PARK CITY (and all) SKI PATROLLERS DESERVE MORE.

[Woodsy]

Balancing customers, employees and shareholders is pretty critical to long term success. Vail is way out of wack. Their stock is off 5% today

Hotels & resort management and sales since 94 across America.

This is spot on

[stuckathuntermtn]

It's long overdue that stock buybacks be made illegal again.

[Bunion 2020]

The skier lying on the snow was clearly in pain when Nathan Gillman came across him while snowboarding on the Canyons Village side of Park City Mountain earlier this week.

The skier believed he’d torn a ligament in his knee and didn’t think he could make it back to the base without a sled. Gillman, 34, called ski patrol, and promised the man he’d stay with him until help arrived.

But the minutes ticked by, and no one came. After 20 minutes, Gillman said, a patroller finally arrived. Alone. And without a sled.


A few days later, Gillman, of New Jersey, said he had to stand guard again over another injured skier near the base of the Bonanza Express on the Mountain Village side. A patroller had arrived, but he was working alone, Gillman said.

In between the incidents, Gillman had waited in lift lines for up to an hour and watched hundreds of skiers and snowboarders duck under a boundary rope in search of fresh powder and fewer crowds. It felt like the Wild West.

“They have,” Gillman said, “lost all control of the mountain.”

Park City Mountain has been beleaguered by a ski patrol strike, a warm and dry early season and a slew of social media posts over the holiday periods laying bare situations just like the ones Gillman witnessed. Guests have been feeling the pain on the slopes and in the lift lines for weeks. Now Park City Mountain’s parent company, Vail Resorts (MTN), and its investors are feeling it in their portfolio. On Thursday, Vail Resorts’ stock value plummeted 6.5% on the New York Stock Exchange. That’s roughly the equivalent of a drop of more than $400 million in market value.

Bill Rock, the president of Vail Resorts’ mountain division, acknowledged to The Salt Lake Tribune on Thursday that the ski experience Park City Mountain is currently offering isn’t up to snuff.

“I know,” he said, “we haven’t been able to deliver the world class experience we mean to deliver at Park City Mountain over the past few days.”

Rock said the strike isn’t the only factor at play. Lack of natural snow also played a part. As of Christmas Eve, meteorologists estimated snowpack was roughly 50-70% of what it would be in a normal year around Park City. The Wasatch Back finally gained almost two feet of snow this week around the New Year’s holiday, but it came with strong winds that the resort said caused power outages.

Still, Park City Mountain is opening whatever terrain it safely can with the personnel it has, Rock said. A spokesperson previously told The Tribune that means focusing mostly on beginner and intermediate areas. The mountain has also, Rock said, clearly communicated with guests about which runs and lifts are open so that skiers and snowboarders can make informed decisions about their day. Per its website, Park City Mountain will fully refund any unused lift tickets if they are turned in before 5 p.m. on the last day of a ski trip.

However, refunds are not available in most circumstances on Epic Day Passes nor Epic season passes. And, because they can be purchased early in the season at significant discounts compared to Park City Mountain’s $328 walk-up ticket price, they are what most skiers and snowboarders use to access the resort. The Colorado Sun reported 75% of visitors to Vail Resorts’ 43 ski areas this year will be using a pass product.

Friday marks a week since Park City’s ski patrol union went on strike. After nine months of negotiations — including a several-month stretch during the summer in which the union said Vail Resorts did not respond to its offers — the two sides have reached a tentative agreement on 24 of 27 contract terms. The sticking points include the union’s demands to raise starting wages from $21 to $23 per hour, to compensate patrollers for experience and skills and to offer an improved benefits package that includes better parental leave and healthcare stipends during the ski season.

Mediator-led contract negotiations were held Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday this week. Union business manager Margaux Klingensmith said the next scheduled meeting is Monday, though the two parties may continue to exchange proposals over the weekend.

