Midfat vs. Cross ski, & a quiver question

**Tony** · 01-04-2007, 02:21 PM

Yes, I want pics of your sister, please.

**Damian Sanders** · 01-04-2007, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by Tony Baloney

Yes, I want pics of your sister, please.

Put up or shut up Tony, I want to know the following about your AC4 setup:

- Ski length
- Tune
- Binding and din setting
- Your height, weight and boot sole
- Days skied on the setup
- Approximate location
- Your skiing background
- How many days a year you ski.
- What do you think of the skis

Please. I'm asking nicely. It would be a good contribution to the thread. Thanks!!!!!

**Adamantium** · 01-04-2007, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by Damian Sanders

Ok there buddy, I'm quite sure you don't know what you are talking about now....and you probably don't ski in the east. Please, please, please, take it back to epicski.

75-90mm waist skis with the right construction/design have plenty of hold on ice, and have the bonus of being very good all around in mixed snow. They are an excellent choice for the east. 70mm skis these days are typically groomer oriented and not as good in variable/mixed snow. You are not paying attention to the original poster, and are pushing your own agenda/ego. He wants a solid all around east coast ski (off piste, trees, etc) that is also good on ice - a cross ski or carving ski is NOT the right choice for that.

i don't understand why you think something like the Allstar can't handle crud/variable/mixed snow? we're not talking about nipple-deep utah powder here. just because that ski is 70mm underfoot doesn't mean it can't handle anything off-piste. i skied it all over mammoth this past week on a variety of terrain and snow and it was great everywhere, NOT just on groomers. it's got an aggressive sidecut so it will definitely be able to get around in tight trees without issue. the tip will provide some flotation in softer snow, but we're talking specifically about an east coast ski here, and specificaly NOT a powder/softsnow ski.

again, i just don't understand what you think he's going to be skiing often in the east that something like the Allstar can't handle?

edit: nevermind, i came back to this thread and didn't realize it'd turned into a flamewar.

**Tony** · 01-04-2007, 02:38 PM

Please. I'm asking nicely too.

It would be a good contribution to the thread too.

Some pics of your sister.

Please.

**Tony** · 01-04-2007, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Adamantium

i don't understand why you think something like the Allstar can't handle crud/variable/mixed snow? we're not talking about nipple-deep utah powder here. just because that ski is 70mm underfoot doesn't mean it can't handle anything off-piste. i skied it all over mammoth this past week on a variety of terrain and snow and it was great everywhere, NOT just on groomers. it's got an aggressive sidecut so it will definitely be able to get around in tight trees without issue. the tip will provide some flotation in softer snow, but we're talking specifically about an east coast ski here, and specificaly NOT a powder/softsnow ski.

again, i just don't understand what you think he's going to be skiing [b]often[/i] in the east that something like the Allstar can't handle?

Fa get about it.

Damian is a lost cause.

**Damian Sanders** · 01-04-2007, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Tony

Please. I'm asking nicely too.

It would be a good contribution to the thread too.

Some pics of your sister.

Please.

I don't have a sister. How about some pics of my ex-gf? Nude?

I want to see the pics and specs of your AC4 setup first though. Thanks.

**Tony** · 01-04-2007, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by Damian Sanders

I don't have a sister. How about some pics of my ex-gf? Nude?

I want to see the pics and specs of your AC4 setup first though. Thanks.

Deal.

There you go.

Attachment 20027

NOW, how about some pics of your ex nude?

**Damian Sanders** · 01-04-2007, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Adamantium

i don't understand why you think something like the Allstar can't handle crud/variable/mixed snow? we're not talking about nipple-deep utah powder here. just because that ski is 70mm underfoot doesn't mean it can't handle anything off-piste. i skied it all over mammoth this past week on a variety of terrain and snow and it was great everywhere, NOT just on groomers. it's got an aggressive sidecut so it will definitely be able to get around in tight trees without issue. the tip will provide some flotation in softer snow, but we're talking specifically about an east coast ski here, and specificaly NOT a powder/softsnow ski.

again, i just don't understand what you think he's going to be skiing [b]often[/i] in the east that something like the Allstar can't handle?

edit: nevermind, i came back to this thread and didn't realize it'd turned into a flamewar.

