at how determined the Democrats are to select such a weak candidate.

One part of me worries that Obama will lose by a landslide. Another part worries that he'll be elected president.

Obama vs. McCain—what a terrible slate of candidates. One is inexperienced and has demonstrated questionable judgement on multiple occasions; the other is none too bright, a war monger, and older than dirt. For the first time, I might sit this one out.

Most of my friends are solidly on the Obama hysteria train, but he just seems like a self-serving lightweight to me.

Oh, and you can bet the Republicans haven't been idle during this process. They're undoubtedly gleefully queuing up their Swift Boat machinery. Obama has given them plenty of fodder.

are you joking? hysteria? So a majority of the voting public, a majority of delegates, and now a majority in super delegates are all going for Obama based on hysteria? no one out of those majorities is voting based on policy, the issues, or voting against Hilary's republican tactics?

get real. Hilary has no more experience than Obama, and her judgement is horrible (exhibit A - her campaign. for other examples check "gas tax", "sniper fire", "obliterating Iran", etc). If she ran an administration anything like how she ran her campaign it'd be another 4 years of clinton drama in the white house.

[Tuckerman]

So a majority of the voting public, a majority of delegates, and now a majority in super delegates are all going for Obama based on hysteria?

Just like Beanie Babies, Elvis, and i pods sad but true.

[Jer]

Jer and anyone else claiming this has been bad for the party is high.

Arrogance and stupidity is a BAD combination.

Tell ya what, douchie - if you're so confident that I'm just high or something, howsabout putting your e-money where your big mouth is?

McCain wins the general election. If I'm wrong, I quit TGR FOREVER. If McCain does win, you and all the other librodouches go find another message board to hang out on. You can come back to post some ski stoke (like that'll ever happen), but that's it.

The ball's in your court, morons. I haven't lost a bet here yet. Ask Tippster, Assbush or whoever I wagered me eating a whole pineapple against (I ate it whole anyway, just 'cause I'm such a badass).

Librodouches: Math, Tipp, Ride, Dex, Adolph, Truckee, Witherspoon, PNW. Am I missing anybody? I'm sure I am, but there's too many of you to keep track of. Spook can stay. He's far beyond librodouche.

Just imagine - TGR with one less voice of reason to disrupt the librodouche circle-jerk.

[spindrift]

This has nothing to do with bitterness. Obama is a very weak candidate in the context of a general election. His campaign has been well run - but cynically run. They played both the race and gender cards in a most effective and despicable manner. Clinton is always characterized as "silly" or "emotional" - or "deciding which flowers to put in the entrance hall". If you have any issues whatsoever with Obama, his minions brand you - implicitly or explicitly - as a racist. People should have paid attention to what Geraldine Ferraro said instead of falling for the propaganda spew and branding her a racist too.

Assuming Obama is the nominee, the general election will play out on a very different stage than the primary. Everything from Obama's non-track record as a state senator to his no-show track record in DC to his "patriotism" to his questionable ethics to his substance-free policy positions to his long term and close association with a hate-monger will be hammered. And not with the kid-gloves approach the Clinton campaign took. It'll take a special candidate to lose to someone as weak as McCain & it looks like the masses may have found their man.

I'm trying to get used to the words "President McCain" now so I don't choke when reality hits. And should Obama beat the odds and be elected, I'm not at all optimistic about what Canididate Obama foreshadows for a President Obama.

FWIW - I also think this campaign has put a bright light on the status of women in the US. While I consider him a lying ass in general, Limbaugh has been having a field day with this recently by making fun of the way women have been "betrayed" by "liberal men". It is a positively amazing situation. Absent gender and race, I suspect we'd have seen a very different outcome with these same two candidates. It is damn sad.