As a bandage for the loss of approximately 200 patrollers during the peak holiday season, Park City Mountain brought in a “Patrol Support Team.” Estimated to number between 30-35, they include, according to the resort’s website, experienced patrollers from Park City Mountain and “our other mountain resorts.” The Vail (Colo.) Daily reported Vail Mountain’s ski patrol director and senior manager of health and safety are among the replacements. Other management-level patrollers came from Breckenridge, another Vail Resorts property in Colorado, according to the Denver Post.

On Tuesday, ski patrol unions from Park City, Breckenridge, Keystone and Crested Butte sent a letter to Vail Resorts CEO Kirsten Lynch spelling out what they believe are the detrimental effects to workers and guests of deploying the Patrol Support Team.

“(Y)ou caused irreparable harm to both your patrol labor force and patrol management across all affected resorts,” the letter said.

With fewer patrollers to clear obstacles and assist with avalanche control — especially when the Utah Avalanche Center deemed the risk high in the Wasatch Mountains over the holidays — Park City Mountain has been forced to conserve its resources. Nearly all the lifts and terrain out of Canyons Village was closed Monday and again Thursday morning. A video purportedly shot Dec. 30 and posted on Instagram by @alt_patrol_backup shows a line for the Red Pine Gondola stretching beyond the bars and shops and almost to the street. And several people, including Gillman, have reported slow ski patrol response times.

Rock said Vail Resorts is negotiating in good faith. So, if lift lines and response times are infuriatingly long, he indicated guests need look no further than the picket lines forming daily just outside the resort for the explanation.

“It’s disappointing that the union walked out on productive conversations and instead took drastic action during the holidays,” Rock said, “given that we had reached agreements on a vast majority of the contract points that they opened (with).”

Nik Smith, the vice president of the Park City patrollers union, sees it differently. The union has filed several complaints with the National Labor Relations Board accusing Vail Resorts of unfair labor practices and negotiating in bad faith. He said in a statement issued Wednesday by the union that Vail Resorts has continually failed to make an adequate counteroffer.

“Given the major impacts our work stoppage has had on resort operations,” Smith said, “we are surprised the company’s counter proposal is still far from what we feel is acceptable.”

As of Friday morning, the union had raised more than $190,000 for its strike relief fund.

Park City Mountain has the most lift-served terrain of any ski area in the country. Yet even its expansive borders haven’t been able to contain the fallout from the strife between its owner and its ski patrol. Park City’s economy relies heavily on the tourism generated by its two major ski resorts, and the conflict has made the whole town uneasy.

“We’ve got a little more of an unnerving feel in town,” said Cole Sports Manager Jace Peck. “Maybe more than we have over the last couple of years with the same variables.”

The two parties previously wrangled for more than a year before coming to terms on a contract in 2022. Union membership also authorized a strike during those negotiations but never walked out.

(Francisco Kjolseth | The Salt Lake Tribune) Park City ski patrollers officially go on strike, citing unfair labor practices and marking the latest chapter in the union’s negotiations with Park City Mountain and its owner, Vail Resorts, on Friday, Dec. 27, 2024.

Cole Sports, an outdoor gear rental and retail shop, has a store inside the Mountain Village as well as near its entrance. When the experience on the mountain irritates skiers and snowboarders, Peck said it trickles down to the stores.

“We’re here to sell fun,” he said, “and we feel like fun is being cut off at the knees.”

Most local retailers, Peck believes, don’t hold the patrollers liable for the public relations stench that’s hovering over Park City Mountain. Rather, he said, the widely held perception is that resort operators are prioritizing profit over people to the consternation of both workers and guests.

“Why change,” he asked, “when the money is rolling at an incredible clip?”

Vail Resorts netted $230.4 million in profit during the 2024 fiscal year that ended in September. That was down some from $268.1 million in 2023. Earlier this year the company announced it planned to cut back its workforce, saving it an estimated $100 million.

Rock, the Vail Resorts executive, said he wants Park City to live up to skiers’ expectations.

“I do care about the guest experience,” he said. “… And I also know that (the experience they’re getting is) not what a lot of folks expect when they come here.”

