Wildfire ‘24

[Crusty]

For the real Morons, We don’t know how it started yet,

Attachment 509903

So, how did the court thing go today?

[JibbaJabba]

Any system in as hot of a fire as this will fail - timing ultimately saved the home.

Gypsum is naturally fire-retardant and that’s largely why white sands, New Mexico was picked for the Atomic Trinity Site - it’s a gypsum desert there. Also, I performed site visits for the Hermits Peak wildfire, New Mexico’s largest fire. I’ve seen it all, and this looks familiar. Believe it or not - all things burn.

Edit; Made post more concise and definitive.

Edit 2; The home’s building method has little to do with why it ultimately survived and is entirely dependent on chance that the fire didn’t evidently surround it and encroach. A greater building method ONLY buys time in natural disaster situations; from what I’ve been exposed too. Enough exposure to special conditions over a prolonged time will compromise any structure.

What is your take on masonry systems, like brick or stone houses? For example, sometimes you see a building that burned down completely, except the chimney is still standing. Do you think brick or stone houses could be a viable option in areas at high risk of wildfire? Compared to modern building systems, they have a longer, more proven track record. A lack of airflow may be good in some environments, but just because there's no air flow doesn't mean there are no air pockets, and changes in temperature can lead to condensation, or there can be leaks. Once water is introduced to these systems there's often nowhere for it to go, which can lead to mold and mildew issues.

In a lot of ways modern construction methods have moved backwards, and are focused more on the short term than longevity. Partly from the need for mass production, we've forgotten as much as we've learned about building methods. Reducing up front costs through standard systems using manufactured products takes priority over using high quality materials and time tested craftsmanship. But I do agree, natural disasters will eventually overwhelm just about any building method. It brings to mind how in Japan they developed methods of building with stone that are resistant to earthquakes, but in other cases they used very simple building methods, knowing that it would be more feasible to simply rebuild some things than to try to build everything to be totally indestructible.

[Crusty]

Tits or GTFO.

[GBB]

Far greater value in building/investing resiliency into the system, if that is even feasible in an wildland-urban interface.

Your position here makes sense given the context you provided around planting costs. Thanks for going into that level of detail. Could you expand on what you mean by building resiliency into the system?

It would seem like that, but if there hasn’t been a problem fire close by within the last couple years people in the area can often start to get really unhappy about thinning/clearing, Rx fire nearby, and/or smoke impacts.

Turns out undoing decades of overgrowth is difficult.

[BCMtnHound]

Your position here makes sense given the context you provided around planting costs. Thanks for going into that level of detail. Could you expand on what you mean by building resiliency into the system?

From a wildland perspective, building resiliency could mean many things. Influencing plant communities for example. Here, we target removal of more flammable species like western cedar in public land harvesting around communities, and encourage deciduous like aspen and birch. Fuel reduction treatments are expensive, but get cheaper with each entry, with more options once the fuel loading is reduced to maintenance levels. Investing in infrastructure like semi-permanent access and control lines, coupled with planning vegetation stratum and fuel free zones. If range is an option, planning herd movement at specific times to reduce some vegetation (range barriers, both natural and manmade, would need investment). Wetlands protected/enhanced, or other natural water reservoirs could be established where appropriate.
Public education is also money very well spent. So many want to defend their home when the fire races towards them, but how many will contribute their time training with the local fire brigade well in advance of the need.
The list goes on, and depends on what you have to work with, and the public/private investments palpable to the local community.

[liv2ski]

Huh, my thread/ feed there is pretty benign. No politics, or angry people, just lots of animals and expats.

[liv2ski]

Not that I know shit, but I imagined roof top sprinklers connected to a generator and pool would be a good starting point with fire resistant exteriors. A few sprinklers hosing down the homes sides would help to.
If you have the money to live there, these could of been easy improvements and maybe made the difference with adequate setbacks.

[neufox47]

According to my brother, who’s a fire protection engineer, exterior sprinklers do very little. Some of the foam systems are effective but very expensive to install and the cleanup cost from deploying it is significant.


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[californiagrown]

A couple thoughts on the LA fires:

-Would anything have prevented devastation when you combine drought conditions with sustained 50+mph winds gusting to 100mph? Lots of fire guys on here who can probably speak to this, but it seems impossible to do anything about fire in those conditions once its started.