[BenWA]

This has nothing to do with bitterness. Obama is a very weak candidate in the context of a general election. His campaign has been well run - but cynically run. They played both the race and gender cards in a most effective and despicable manner. Clinton is always characterized as "silly" or "emotional" - or "deciding which flowers to put in the entrance hall". If you have any issues whatsoever with Obama, his minions brand you - implicitly or explicitly - as a racist. People should have paid attention to what Geraldine Ferraro said instead of falling for the propaganda spew and branding her a racist too.

Assuming Obama is the nominee, the general election will play out on a very different stage than the primary. Everything from Obama's non-track record as a state senator to his no-show track record in DC to his "patriotism" to his questionable ethics to his substance-free policy positions to his long term and close association with a hate-monger will be hammered. And not with the kid-gloves approach the Clinton campaign took. It'll take a special candidate to lose to someone as weak as McCain & it looks like the masses may have found their man.

I'm trying to get used to the words "President McCain" now so I don't choke when reality hits. And should Obama beat the odds and be elected, I'm not at all optimistic about what Canididate Obama foreshadows for a President Obama.

FWIW - I also think this campaign has put a bright light on the status of women in the US. While I consider him a lying ass in general, Limbaugh has been having a field day with this recently by making fun of the way women have been "betrayed" by "liberal men". It is a positively amazing situation. Absent gender and race, I suspect we'd have seen a very different outcome with these same two candidates. It is damn sad.

Very articulate post spindrift. IMO, you drove an entire box of nails squarely into that timber.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Arrogance and stupidity is a BAD combination.

Tell ya what, douchie - if you're so confident that I'm just high or something, howsabout putting your e-money where your big mouth is?

McCain wins the general election. If I'm wrong, I quit TGR FOREVER. If McCain does win, you and all the other librodouches go find another message board to hang out on. You can come back to post some ski stoke (like that'll ever happen), but that's it.

The ball's in your court, morons. I haven't lost a bet here yet. Ask Tippster, Assbush or whoever I wagered me eating a whole pineapple against (I ate it whole anyway, just 'cause I'm such a badass).

Librodouches: Math, Tipp, Ride, Dex, Adolph, Truckee, Witherspoon, PNW. Am I missing anybody? I'm sure I am, but there's too many of you to keep track of. Spook can stay. He's far beyond librodouche.

Just imagine - TGR with one less voice of reason to disrupt the librodouche circle-jerk.

I'll bet cash. I couldn't care less if you post here or not.

[Jer]

I'll bet cash. I couldn't care less if you post here or not.

Sorry, bro - it's e-glory or death. Do you keep that cash in your Grandpa's safe along with your alleged gun collection?

Very articulate post spindrift. IMO, you drove an entire box of nails squarely into that timber.

Seconded.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Sorry, bro - it's e-glory or death

Wow you really are an e-pussy

Seconded.

[BenWA]

Amazing, comparing Obama to Himmler.
Hypnosis? NLP?

It IS amazing. In an unfortunate way. If you would prefer, we could instead make a comparison of Obama to L. Ron Hubbard and/or the C.o.S. If you know much about the use of NLP and hypnotic speech patterns with the goal of mass persuasion, you'll see HEAPS of the saaaame exact patterns in Obama's addresses and advertisements. It's astonishing.

[Jer]

It IS amazing. In an unfortunate way. If you would prefer, we could instead make a comparison of Obama to L. Ron Hubbard and/or the C.o.S. If you know much about the use of NLP and hypnotic speech patterns with the goal of mass persuasion, you'll see HEAPS of the saaaame exact patterns in Obama's addresses and advertisements. It IS amazing.

Dude, don't compare the CoS to Obamma or Hubbard.

[Bite Me]

How about you get a job that pays some jack and help cover the mess fucking Bush has got us into you Douche nozzle.
O, I know, your going to leave this mess for your children and their children and their children, you get my drift, to handle.
Go fuck yourself you selfish asshole.

You are truly delusional. I'm even more of the demographic than you (age & $), and if you really think that Omama, who's already said he'll rape "the rich" (sure doesn't seem that way to me, but whatever) will do ANYTHING to cure the ills of Bushie, you're really haven't been listening (or thinking).

