Wildfire ‘24

[Meadow Skipper]

Wow, a Joe Rogan prediction that everyone knows already and has already happened before.

Yep, and he looks so amazed. Sad thing is he doesn’t really stand out from most people with his ignorance.

[Meadow Skipper]

Here, learn something. https://www.lafire.com/famous_fires/...gaIncident.htm

Really great article/report. Probably a little too dense and down in the weeds for most folks, but I really appreciate it. Thanks for posting it.

[Boomer28]

Is the high end property really worth anything? It's uninsurable, taxed to the tits. Who will rebuild and can that area command that premium?

Seems like a huge reality check on ultra wealthy enclaves?

CA has very low property tax rates compared to pretty much every other coastal state. Properties also aren't re-assessed unless there is sale.

[skaredshtles]

CA has very low property tax rates compared to pretty much every other coastal state.

Yeah... but that wouldn't fit with certain people's narrative.

[byates1]

Houses don't sell ever.

[bodywhomper]

Regarding fuels reduction: I’ve helped with planning for several along the toe the LA and San Gab mtns. Including with broadcast and pile burn techniques as part of the rx for fuels reduction, very close to the built-out suburbs. Not sure if anybody read the dr kolden Bluesky post I put upthread. In part of it, she stated that the Santa Monica mtns used to be mainly grassland and not woody veg.


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[Cono Este]

Truly staggering the amount structures lost. Never knew the FD had bulldozers, makes sense, but off the hook.

[Cono Este]

Heard a local chief say how water pressure was lost because of all the sprinkler systems free flowing after their structures burned down.

That LAFD chief deserves a lot of credit for how she handled herself, told the truth, and represented her fire fighters in that interview where she says the city let her Down. Watch the whole thing.

[wendigo]

Found this 2018 article interesting
https://longreads.com/2018/12/04/the...g-malibu-burn/

[frorider]

Regarding fuels reduction: I’ve helped with planning for several along the toe the LA and San Gab mtns. Including with broadcast and pile burn techniques as part of the rx for fuels reduction, very close to the built-out suburbs. Not sure if anybody read the dr kolden Bluesky post I put upthread. In part of it, she stated that the Santa Monica mtns used to be mainly grassland and not woody veg.


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Yup I read your bluesky post, actually passed it on to some friends

[evdog]

Fires aren't the only carnage this week. With the high winds there have been tons of trucks blown over on freeways. I saw this a couple years ago during a storm on I-8 east of SD, dozens of semi's tipped over by high winds. Then you drop down to the desert by El Centro and see hundreds of them lined up at rest areas and exits waiting for the winds to let up - the smart ones.

https://www.instagram.com/p/DEm-ON5pa3o/

[evdog]

Some context on the magnitude of damage....

Palisade fire is up to 21,600 acres as of tonite, mostly urban area.



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[evdog]

And this....



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[NBABUCKS1]

I guess to make those comparisons how many acres of structures burned?

millions of acres burn each year in our national forests but it's not really a proper comparison in this context.

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

I mean, the more of the Santa Monicas that burns, it's for the better, they just need to stop it at the houses.

[ötzi]

Is there much evidence of fire-resistant
construction techniques and defensible space working on individual homes in the burned areas?

[John_B]

I haven't seen much mention of CALFire vs LA County Fire Dept. Were these fires entirely in LACFD jurisdiction? What's the breakdown on what CALFire does vs county depts?

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

Is there much evidence of fire-resistant
construction techniques and defensible space working on individual homes in the burned areas?

Sure! We would triage a house without a defensible space. "Sorry, you were warned, hope you have good insurance..." and wave bye-bye.

[ötzi]

Well I kinda meant, after the fires went through are there houses still standing because the way they were built and/or how their landscapes were prepared? Or were the fires just too much for any preparations to have worked. I’ve scanned some photos and it seems like it’s every house in those areas.

[ghosthop]

Is there much evidence of fire-resistant
construction techniques and defensible space working on individual homes in the burned areas?

Two things I have read this week.

Somewhere in the bowels of the LA Reddit threads there is a photo of a new construction net-zero home that survived intact on a block that was otherwise leveled. Information wasn’t provided if it survived because of insulation or the design also considered fire safety.

Getty Villa has been hardened and the grounds were designed with defensible space in mind. The structure is intact when the grounds burned. I would imagine there was also a serious push from FF to protect the building.

[MultiVerse]

New construction built to more modern codes survives better than old construction. In the 2018 Camp Fire, "Only 11% of single-family homes built in or before 1996 survived, compared with 40% for homes built after 1996."

https://ucanr.edu/blogs/blogcore/pos...?postnum=50562

One thing you notice is fireplaces are often the only structural element that remains so that gives an idea of how a building would need to be built to remain standing under the most intense heat.

Although, even if a structure survives its contents would be destroyed by heat anyway unless it was massively thermally insulted making affordability a problem. Cost is why California’s strictest fire codes are only mandated for new construction in high-risk areas, which, is about 25-percent of residential structures in California

[bodywhomper]

I’ve seen some photos and videos of apparently intact homes surrounded by burned out, leveled neighborhoods in Palisades. Presumably these were homes that were compliant with new building codes and got lucky. The issue of things igniting in your house due to the heat seems hard to mitigate.


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[The SnowShow]

Yeah, houses would need to be dark, heavy fortresses of masonry and stone. Not exactly what you want in a climate that allows for spaces to be open to nature year round, with lots of glass and sliding walls blurring the line between inside and out.

[PB]

Underground, my 'Peeps, underground.

#troglodytelife

[frorider]

https://www.nps.gov/samo/learn/manag...ribedfires.htm

Why this park does not use prescribed fire

In the last forty years fire managers have promoted the idea that prescribed fire is necessary to protect ecosystems and communities by restoring fire's natural role in the environment to thin forest stands and to reduce hazardous fuels. This is true for western forests where the natural fire regime was frequent, low intensity surface fires started by lightning, and for many other ecosystems like southern longleaf pine forests, Florida palmetto scrub, and the Great Plains tall grass prairies. However, it is not true for the shrubland dominated ecosystems of southern California and the Santa Monica Mountains.

….

Prescribed burning is not effective in limiting the spread of wildfires under the conditions that burn the largest amount of land and cause the most home losses. Native shrublands are being burned too frequently because of human ignited wildfires. Prescribed fire does not fulfill any identified ecological need in chaparral or coastal sage scrub and would increase the probability of a damaging short fire interval following a prescribed burn. The most effective fire management strategies to protect local communities and the native ecosystem in the SMMNRA are to:

PREVENT WILDFIRES, especially during severe weather conditions.
Plan and implement effective SUPPRESSION strategies during severe weather conditions.
Create defensible space from the house-out.