Runners I have a question about sore feet

**snowdreamer** · 10-09-2006, 11:44 PM

I've been running for about two and a half weeks. I started with a couple of 2mile runs. By the 3rd day I was running 3 miles at 8 1/2 to 9 minute mile pace. Now my left foot is extremely sore. The arch, heel and the outside of my foot are super tender. The pain is excruciating.

I know the cause of the tenderness was all the pounding on the pavement. The first few days I had a hard time finding my rhythm, my stride was off and I felt my feet pounding the ground. Now there is lots of pain.

I am extremely pissed off at myself. You'd think at my age I would know better. Not only am I not able to run I am unable to do much of anything else. No lifting, boxing is out of the question and even kicking in the pool is painful.

I've been icing and taking ibuprofen for the past two days. Rubbing
tiger balm and wrapping it at night. I am taking a week off and I hope that by
next Monday I can walk a mile. You better believe I will go out slow next time. (I just don't have the patience to run slower than I already do.)

If anyone has any suggestions I would really appreciate it.
The pain is unbearable. There is no swelling but the pain is just to much.

BTW, this is the same foot I sprained two years ago I had to take close to a
year off to let it heal. The range of motion is very limited I'm wondering if
this is part of the problem.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give.

**Viva** · 10-10-2006, 08:25 AM

You're not telling us much there. Sounds like a mix of plantar faciitis and ligament/tendon strain. I doubt you could have induced a stress fracture so soon.

You're in SoCal, yes? There's a running store (Starting Line) in Marina del Rey where a podiatrist gives a free clinic once a month on a Saturday (at least he used to). Try looking them up and find out whether or not this service is still being offered and when it's next offered. I can contact them, too, if you've no luck. This guy (Dan Altshuler [sp?])is mucho excellent and has helped me in the past.

good luck!

Edit- Plantar Fasciitis

**Vinman** · 10-10-2006, 10:39 AM

Arch and heel pain are typically caused by plantar fascitis. Are you having morning pain? ie. sharp stabbing pain in your arch when you first get out of bed for the first few steps?

**snowdreamer** · 10-10-2006, 01:36 PM

Viva, thank you I will look up the place

Vinman, YES YES YES... Sunday I couldn't even walk. I had to stretch my
foot and massage it before I could even take a step. It took about an
hour before I was able to walk. I will google plantar fascitis.
Thank you.

L7 · 10-10-2006, 01:49 PM

Find a good (serious) running store and get a gait analysis and get the right pair of shoes for you or if necessary an othotic to run in. The podiatrist route above sounds like a bonus. Unfortunately you are going to have to wait a bit to let this heal up some before you can really assess your needs.

Vinman will tune you in on the best advice for it to heal up quick I'm sure.

**canyonrider** · 10-10-2006, 02:19 PM

As far as icing goes: soaking your foot for 10-15 minutes in a cool/cold ice water (45-55 degrees) bucket may be more effective than just pressing a bag of ice on your foot. Put a sock around your toes for insulation.

Also keep an eye on the casual/non-running shoes you wear. Something with good arch support (e.g. Birkenstocks) can help stretch out the plantar fascia when not running.

And when you get back to it, stay off the roads and get on grass and soft surfaces as much as possible.

**Daywalker** · 10-10-2006, 02:27 PM

Here's a nice long thread about it from someones earlier issue:
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...hlight=plantar

**snowdreamer** · 10-10-2006, 04:35 PM

L7, thanks for the advice.

Canyonrider, running on grass and uneven surfaces is almost out of the question for me. I've sprained my left foot so many times that stepping
on any uneven surface makes the ankle twist.

Daywalker, thanks for the link. Lots of very useful information and it
seems he is describing what I'm feeling.

**XtrPickels** · 10-10-2006, 04:58 PM

Snowdreamer- As i sit here...in the running store that I work at... I can only urge you to get to a specialty store and have a gait analysis.
Comon up to Bozeman, its been slow in the store today and I could use something to do.

PS. What shoes do you have now?

**snowdreamer** · 10-10-2006, 05:28 PM

XtrP, thanks for the invite.