No, that's a valid point/question, and I'd be happy to discuss it. First lets refer to the Volkl page:

http://www.volkl.com/ski/supersport_..._titanium.html

The allstar is basicly a carving ski that is billed as somewhat versitile. I'm sure it is somewhat versitile, but it's area of top performance is going to be ripping icy groomed trails. With a radius of 16m at 175 and 18.5m at 182cm, it's going to be most comfortable with very small GS turns and run out of sidecut once speeds get higher. Sidecut is not really an asset in tight eastern trees, most of the time you will be making a pivoted or scarved turn, and a deep sidecut will only get squirelly, and hook up on crap that you don't want it to. Due to the narrow waist, it will be harder to make high angle carves on mixed/choppy snow.

If you go to something a bit fatter, such as in the 80 to 90mm waist range, you'll give up very little in ice edge hold if the ski is tuned properly. What you'll gain is stablity. The ski will typically be able to plow over soft snow better, you'll be able to carve deeper on mixed snow, and you'll get better float in powder. Chances are the ski is also going to have a radius around 20m or plus, which will be better at speed. Then you get into the nuances of the ski - something like the public enemey is massively different than an allstar, and overall is much better on rough snow, trees, bumps, etc, IMHO.

Also, I think you have to get the allstar with the integrated markers.....booooo.

**Adamantium** · 01-04-2007, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by Damian Sanders

No, that's a valid point/question, and I'd be happy to discuss it. First lets refer to the Volkl page:

http://www.volkl.com/ski/supersport_..._titanium.html

The allstar is basicly a carving ski that is billed as somewhat versitile. I'm sure it is somewhat versitile, but it's area of top performance is going to be ripping icy groomed trails. With a radius of 16m at 175 and 18.5m at 182cm, it's going to be most comfortable with very small GS turns and run out of sidecut once speeds get higher. Sidecut is not really an asset in tight eastern trees, most of the time you will be making a pivoted or scarved turn, and a deep sidecut will only get squirelly, and hook up on crap that you don't want it to. Due to the narrow waist, it will be harder to make high angle carves on mixed/choppy snow.

If you go to something a bit fatter, such as in the 80 to 90mm waist range, you'll give up very little in ice edge hold if the ski is tuned properly. What you'll gain is stablity. The ski will typically be able to plow over soft snow better, you'll be able to carve deeper on mixed snow, and you'll get better float in powder. Chances are the ski is also going to have a radius around 20m or plus, which will be better at speed. Then you get into the nuances of the ski - something like the public enemey is massively different than an allstar, and overall is much better on rough snow, trees, bumps, etc, IMHO.

Also, I think you have to get the allstar with the integrated markers.....booooo.

so the concern is stability at speed and in irregular snow? this doesn't jive with my experience on the ski, but perhaps i'll have to revisit this thread in 4 months after i've had more time on them.

**Damian Sanders** · 01-04-2007, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by Tony

Deal.

There you go.

Attachment 20027

NOW, how about some pics of your ex nude?

No way man. I need the full specs of your setup and at least one full pic of the skis, preferably dry. Those aren't this years ski either, they are last years (fine by me).

**Tony** · 01-04-2007, 03:12 PM

That is not how it works.

I already gave you some so you should give me some too.

I'll only give you those specs for a pic of one of her nipples.

And a pic of the whole ski for the whole ex's bada bing pic.

**Damian Sanders** · 01-04-2007, 03:24 PM

Nope, sorry. Full specs.

**Damian Sanders** · 01-04-2007, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by Adamantium

so the concern is stability at speed and in irregular snow? this doesn't jive with my experience on the ski, but perhaps i'll have to revisit this thread in 4 months after i've had more time on them.

