Wildfire ‘24

[Cono Este]

Ok, for the mouth breathing morons, this didn’t happen because of the Mayor or whatever, it happened because of this. (Key Takeaway, mostly due to Oceanic Heatwaves, and related drought).

Gore was right. PERIOD.

https://www.vox.com/climate/394005/p...rnia-explainer

For the real Morons, We don’t know how it started yet,

[Bunion 2020]

For the real Morons, We don’t know how it started yet,

And you eat pieces of shit for breakfast.

[byates1]

I eat pieces of shit

[byates1]

[Meadow Skipper]

@meadow skipper and others with extensive wildland fire experience - I'd be curious to hear your opinions on where prevention and mitigation resources should best be deployed? What's the next best alternative to prescribed burns in areas where they are difficult (and I imagine impossible in some cases) to conduct due to population growth?

Well, as far as where, what do you want to protect? Buildings? Towns? Habitat for rare species? Watersheds? ‘Viewsheds?’ Even airsheds (Rx burns can release less smoke than wildfires or have it during favorable dispersion conditions)? Important industry/infrastructure (logging/grazing/mining etc.)? Categories like that tend to get prioritized, depending on local needs and/or wants.

The best alternative to Rx Fire also depends on things like the local situation and conditions and economics. Manual thinning of trees and vegetation might be appropriate, and mechanical removal means like with heavy machinery might be appropriate and workable. Grazing livestock, like goats, might work depending on the vegetation and availability. And projects to do things like replacing highly flammable or undesirable vegetation (often invasive, annual species or conifers) with less flammable things like perennial plants and hardwoods.

Sorry for the broad brush answer, but yeah, “it depends.”

One of our recent presidents has suggested raking , I don’t know, maybe

[Bunion 2020]

One of our recent presidents has suggested raking , I don’t know, maybe

Like chicken soup? It couldn't hoit.

[byates1]

If my ordinary house shot up in value to 4-7M, then INS was like yeah nah, I'd take that harbinger and bounce

I know easier said than done but.

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

When we bought our house in the mountains, it was located in the highest wildland fire risk classification - rural with a volly fire team, no hydrants, bad terrain... And all that with a previous water damage claim. Sweet place. Only insurance we could get was a garbage class risk pool policy with a huge deductible and shit coverage. But it was explained to us if we burned, to hope that it was in a wildfire with a bunch of other houses going up in flames and then the government would bail us out.

[bodywhomper]

That’s the insurance earthquake hedge


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[plugboots]

link please? I could dig around but I try to limit my exposure to reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsin...are&utm_term=1

I’m an architect; I know all of these words and what they mean - the thermal bridge free detailing is when you separate the likewise material structure and joints with an additional barrier that is both fire resistant, insulating, and plastic (expansive, not the literal definition). These “bridges” are the material gaps and seams of the facade which would conduct and transfer heat (perhaps metal studs with wood sheathing, metal flashing at the roof deck, rooftop connections holding wood trusses to a wood wall) and, which would technically permeate thermal leakage into and out of the home. The gaps in the boards when they are “sheathing” often have expansion joints as another prime example. You see the most common thermal bridging at every “perforation” (door/window) that is affixed on any plane which compromises the interior envelope to the exterior condition - otherwise known as a “threshold”. The threshold is an exposure of the “thermal barrier”, to be more concise. The Thermal Barrier is the conditioned areas of your home, unlike typically the Garage which is not. Regardless of conditioned vs. unconditioned treatments - all thresholds on any plane exposing an interior to the exterior are to be sealed, situationally insulated, and conditionally air-tight - by code - but this is an extracurricular and custom passive system. This is achieved with expansive foam insulation in all cavities of the roof, the wall, and the floor sub-system if there is one so that any air is suffocated with foam. The foundation further likely has a 1” poly-foam shell around the total perimeter wherever concrete meets earth - yes, even under the slab but with enough of an allowable drainage condition to exist for the building to bear into the earth. The glazing? It’s just a shit load of layers of glass with gasses between them that dilute the thermal heat gain - as light enters each layer the gasses react and reduce its radiance by each passing layer toward the interior envelope. Very expensive, special frames and jambs if they’re high quality and rating.