• Correction: Jan. 3, 2025, 4:15 p.m. >> The ski patrol union is seeking improved benefits but not year-round benefits, as was stated in a previous version of this article.

.

[Harry]

That's the thing Reg from CT, I don't know you.
Dozens of others here in this thread have drank, skied, stayed, or hung out with me. The ones that haven't I know a bit from their posts here over the years.

(yadda, yadda, yadda…)

Reg from CT is clocked by me as a dbag with a Roley and a Yacht club burgie polo that moves other people's money around and sees people/ labor as commodities.

I can vouch for RegCT. He was a legit pro patroller at Big Sky during the years I lived there.

I never skied with him, or knew him on a personal level, but I interacted with him numerous times face-to-face in my professional capacity. Very nice guy. My profession required me to know the exact spelling of every person’s name that lived in town, and I can verify that his user name is a play on his real name/initials.

He lived in the same condo complex as MiCol. One time those two were parked next to each other and I asked MiCol “hey, did you know this guy is a maggot?”

In fact, in the Montana thread if you go back 5-6 years ago, there was a visiting maggot who got badly injured (broken femur, I think ?) way up in the gnar requiring a high angle rescue. The maggot posted a thank you to the patrollers involved, and said in his post, “you know, I think one of the patrollers was a maggot”. Sure enough, RegCT piped up that it was him.

I’m not getting involved in your guys pie fight other than to say “Fuck Vail”, but RegCT is absolutely legit and I value his input. (that said, I don’t necessarily agree with him on this particular topic)

[TBS]

The gofundme for patroller living expenses during the strike is now over $200k and climbing fast to their $250k goal. A sign that public opinion in on the patroller’ side here.

MTN now has to figure out how to gracefully exit from this debacle. Guessing the COO and the GM of Park City are gonna be sacrificed.

[Kevo]

The gofundme for patroller living expenses during the strike is now over $200k and climbing fast to their $250k goal. A sign that public opinion in on the patroller’ side here.

MTN now has to figure out how to gracefully exit from this debacle. Guessing the COO and the GM of Park City are gonna be sacrificed.

I’m all for sacrificing management, but I also find it funny because the COO and GM of park city are just mid level ops managers who are just messengers delivering information from the Vail Resorts exec team and the board to the patrol union.

Even the CEO of VR is taking direction from Rob Katz.

[Harry]

The gofundme for patroller living expenses during the strike is now over $200k and climbing fast to their $250k goal. A sign that public opinion in on the patroller’ side here.

MTN now has to figure out how to gracefully exit from this debacle. Guessing the COO and the GM of Park City are gonna be sacrificed.

Has the link for that been posted in this thread ? I would like to contribute.

[Bunion 2020]

https://www.gofundme.com/f/strike-fu...urce=copy_link

[new yabyum]

Has the link for that been posted in this thread ? I would like to contribute.

I would too, Their CWA local is the same one I was a member with in my telco days, that and my 18 years as a voly at PCMR. Reasons enough to kick in.

[TBS]

I’m all for sacrificing management, but I also find it funny because the COO and GM of park city are just mid level ops managers who are just messengers delivering information from the Vail Resorts exec team and the board to the patrol union.

Even the CEO of VR is taking direction from Rob Katz.

That’s the way the world works. The princes do not suffer for their mistakes, only the bureaucrats and serfs.

[old goat]

Re the long article posted above--IME of needing a sled twice, a patroller without a sled showed up first both times. There's plenty of other good reasons to dump on Vail.

The question is, who is paying for the strike now and who will pay if the patrollers make significant gains.
A) The shareholders
B) The executives
C) The customers

I'll give you all 3 guesses and tell you it's not A or B. Good luck.

[anotherVTskibum]

Re the long article posted above--IME of needing a sled twice, a patroller without a sled showed up first both times. There's plenty of other good reasons to dump on Vail.

The question is, who is paying for the strike now and who will pay if the patrollers make significant gains.
A) The shareholders
B) The executives
C) The customers

I'll give you all 3 guesses and tell you it's not A or B. Good luck.