-I dont understand the hullabaloo about hydrants running dry (low pressure). Municipal water systems are generally going to be designed for ~3000gpm at a certain PSI for 2 hours (yes there are different pressure zones and looped systems for redundancy, and factors of safety etc). Drops in pressure from having 3 hydrants open in the same area are why pumper trucks are part of every FD. But the fact remains that when you have every hydrant in the City open at one time, and every homeowner has their sprinkler system and hose bib going... the water mains cannot support the flow. Not even close. No infrastructure system is sized/designed for a maximum worst case scenario (not buildings, roads, or utilities) as that would be insane over-engineering. Was there some other reason people are getting upset about this? Was there actual mismanagment, or is this just a case of people not understanding municipal engineering and its realistic limits?

[Bunion 2020]

Was there actual mismanagement, or is this just a case of people not understanding municipal engineering and its realistic limits?

A rhetorical question?

[XXX-er]

I believe Trump blamed the fire in LA on Californians which was to be expected, maybe he will show up to give the crowd paper towels ?

Up here the guys who worked fires would be seasonal hires but the BC gov has them full time/ permanent

[MagnificentUnicorn]

GOTTA BLAME SOMEONE!!!!!!


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[raisingarizona13]

A couple thoughts on the LA fires:

-Would anything have prevented devastation when you combine drought conditions with sustained 50+mph winds gusting to 100mph? Lots of fire guys on here who can probably speak to this, but it seems impossible to do anything about fire in those conditions once its started.

-I dont understand the hullabaloo about hydrants running dry (low pressure). Municipal water systems are generally going to be designed for ~3000gpm at a certain PSI for 2 hours (yes there are different pressure zones and looped systems for redundancy, and factors of safety etc). Drops in pressure from having 3 hydrants open in the same area are why pumper trucks are part of every FD. But the fact remains that when you have every hydrant in the City open at one time, and every homeowner has their sprinkler system and hose bib going... the water mains cannot support the flow. Not even close. No infrastructure system is sized/designed for a maximum worst case scenario (not buildings, roads, or utilities) as that would be insane over-engineering. Was there some other reason people are getting upset about this? Was there actual mismanagment, or is this just a case of people not understanding municipal engineering and its realistic limits?

Yeah, I have a hard time believing that sprinkler systems would have much of an impact against the current conditions.

I'm really disappointed that some politicians are turning this into a blame game and pointing fingers. My biggest worry with another Trump presidency is his lack of restraint to throw gas on the fire. It's dangerous and not something I want from a leader. It's just not helpful in times of serious disaster.

[406]

Altadena isn't high income, hopefully someone comes up with an affordable earthquake/fire proof concrete construction for rebuilding.

Although, I was under the impression that a lot of houses (stucco w/ tile roof) in situations like this catch on fire because embers get into the attic? so I plan to block the attic vents if possible prior to evacuating. Got me thinking, I should probably pre-stage all the stuff, so I could get it done in a few minutes. Pretty sure the stupid eucalyptus trees in the green space behind my house that the HOA refuses to cut down are going to be a problem.

[XXX-er]

A couple thoughts on the LA fires:

-Would anything have prevented devastation when you combine drought conditions with sustained 50+mph winds gusting to 100mph? Lots of fire guys on here who can probably speak to this, but it seems impossible to do anything about fire in those conditions once its started.

-I dont understand the hullabaloo about hydrants running dry (low pressure). Municipal water systems are generally going to be designed for ~3000gpm at a certain PSI for 2 hours (yes there are different pressure zones and looped systems for redundancy, and factors of safety etc). Drops in pressure from having 3 hydrants open in the same area are why pumper trucks are part of every FD. But the fact remains that when you have every hydrant in the City open at one time, and every homeowner has their sprinkler system and hose bib going... the water mains cannot support the flow. Not even close. No infrastructure system is sized/designed for a maximum worst case scenario (not buildings, roads, or utilities) as that would be insane over-engineering. Was there some other reason people are getting upset about this? Was there actual mismanagment, or is this just a case of people not understanding municipal engineering and its realistic limits?

I think in 100 mph wind you get out of the way or you become crispy critter

Localy up here in the North Wet when a fire took out half a block as i understand the FD were running low on water cuz there had never been a fire like that so how would anyone know ?