In total - it doesn’t exactly explain why the home is still standing. All of what I mentioned are flammable products, even if it’s air tight - the exterior could still catch and expose the seal of the home that way. The siding is either proofed and coated with a thermal-retardant compound, the home has a fire suppressant system that has an exterior-exclusive function, or, they sheathed the whole thing with Gypsum Board and Thermo-Ply plus the 1” foam shell over a Zip system AND it could be all three at the same time. The bigger cue to a suppression system is that the yard is further intact whereas the neighboring lots are fucked to shit. Any system in as hot of a fire as this will fail - timing ultimately saved the home.

Gypsum is naturally fire-retardant and that’s largely why white sands, New Mexico was picked for the Atomic Trinity Site - it’s a gypsum desert there. Also, I performed site visits for the Hermits Peak wildfire, New Mexico’s largest fire. I’ve seen it all, and this looks familiar. Believe it or not - all things burn.

Edit; Made post more concise and definitive.

Edit 2; The home’s building method has little to do with why it ultimately survived and is entirely dependent on chance that the fire didn’t evidently surround it and encroach. A greater building method ONLY buys time in natural disaster situations; from what I’ve been exposed too. Enough exposure to special conditions over a prolonged time will compromise any structure.

``````````````````
I’d like to add: stop engaging, and especially quoting, certain obvious assholes.

[Meadow Skipper]

…New Mexico was picked for the Atomic Trinity Site - it’s a gypsum desert there…

I did not know that. Thx.

…Believe it or not - all things burn.

Edit; Made post more concise and definitive.

Edit 2; The home’s building method has little to do with why it ultimately survived and is entirely dependent on chance that the fire didn’t evidently surround it and encroach. A greater building method ONLY buys time in natural disaster situations; from what I’ve been exposed too. Enough exposure to special conditions over a prolonged time will compromise any structure.

Quoted for truth.

[bodywhomper]

Does that home have a concrete exterior? It’s hard to tell from the photos. I also see xeriscaping and possible concrete fencing.

Regarding hazard mitigation. Some say that it should start at the structure and work outwards. Getting through environmental compliance, politics, and competitive funding eligibility is a huge ordeal, especially for larger fuels reduction projects. After the Camp Fire (Paradise, CA), Gov Newsome threw a bunch of money to Calfire to conduct high priority fuels reduction and exempted all state-level environmental compliance and permitting. That for boots on the ground very quickly. A long standing issue with fuels reduction projects and programs is maintenance; ie maintaining the reduced fuels loads. It’s a huge chunk of continual funding to successfully implement a long term maintenance program.

[AK47bp]

If a Pineapple Express rolls in next the mudslides will be the next calamity.


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[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

The natural beauty of California is created by what we perceive as destructive forces.

[ghosthop]

Sorry about the zuckerberg link, Aaron Huey’s photos from the Mandeville line two nights ago for those unfamiliar with the terrain.

https://www.instagram.com/argonautph...v/?img_index=2

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

I loved working with the CDC crews. Those guys are animals and could cut line through the the steepest and thickest shit imaginable and love every second of it.

Now watch that bitch Kim K kill the program and put those guys back to making street signs.

[zion zig zag]

I’ve gotten a job offer from every fire job I’ve ever applied for, CA included. As a honky. Maybe you’re just a shitty candidate?

Bwah.

[Meadow Skipper]

Sorry about the zuckerberg link, Aaron Huey’s photos from the Mandeville line two nights ago for those unfamiliar with the terrain.

https://www.instagram.com/argonautph...v/?img_index=2

Kind of steep…and fuel loaded.

[Meadow Skipper]

I loved working with the CDC crews. Those guys are animals and could cut line through the the steepest and thickest shit imaginable and love every second of it.

So, this one time when I was on a SoCal FS helishot crew, we’d spent the whole day cutting line on a biggish chaparral fire and we were standing along the line as it got dark and a CDC crew filed past to relieve us for the night shift. It was looking like a crappy all night mop-up shift for the con crew. This one guy moaned really loudly “I sure wish I hadn’t killed all those people.” Our crew applauded. It was a hell of lot funnier than them begging for weed.

[GBB]

Well, as far as where, what do you want to protect? Buildings? Towns? Habitat for rare species? Watersheds? ‘Viewsheds?’ Even airsheds (Rx burns can release less smoke than wildfires or have it during favorable dispersion conditions)? Important industry/infrastructure (logging/grazing/mining etc.)? Categories like that tend to get prioritized, depending on local needs and/or wants.