To the first point, I think it has been suggested that the first responders aren't necessarily actually patrollers but are non-certified or at least not certified in Utah to provide care, and instead they are locating and triaging.

Honestly, depending on the patrol and staffing levels, that's not a particularly uncommon tactic, albeit usually done by other patrollers who can possibly begin stabilizing someone after calling for the needed help with a good location (customer-reported calls often aren't what and where the initial report suggests).

To the second, you left out "4. Other, non-union staff" which is also a distinct possibility. Granted, I'm sure if Vail thought they could pay any given role less, they already would be doing so.

[Bunion 2020]

FWIW, when I patrolled at PCMR and Dinosaurs roamed the earth the PCSP SOP was to send a patroller to every accident without a sled. When they got on scene they called for what they needed including a sled.

Reality is, if we sent a sled to every reported 10-50 we would have run out of sleds.

ETA:
And at that time we were running Sun Valley Tod-bogs and to get them back up the mountain when they were used meant loading a 75 lb sled (or 5) into a Gondola cage and sending them up the 24 minute Gondola ride. Logistically it was a nightmare. But those sleds were way more fun to drive than a Cascade. Lincoln Continental VS an F-150. They would travel really fast but they sucked in the bumps on Thaynes.

And it was a learning curve when I got to Big Sky as the BSSP always responded to 10-50s with a sled and you normally worked calls solo unless there was trauma or you needed extra hands (backboard etc).
In cases of a trauma report we would send a patroller as a Bullet, maybe with a Trauma pack, maybe not.

Area SOPs vary.

[Meadow Skipper]

FWIW, when I patrolled at PCMR and Dinosaurs roamed the earth the PCSP SOP was to send a patroller to every accident without a sled. When they got on scene they called for what they needed including a sled.

Reality is, if we sent a sled to every reported 10-50 we would have run out of sleds.

This.

Also, reports of on-slope injuries are often pretty vague when they get to the patrol, so a single patroller will go assess the incident and call in a report with an equipment request. By far, a sled isn’t needed for the majority of reports.

Also, often the first respondent might not be near a sled to bring - they were just on-hill nearest to the report.

Edit: though 20 minutes to respond to an injury does seem like a long time, but I wasn’t there so I’m kind of talking out my ass on that point.

[RegCT]

I can vouch for RegCT. He was a legit pro patroller at Big Sky during the years I lived there.

I never skied with him, or knew him on a personal level, but I interacted with him numerous times face-to-face in my professional capacity. Very nice guy. My profession required me to know the exact spelling of every person’s name that lived in town, and I can verify that his user name is a play on his real name/initials.

He lived in the same condo complex as MiCol. One time those two were parked next to each other and I asked MiCol “hey, did you know this guy is a maggot?”

In fact, in the Montana thread if you go back 5-6 years ago, there was a visiting maggot who got badly injured (broken femur, I think ?) way up in the gnar requiring a high angle rescue. The maggot posted a thank you to the patrollers involved, and said in his post, “you know, I think one of the patrollers was a maggot”. Sure enough, RegCT piped up that it was him.

I’m not getting involved in your guys pie fight other than to say “Fuck Vail”, but RegCT is absolutely legit and I value his input. (that said, I don’t necessarily agree with him on this particular topic)

Appreciate it Harry. The new operation in Big Sky is fubar. Come back.

Regarding any beef. I'd rather see the thread stay on topic. DM's are wide open.

Regarding PC. I have long since given up on trying to change peoples minds on issues, especially this one. The work is legit, its skilled labor, requires continuing education, and can involve high risk. Anyone arguing otherwise has it wrong. Experienced professional patrollers deserve at the very least, a livable wage and some sort of health insurance. My issues with the trend of union representation in the industry, are the industry disassociated suits representing them. The whole process, and the broader issue it itself is already so contentious and the copy/paste manipulative tactics these outside organizations use literally destroy relationships that were forged by the common ground they claim to embrace rebranded as "solidarity"
(It's also my opinion that the NLRA is criminally overdue for reform)

For example, encouraging guests not to eat or stay at on hill establishments. What about the service industry workers who rely on their income and even tips? Or the broke ass lifty that is getting sent home because lift ops is overstaffed with 20% of the hill open? What are they getting out of this deal?