All he'll do is send the money to whoever's been deemed to be the "have nots" who will no doubt spend it admirably to increase our savings rate, bring down the national debt, and make the future brighter for all. - yeah, sure it could happen

Like putting $ into a fund to be redistributed by the government has ever shown to be a worthwhile pursuit. Yeah, let's give the government everything and let them decide how it should be spent. What an idiot.

OK, I'll join with the selfish assholes, and you can be the leader of the fucking morons.

[Jumper Bones]

This has nothing to do with bitterness. Obama is a very weak candidate in the context of a general election. His campaign has been well run - but cynically run. They played both the race and gender cards in a most effective and despicable manner. Clinton is always characterized as "silly" or "emotional" - or "deciding which flowers to put in the entrance hall". If you have any issues whatsoever with Obama, his minions brand you - implicitly or explicitly - as a racist. People should have paid attention to what Geraldine Ferraro said instead of falling for the propaganda spew and branding her a racist too.

Respectfully, bullshit. Hill-dog has played the estrogen card fully as much as he has the dark skin one, and all most people (mostly women) can say is "it's time America had a woman for President!" And any opposition to her must make me sexist or backwards.

She feels that her moment was stolen, the office due to her that she so deserves has been taken, and I think it's justice that her equal-opportunity gender lead was completely neutralized by his racial and charismatic lead. Actually I think it's pretty hilarious.

[liv2ski]

Bite Me,
The above quote was addressed to the ramblings of JS and has nothing to do with reality as nothing he spews has anything to do with reality.
I agree with you and I am very concerned by the Demos promising to do this and that, when frankly we don't have the money to do shit.
McCain is out of the question for me, as he represents four more years of failed policies and the same old shit.
I am willing to take my chances with the new guy. Frankly, once he gets in there, an intelligent person would realize that the jack isn't there for universal healthcare, etc, no matter how much he taxes my family and yours.
Right now the 2 choices are not looking good. I agree with Jer and I do think the masses will vote for McInsane. I lost the last election, what's one more bummer.

[Buster Highmen]

It IS amazing. In an unfortunate way. If you would prefer, we could instead make a comparison of Obama to L. Ron Hubbard and/or the C.o.S. If you know much about the use of NLP and hypnotic speech patterns with the goal of mass persuasion, you'll see HEAPS of the saaaame exact patterns in Obama's addresses and advertisements. It's astonishing.

Is this your perception or do you have some references? In any case, the comparison is reactionary.

In the bigger picture of the election, they're all shits. The question for me is which one is the least bought out, independent of all the little media tricks science has made available. Who has the greatest likelihood of addressing the economic mess that the past 3 Republican encumbents have created? Here's a little hint: It isn't McCain.

[Tippster]

This has nothing to do with bitterness. Obama is a very weak candidate in the context of a general election. His campaign has been well run - but cynically run. They played both the race and gender cards in a most effective and despicable manner. Clinton is always characterized as "silly" or "emotional" - or "deciding which flowers to put in the entrance hall".

Actually that last one was me. What exactly are the duties of a First Lady? Do you know? Because I do -- they're all protocol related, read: picking out the flowers in the entrance hall, among other important things like attending funerals for heads-of-state in small African countries or Princess Di.

The one real job her husband appointed her to do - overhauling Medicare - was a colossal failure.

[Crud's Uncle]

Dohrn, one of Obama friends and fund raisers said this about the Manson murders:

Ms. Dohrn told an S.D.S. audience: ''Dig it! Manson killed those pigs, then they ate dinner in the same room with them, then they shoved a fork into a victim's stomach.''

Yea can't wait for McCain's 527 groups to run ads about Obamas friends. he is one dead black man(at least his election hopes are).

[Adolf Allerbush]

Dohrn, one of Obama friends and fund raisers said this about the Manson murders:

Ms. Dohrn told an S.D.S. audience: ''Dig it! Manson killed those pigs, then they ate dinner in the same room with them, then they shoved a fork into a victim's stomach.''