The best alternative to Rx Fire also depends on things like the local situation and conditions and economics. Manual thinning of trees and vegetation might be appropriate, and mechanical removal means like with heavy machinery might be appropriate and workable. Grazing livestock, like goats, might work depending on the vegetation and availability. And projects to do things like replacing highly flammable or undesirable vegetation (often invasive, annual species or conifers) with less flammable things like perennial plants and hardwoods.

Sorry for the broad brush answer, but yeah, “it depends.”

One of our recent presidents has suggested raking , I don’t know, maybe

I appreciate the response. Answering the "what do you want to protect?" is an important nuance. Starting with buildings and towns would seem to be a logical place to start given the amount of public attention received. Your average American doesn't seem to care if thousands of Sierra Pacific land goes up in flames.

How effective would wide scale vegetation replacement be? It sounds like an expensive and intensive proposition.

[BCMtnHound]

How effective would wide scale vegetation replacement be? It sounds like an expensive and intensive proposition.

To provide reference in a Canadian currency to replant in forestry, cost of seed and to grow in a nursery is about $0.50/seedling, then to plant on easy ground is around another $0.50. Full conifer stocking usually takes about 1600 seedlings/ha (640/acre). Add in incidentals and overhead and it’s about $1800/ha ($720/acre).

And that’s for a mature tree planting industry planting 10’s of millions of trees annually. If you are thinking non-commercial plants and ecological restoration using only native species, you can likely triple that cost. The industry here is also not mature and nursery capacity isn’t there, that needs to be built up right from seed collection to growing capacity. And the effectiveness of the treatment is highly dependant on weather while the plants become established. Another bad drought year, and you could easily lose your entire investment. These intense firestorms are very challenging to recover from, with the ecological clock essential being fully reset, needing to rebuild the ecosystem from the soil on up. Far greater value in building/investing resiliency into the system, if that is even feasible in an wildland-urban interface.

[Meadow Skipper]

I appreciate the response. Answering the "what do you want to protect?" is an important nuance. Starting with buildings and towns would seem to be a logical place to start given the amount of public attention received.

It would seem like that, but if there hasn’t been a problem fire close by within the last couple years people in the area can often start to get really unhappy about thinning/clearing, Rx fire nearby, and/or smoke impacts.

Your average American doesn't seem to care if thousands of Sierra Pacific land goes up in flames.

Yep, until it affects their watershed (flooding, ruining reservoirs etc.), or their vacation because of smoke and closures. But that happens after the fire.

How effective would wide scale vegetation replacement be? It sounds like an expensive and intensive proposition.

It can be very, very effective, and yeah, it tends to be very, very expensive and intensive. But where it’s appropriate I think it’s one of the most effective processes. But it isn’t easy.

Edit: what BCMtnHound said.

[priapism]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsin...are&utm_term=1
I’d like to add: stop engaging, and especially quoting, certain obvious assholes.

Good stuff, thanks

Just watched a recording of a streamer chatting with some CDC crews at their camp. A lot of guys grateful for the opportunity to do stuff and have time reduced. Seems like one of only a few instances of rehabilitation efforts in a prison system that is otherwise very punitive

[Boomer28]

Good discussion points here.

All due respect I think a lot of folks don't understand a) how big these hilly areas are and b) how steep/shitty they are to navigate on foot. Also it's not like they are mature forest with shit tons of debris on the forest floor that can be "vacuumed" up. It's grass, native bushes and things of that nature that grow super fast when it's wet and they die off when it doesn't rain for months. Even the shit that is "alive" has a high degree of "thatch" structure that makes it vulnerable to fire. There are exceptions but I've hiked/biked these hills for years and they are a fucking bear when they are not on fire in a category 2 hurricane.

This shit will continue to burn and it's the arrogance of man that we think we are going to dominate nature if we choose to live in/nearby. My personal opinion is to focus on fire proof/resistant building code, and beefing up infrastructure (subterranean power lines). I'd argue with 20/20 hindsight allowing building in some of these canyon/hillside areas was a fucking mistake. It looks flash and sexy but the exact same thing could happen in Bel Air, BH, or the HW hills and probably will.

[byates1]

Makes living in tents by the beach look wicked smart all of a sudden