Like everyone here, I care about skiing and want the industry and the culture to thrive, I just think there are better ways to organize and water our own grass.

That is all.

[TheK12]

So PCMR finally updated their website to indicate that the Patrol Strike is impacting operations. Don't think I saw that there yesterday... or even this morning. Guessing that the threats of lawsuits and the hemorrhaging of brand reputation finally made them do it... Or did I just miss it before?

Of course the real solution is settling the strike but at the very least, they're starting to acknowledge that they're hurting... or at least covering themselves for potential additional class action suits?

[tang]

Vail has some time to recover before pass renewal season starts, but past experience is the best indicator of future performance and I’m guessing they keep shooting themselves in both feet. This is a PR disaster.
Hope the gofundme is keeping the trollers close to whole in the meantime.
Question - is vail still a public company in 3 years? I’d bet no.

[Trackhead]

Maybe in addition to the strike skiers should boycott $220-300+ per day lift tickets that have drastically outmatched inflation.

The entire corporate ski industry has turned into a country club golf atmosphere.

[TBS]

A question for the PCMR locals who have been around before and after Powdr fucked up their lease renewal…

Mt Bachelor aka Mt Brokenchair is my home hill. Powdr has it up for sale. Vail and Alterra are the two obvious suitors.

I have heard 3rd hand that PCMR has been (up to now) run much better under Vail than under Powdr.

Anybody care to opine?

I sorta think I’d rather be Ikonic than Epic (for the broader array of resorts) but Mt Brokenchair is so fucked up that maybe even Vail would be better?

[/digression]
TIA

[anotherVTskibum]

I don't think this has been posted here yet (apologies if it's a repeat)--NYTimes article on the strike, gift link:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/04/t...smid=url-share

Comments were worth a read when I looked, Vail not looking good.

[Woodsy]

I can vouch for RegCT. He was a legit pro patroller at Big Sky during the years I lived there.

Any friend of Jono...

[byates1]

https://youtube.com/shorts/o78HdG-8J...VSdEsDJeONbVtx

[tang]

Best New York Times article comment… “Vail can’t even get corporate greed right”

[altacoup]

A question for the PCMR locals who have been around before and after Powdr fucked up their lease renewal…

Mt Bachelor aka Mt Brokenchair is my home hill. Powdr has it up for sale. Vail and Alterra are the two obvious suitors.

I have heard 3rd hand that PCMR has been (up to now) run much better under Vail than under Powdr.

Anybody care to opine?

I sorta think I’d rather be Ikonic than Epic (for the broader array of resorts) but Mt Brokenchair is so fucked up that maybe even Vail would be better?

[/digression]
TIA

From my understanding and word of month within the industry Alterra is much better than Vail. Alterra is much more inclined to leave existing management and emps in place. Which in the case of mt flatchelor sounds like it might not be ideal. However Vail is guaranteed to run a mountain according to their front range corporate bs and there’s zero chance of that being a positive development. Of all the towns in Oregon, Bend is completely unrecognizable to me compared to 20 years ago these days, it’s basically an outdoor magazine advertisement. Which must be highly enticing for either of the big 2. My guess is that Alterra buys it as there’s no real estate at the base of the mountain which is Vails number one priority

[NBABUCKS1]

Maybe in addition to the strike skiers should boycott $220-300+ per day lift tickets that have drastically outmatched inflation.

The entire corporate ski industry has turned into a country club golf atmosphere.

the only people skiing pcmr are people who booked vacations months ago or bought an epic pass months ago. No one is shelling out (maybe a few) for lift tickets and no one is bailing on non refundable flights, hotels and epic passes after they have planned this vacation for months.