I believe I had a gait analysis at Snails Pace in Brea, CA.
Not sure if what they did was a gait analysis or not. They had
me try on several pairs of shoes and watched me run while
they looked at my feet, from the back the side and the front.

Based on that I run in a pair of Boston Adidas, I love them. Best
pair of shoes I've ever ran in. I've ran in Nikes, NB and Saucony.
but these are my favorite. My doctor thinks I should switch to
run in a pair of NB that are made for stability and have extra
cushioining. He doesn't like Adidas. I'm not to fond of NB. Let me know what you think.

**Vinman** · 10-10-2006, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by snowdreamer

.

I've sprained my left foot so many times that stepping
on any uneven surface makes the ankle twist.

possibly why you are now having arch pain. If the muscles in your lower leg and feet are not strong enough due to previous injuries it might be contributing to your current situation. If the muscles are not able to stabilize your foot and ankle the force can be transmitted to ligaments and the platar fascia = injury.

As far as treatment goes, ice for the next few days, ice bgas, cold soaks, ice massage (frozen dixie cup of water and rub on area) are all good ways to ice.

After that begin gentle stretching of the calf and achillies

once the pain begins to go down you should begin strength exercises for the arch and lower leg muscles.

If this becomes stubborn, some peeps have good luck with night splints, that prevent the achillies, calf and plantar fascia from tightening over night.

Let me know if you need more info.

**Daywalker** · 10-10-2006, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by snowdreamer

...He doesn't like Adidas. I'm not to fond of NB. Let me know what you think.

Difference between brands is bull-oney. Go with the one's that fit your foot best (FEEL best) as long as they are appropriate to your gate type. It sounds like you did get a gate analysis. If the shoe's worked well, great, you may need another pair of them. They should only be lasting 400-500 miles of actual running (less if you wear them around all of the time). The fact that you're doc is straight up telling you to go to NB without regards to the shoe makes him sound like an assclown. If you have good history with Adidas and need another pair but aren't sure what the followup is (I can probably look back and see but don't have old catalogues right now) go to a real running store with your old shoes and spill the beans to them. They should be able to help.

**Vinman** · 10-10-2006, 06:36 PM

I would agree with some of the above but change gait type, to foot type. Generally there are 3 foot types. They are pronators, supinator and neutral. Pronators generally have a flat arch during weight bearing and the ankle tilts to the inside. These peeps usually need a shoe that offers a lot of arch and ankle support. Supinators have a high arch and tight calves and tilt to the outside. These peeps need a shoe with cushioning and somewhat flexible. Neutral has a medium arch and the ankle does not tilt.

Going by feel is not always the best route either. a shoe taht feels good is not necessarily a shoe that is built to fit the type of foot you have.

one good way to find your foot type is to try out some of the shoe finders some of the online places have. One of my favorites is www.roadrunnersports.com the shoe finder thiny will ask you what your arch looks like, the type of running you do and maybe a couple other things. It then spits out different models from sevaeral shoe makers.

After that write those down and then go try them on in a store before you buy. Then and only then go with what feels best.

**Viva** · 10-10-2006, 08:28 PM

I've never been to Snail's Pace, but they have a solid reputation and probably did a proper gait analysis.

Dan Altshuler, assuming he still does the free clinic, will give you the best free advice in SoCal. Period. I have ways to contact him.

If you fancy another gait analysis or simply want to try the best running store in SoCal, go to Phiddippedes in Encino. Ask for Charlie or Craig and tell them that one of the Rats sent you.

The other guys are right. Shoe brand no matter, the right shoe does. A worn out shoe can cause injuries- trust me on this one. The wrong shoe can also cause injury- Hell, it probably will.

Yeah, keep your old shoes, there's a lot of history in them and the trained eye will be able to read that history and help you.

**yentna** · 10-11-2006, 12:59 PM

Another thing is to start out slowly when you get better and start running again, and keep the initial distances small. Don't run every day, and increase by no more than 10% a week.

Seems like a snail's pace to go from 5 miles total one week, to 5.5 the next, but within a few months you'll be pulling 20 mile weeks, and then more. Good luck!