But nobody got blamed, the town just put in another water line, I made some bank surveying that other line

on tthe CBC a karen was heard talking about FFers dowsing flames with birkin bags ( ladies purses) full of water giggle

[LegoSkier]

Altadena isn't high income, hopefully someone comes up with an affordable earthquake/fire proof concrete construction for rebuilding.

I don't know shit about construction but it seems like rebuilding from these fires would be a perfect opportunity to scale up 3D printed houses. Fire-resistant, can be made earthquake resistant (curved walls), can be made to include local aggregate/sand and blend in to the environment.

https://parametric-architecture.com/...und-the-world/

[XXX-er]

if yer lucky insurance ( if you have any ) doesnt fuck you around and you rebuild with the same

[fomofo]

A couple thoughts on the LA fires:

-Would anything have prevented devastation when you combine drought conditions with sustained 50+mph winds gusting to 100mph? Lots of fire guys on here who can probably speak to this, but it seems impossible to do anything about fire in those conditions once its started.

The Tubbs Fire a few years ago was a real eye opener for me. Fast moving, wind driven. Jumped a major freeway then completely laid waste to a suburban housing development. Smaller scale version of what’s happened in LA.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tubbs_Fire

.Pretty sure the stupid eucalyptus trees in the green space behind my house that the HOA refuses to cut down are going to be a problem.

You should have them look at this…

https://firesafemarin.org/articles/e...calyptus-trees

Short of removal there are some things that can be done to mitigate risk.

[XXX-er]

In the last big Kelowna wild fire ( there have been 2) it jumped Okanagan lake from the west side across MILES of lake

[plugboots]

Last big fire here near Bridgeport and Pateros Washington, fire crossed the Columbia.
And yet my neighbor wants to dig a 4 foot wide (basically a moat), around his house and wants me to OK it, or go in on it with him.
The reality is, I’m gonna do something like I did the last time, which is grab my prepared bag-o-stuff, take one last picture, and get the hell out of there, and maybe watch the spectacle from a friend‘s house.

[plugboots]

What is your take on masonry systems, like brick or stone houses? For example, sometimes you see a building that burned down completely, except the chimney is still standing. Do you think brick or stone houses could be a viable option in areas at high risk of wildfire? Compared to modern building systems, they have a longer, more proven track record. A lack of airflow may be good in some environments, but just because there's no air flow doesn't mean there are no air pockets, and changes in temperature can lead to condensation, or there can be leaks. Once water is introduced to these systems there's often nowhere for it to go, which can lead to mold and mildew issues.

In a lot of ways modern construction methods have moved backwards, and are focused more on the short term than longevity. Partly from the need for mass production, we've forgotten as much as we've learned about building methods. Reducing up front costs through standard systems using manufactured products takes priority over using high quality materials and time tested craftsmanship. But I do agree, natural disasters will eventually overwhelm just about any building method. It brings to mind how in Japan they developed methods of building with stone that are resistant to earthquakes, but in other cases they used very simple building methods, knowing that it would be more feasible to simply rebuild some things than to try to build everything to be totally indestructible.

I was quoting from the Reddit article for TGR benefit.

[nickwm21]

I don't know shit about construction but it seems like rebuilding from these fires would be a perfect opportunity to scale up 3D printed houses. Fire-resistant, can be made earthquake resistant (curved walls), can be made to include local aggregate/sand and blend in to the environment.

https://parametric-architecture.com/...und-the-world/

3D printing construction is far from viable at this point…

We should be building homes like they do in Japan. Prefab unitized deck and wall panels. Stand the thing in a day with a boom truck. They even prefab footings and bathroom / kitchen slide in units…


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[plugboots]

3D printing construction is far from viable at this point…

We should be building homes like they do in Japan. Prefab unitized deck and wall panels. Stand the thing in a day with a boom truck. They even prefab footings and bathroom / kitchen slide in units…


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I was just talking about this with my architect friend at dinner last night. They were just in Japan and it just cracks me up that especially in rural areas we’re sticking to whatever the hell construction methods they call it here.
They’re obviously having issues rebuilding in Maui and it seems to make sense that you would use the Japanese method of making these really cool pre-fabricated dwelling parts and ship the parts to Hawaii instead of whatever they’re doing.

[rideit]

This is for the Racist Morans, you know who you are.

https://www.npr.org/2025/01/10/nx-s1...ino-immigrants

[raisingarizona13]