Yea can't for McCain's 527 groups to run ads about Obamas friends. he is one dead black man(at least his election hopes are).

English muthafucka...do you write it? Try again. That whole post makes no sense. Here's a suggestion for you. Run your posts by your 6th grade English teacher or you mom if you're home schooled (although if you are I would bet your mom is also a illiterate).

Good luck on your next post. Cheers.

[doughboyshredder]

I am sure none of McCain's friends have ever said anything detestable.

Hell, can you imagine what McCain has said about Asians? A drunk McCain going off about killing *****.

[Mathematics]

Arrogance and stupidity is a BAD combination.

Tell ya what, douchie - if you're so confident that I'm just high or something, howsabout putting your e-money where your big mouth is?

McCain wins the general election. If I'm wrong, I quit TGR FOREVER. If McCain does win, you and all the other librodouches go find another message board to hang out on. You can come back to post some ski stoke (like that'll ever happen), but that's it.

The ball's in your court, morons. I haven't lost a bet here yet. Ask Tippster, Assbush or whoever I wagered me eating a whole pineapple against (I ate it whole anyway, just 'cause I'm such a badass).

Librodouches: Math, Tipp, Ride, Dex, Adolph, Truckee, Witherspoon, PNW. Am I missing anybody? I'm sure I am, but there's too many of you to keep track of. Spook can stay. He's far beyond librodouche.

Just imagine - TGR with one less voice of reason to disrupt the librodouche circle-jerk.

ha I'll play. I cant speak for Tipp or anyone else, and I could give a shit less whether you leave TGR or not. but McCain has zero chance in the fall...and it cracks me up how many of you right wingers are in denial about it. newsflash - the majority of people in this country would vote for a blind 3 legged dog before they'd vote for 4 more years of conservative policy. and thats not arrogance...take a look at public polling, take a look at how many seats the GOP is losing, how many people are against the war, or how many people that are citing the economy as their #1 issue...any way you look at it mccain loses.


a recent article from politico:

GOP getting crushed in polls, key races
By JIM VANDEHEI & DAVID PAUL KUHN

John McCain is planning to run as a different kind of Republican. But being any kind of Republican seems like some sort of death sentence these days.

In case you’ve been too consumed by the Democratic race to notice, Republicans are getting crushed in historic ways both at the polls and in the polls.

At the polls, it has been a massacre. In recent weeks, Republicans have lost a Louisiana House seat they had held for more than two decades and an Illinois House seat they had held for more than three. Internal polls show that next week they could lose a Mississippi House seat that they have held for 13 years.

In the polls, they are setting records (and not the good kind). The most recent Gallup Poll has 67 percent of voters disapproving of President Bush; those numbers are worse than Richard Nixon’s on the eve of his resignation. A CBS News poll taken at the end of April found only 33 percent of Americans have a favorable view of the GOP — the lowest since CBS started asking the question more than two decades ago. By comparison, 52 percent of the public has a favorable view of the Democratic Party.

Things are so bad that many people don’t even want to call themselves Republicans. The Pew Research Center for the People & the Press has found the lowest percentage of self-described Republicans in 16 years of polling.

“The anti-Republican mood is fairly big, and it has been overwhelming,” said Michigan Republican Party Chairman Saul Anuzis.

With an environment so toxic, does McCain have even a chance of winning in November?

The McCain camp thinks so — but only if he sands down the “R” next to his name. “Nobody ever gets elected president by running on their party label,” said Charlie Black, a senior McCain adviser. “The character, the qualities, the independence — that certainly allows him to rise over the party label. It is more important than usual to rise above the party label.”

This statement seems a little at odds with the current McCain strategy. The presumptive GOP nominee has spent much of the recent campaign fastening himself to the traditional Republican brand and even to Bush himself. McCain’s views on the war, the overall economy (especially supporting the Bush tax cuts he previously opposed), the mortgage crisis and judicial appointments are hardly the stuff of a new kind of Republicanism.