**snowdreamer** · 10-21-2006, 12:53 AM

I finally made it to the gym last night. As I was kicking the boxing bag I realized how weak my left leg is from the knee down. I work out quite a bit
lots of leg work. It dawned on me as I kicked that bag, I've never worked
my lower legs. Not becasue I'm lazy but because I've never liked the look of bulky calve muscles in women. I know pretty darn stupid.

This evening I made it to the gym and started with stretching of the calves and achilles. I moved on to the seated calve raise and used a 10 lb weight. I did one leg at at time.... My god. My left leg is so weak. I did 3 sets of 12reps. My ankle hurt like hell and the pain went all the way up to my knee
and almost to my hip. Until I read your post Vinman, on lower leg strength and how it affects the feet, I hadn't paid attention to my lower legs.

I had surgery 20 years ago on my left foot and it has been weak ever since.
Is there anyway I will ever regain that strength and mobility in that ankle.
Are there other exercises besides calve raises that will help strengthen
the lower leg. Someone recommended I find a good PT to do an evaluation.

What do you think Vinman?

**Vinman** · 10-22-2006, 04:32 PM

balancing. First on a hard flat surface, then on something soft like a foam pad. then later on a BOSU or dynadisc.

**snowdreamer** · 10-22-2006, 07:32 PM

Thanks Vinman.

**4matic** · 10-23-2006, 11:59 AM

Plantar Faciitis (bruised heal) sucks.. I got it from jumping rope on concrete and it took two years to heal and it is still vulnerable. If you have any pain in the arch or heal do not run.. Complete rest is the only real treatment. Also, never walk around barefoot in your house. always wear sandals or something to cushion the heal and arch.

It's ok to ski because your foot is padded and locked in place.

**squirrel** · 10-24-2006, 06:36 PM

Vinman must be a PT because he's right on the money. Balancing will help you with strengthening and stability for running on trails and soft surfaces like grass without rolling your ankles and will also help your control while skiing. I balance on a wobble board all the time weather I need it or not to strengthen my feet and ankles.
Also who ever said not build mileage too fast is also right on the money. Running is a very physical activity and until your muscles and ligaments get strength from this activity it is very easy to hurt yourself as you have found out. Take care and get healed up and don't give up on running.

**Vinman** · 10-24-2006, 06:59 PM

close, Certified Athletic Trainer

**snowdreamer** · 10-24-2006, 08:02 PM

Once again I want to thank all of you for your input.

Vinman, last night I started balancing. Wow, I couldn't balance for more
than 5 seconds when I started. I worked on this for about 15 minutes.
I was amazed at how weak my foot is. You better believe I will continue
to balance to strengthen my left foot.

squirrel, I'm not giving up on running I'm just taking a bit of time off to make
sure my foot heals. I enjoy running quite a bit.

**Vinman** · 10-25-2006, 08:26 AM

once you can balance on both hard and soft surfaces, make it a bit more fun by playing catch with a partner. Vary toss positions so you have to shift your weight/balance point.

Also stuff like scrunching up a towel with your toes will help strengthen your foot muscles in your arch.

**Dips** · 10-25-2006, 03:47 PM

I guess plantar fasciitis seems to be the maggot problem du jour.

I made it through 15 weeks of marathon training with mileage peaks of 60mi/week and I pull up lame in my taper.

Is that messed up or what?

Go for a 6 mile run yesterday at lunch, sit in an afternoon meeting, stand up and feel the arch/heel getting a bit painful. Wake up this morning and think "mother f'er". Gimp around and think of every stretch possible.

Who the hell gets tweaked during a taper? Bastardos!

**squirrel** · 10-26-2006, 01:41 PM

Bummer Dips... How soon is your marathon? If your in your taper I would guess within a couple of weeks. I've run several marathons and ultra distance runs and it always amazes me what seems to pop up during a taper.

I would suggest soaking your feet in a bucket of ice water, it's painful but very effective in icing your whole foot. I would also schedule a massage with a good sports massage therapist. Have him/her really work over your feet and calves as Planter Fasciitis is often brought on my tight calf muscles. While your at it have them work you hamstrings, quads and gluts as well. Also do as much calf and foot stretching like "downward dog" yoga stretch and hold for a good minute or two or longer if you can both morning and night.

Relax and go run a awesome marathon. Which one are you doing?