Well, I suggest you compare it to a fatter high perfomance ski. It's not just stablity....it's how it performs in mixed snow, how far you can push it, and what it will let you get away with doing. What have you skied in the 80 to 90mm waist range? How big are your allstars?

I'm not saying they are a bad ski, I just don't like them.

**Tony** · 01-04-2007, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by Damian Sanders

Nope, sorry. Full specs.

Still talking out of your ass.

**Damian Sanders** · 01-04-2007, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Tony

Still talking out of your ass.

Ski specs for nude pics? Your loss.

**falou** · 01-04-2007, 04:02 PM

My .02 as I'm looking for a similar ski for when it hasn't snowed in awhile and I want to rip some groomers and still ski everywhere else. The ones i want to try are

Stockli XL (top of list)
Stockli Rotor
Salomon Tornado - felt surprisingly stiff when I flexed it in the shop
Head 82

Also I think Damian has some good points, the PE is supposed to be excellent for an east coast all mtn ski, even though I haven't skied it, I tried the AC4 last year, it was a good capable ski everywhere, but didn't really do anything for me, a bit of a planky feel, this years is supposed to be more lively though. Not really impressed with the double grip technology either, the 6 star was a 2x4, Atomics have a much more fun, lively feel. The new M11 is a really fun ski, but unfortunately the longest is a 176 so probably rules it out.

**Tony** · 01-04-2007, 04:40 PM

**flip** · 01-04-2007, 07:28 PM

at what point does a thread go from douched to kfukt?

**El Chupacabra** · 01-04-2007, 07:43 PM

Think dogwonder is still even reading this thread?

**dogwonder** · 01-04-2007, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

Think dogwonder is still even reading this thread?

Of course! I popped some corn a while ago.

**El Chupacabra** · 01-04-2007, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by dogwonder

Of course! I popped some corn a while ago.

So, having never actually skied in the east, I'm an expert on east coast off-piste skiing....

... not.

Do skis really get trashed if you ski off the groomers in the east? i.e., in a normal snow year, is the cover so thin that you're gonna hit rocks if you go tree skiing?

**dogwonder** · 01-04-2007, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

So, having never actually skied in the east, I'm an expert on east coast off-piste skiing....

... not.

Do skis really get trashed if you ski off the groomers in the east? i.e., in a normal snow year, is the cover so thin that you're gonna hit rocks if you go tree skiing?

I've definitely hit my fair share of rocks when ridding out here. Ripped the base out of the aforementioned Bandit XX's. It get's really bad if you go to a place lake Mad River where they don't manicure any part of the mountain (snow or ground).

I don't have a lot of west coast trips under my belt so can't say it is more or less than other regions.

**PNWbrit** · 01-04-2007, 09:25 PM

All we need is Highway Star to start some race stock blathering and this thruntfest would be complete.

**seldon** · 01-05-2007, 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by PNWbrit

All we need is Highway Star to start some race stock blathering and this thruntfest would be complete.

highway star doesn't thrunt, he 'backseat rips'

**Adamantium** · 01-05-2007, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by Damian Sanders

Well, I suggest you compare it to a fatter high perfomance ski. It's not just stablity....it's how it performs in mixed snow, how far you can push it, and what it will let you get away with doing. What have you skied in the 80 to 90mm waist range? How big are your allstars?

I'm not saying they are a bad ski, I just don't like them.

here's the rundown i guess.

i'm 6' and only 145lbs. i'm young (22) and have been skiing all my life, so i certainly ski aggressively, but i don't weigh much. i rode the allstars in 175, and i couldn't make them feel unstable. (this surprised me, i was expecting to like them in 182 better) my fat skis are legend 8800's at 178 and they serve me extremely well in soft snow and powder. at 88mm underfoot, that's the fattest ski i've spent significant time on. (i've spent about half a day each on the scratch bc's and pocket rockets)

i just think it's a bit rediculous to claim that 70mm is too narrow for an east-coast ski.