McCain risks looking inauthentic and conventional to both camps if he simply solidifies his standing with conservatives and then races back to the middle to appeal to swing voters.

For now, Republicans are heartened by how well McCain sometimes does in head-to-head polling with Barack Obama, the likely Democratic nominee. But it’s silly to watch those numbers: They fluctuate and reflect nothing more than momentary feelings about the candidates, and they come at a time when public attention is fixed on the final rounds of the Democratic slugfest.

Right now, most voters with any familiarity with McCain probably know him as a war hero, somewhat of a maverick in the Senate and a pretty affable candidate. Let’s see how they view McCain after Democrats use their decisive money advantage to paint him as a much-older Bush clone who loves an unpopular war and knows little about the economy.

Democrats provided us a look at their polling data from 17 swing states — data they’re using to craft new attacks on McCain as Bush 44. The Democratic National Committee polling, according to a memo it provided, has two-thirds of swing voters expecting McCain to pursue policies very similar to Bush’s. The voters’ top three concerns about McCain: his age, his support for the war and his similarities to Bush.

The latest DNC ad ties two of the three together, slamming McCain over the war and showing a picture of him embracing Bush. Lots more to come on that front, DNC officials said. The DNC will leave the age issue alone for now.

Many top Republicans seem heartened by Obama’s likely victory on the Democratic side. They say they’re confident Obama will pay a big price for his relationship with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, the persistent questions about his patriotism and his inability to connect with working-class whites in swing states.

These are all big problems for Obama. But he will have a massive cash advantage when it comes time to fight back, and the Republican National Committee’s fundraising edge over the DNC won’t be enough to overcome it. Consider this fact: Since the beginning of last year, Obama, Hillary Rodham Clinton and the DNC have raised $460 million total — about $200 million more than what McCain, Mitt Romney and the RNC raised together in the same time span.

Rich liberals operating outside the traditional fundraising structure are also in private talks to vastly outspend the GOP on issue ads and voter mobilization efforts.

Still, McCain’s biggest problem is the toxic political atmosphere for his party.

It’s so toxic, some Republicans are pointing to 1976 as a favorable historical comparison. That was the year Gerald Ford ran in the dark shadows of Watergate and lost to Jimmy Carter. Says Dick Wadhams, the chairman of the Colorado Republican Party: “When voters really homed in on the choice between Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter and what each stood for, Gerald Ford almost won the election despite this horrible environment.”

Almost.

[Ted Striker]

...the majority of people in this country would vote for a blind 3 legged dog before they'd vote for 4 more years of conservative policy.

And that's the crux of it right there - there is nothing conservative about the current GOP's policy.

[Ted Striker]

a illiterate

an illiterate

[13]

Arrogance and stupidity is a BAD combination.

Tell ya what, douchie - if you're so confident that I'm just high or something, howsabout putting your e-money where your big mouth is?

McCain wins the general election. If I'm wrong, I quit TGR FOREVER. If McCain does win, you and all the other librodouches go find another message board to hang out on. You can come back to post some ski stoke (like that'll ever happen), but that's it.

The ball's in your court, morons. I haven't lost a bet here yet. Ask Tippster, Assbush or whoever I wagered me eating a whole pineapple against (I ate it whole anyway, just 'cause I'm such a badass).

Librodouches: Math, Tipp, Ride, Dex, Adolph, Truckee, Witherspoon, PNW. Am I missing anybody? I'm sure I am, but there's too many of you to keep track of. Spook can stay. He's far beyond librodouche.

Just imagine - TGR with one less voice of reason to disrupt the librodouche circle-jerk.

why do you need a reason to quit TGR? can't you just quit?

you haven't even been around long enough to know that there have always been conservatives around here to challenge the liberal viewpoints. this goes all the way back to powdermag.com.

because you have a such hard time grasping that simple fact, it explains a lot about how important you view your role here. you're not as important as you think.

now move along, whiner!