The Atomic Ski Boot Thread

[GoldenBC]

Nevermind, found it earlier in the thread. I guess I had it backwards thinking the lower is softer because that would make a bigger difference in getting in. That's good for me i guess.

"Bonus info: the Ultra 130 S uses the same shell & cuff hard component as the RS, but a softer front portion of the cuff which makes step in & step out easier (one of the main complaints Ultra tends to get)."- onenerdykid

[iriponsnow]

What’s the difference between the Hawx ultra 130 RS and s? I thought it was the softer lower on the S but the website says it’s the cuff that is softer.

Bummed that the RS is sold out before even having a chance to order them.

RS cuff is stiffer; S just means it has all the adjustments. AFAIK

[ZomblibulaX]

Alright, Matt, let's talk shop:





This is the first iteration of a boa boot that actually interests me, any chance of seeing it on something in less than a 170 flex? Looks significantly lower-profile than other race prototypes (i.e. head) I've seen.

[onenerdykid]

Alright, Matt, let's talk shop:





This is the first iteration of a boa boot that actually interests me, any chance of seeing it on something in less than a 170 flex? Looks significantly lower-profile than other race prototypes (i.e. head) I've seen.

Not ready to talk shop yet, but I will say that it's not coming from BOA. This is our own development.

[FloridaSnow]

Alright, Matt, let's talk shop:





This is the first iteration of a boa boot that actually interests me, any chance of seeing it on something in less than a 170 flex? Looks significantly lower-profile than other race prototypes (i.e. head) I've seen.

it’s not boa. It’s their own proprietary design. So I don’t think you’ll be seeing it on regular boots since they’re invested in boa with they’re public offerings.

[ZomblibulaX]

Not ready to talk shop yet, but I will say that it's not coming from BOA. This is our own development.

Looks sharp, and "not coming from boa" is exactly what I wanted to hear.

[carlh]

Put on the redster cs, offer it in a 140 with stock dual compound lifters and take my money.

[Afg]

Looks like Evo has the Gnar bar on sale right now.

[GoldenBC]

Just putting it out in the universe... man would I (and many customers) kill for a Hawx Ultra and XTD in a thick, uniform plastic construction that is a "true" 130 that doesn't bellow the lower and allows for easier traditional punching and grinding and skis like a dream. I would be able to sell it to more people than the current version.

[SnowMachine]

Just putting it out in the universe... man would I (and many customers) kill for a Hawx Ultra and XTD in a thick, uniform plastic construction that is a "true" 130 that doesn't bellow the lower and allows for easier traditional punching and grinding and skis like a dream. I would be able to sell it to more people than the current version.

RS GW?

Can confirm that the Hawx Ultra XTD doesn't hold up to skiing hard everyday. Probably a wicked good boot for 80% of skiers. Mine are getting real soft and squeaky. The cuff pivot hole is ovalized and the Skywalk sole is finished without an easy fix. BOA is still good though!! ~70 days. They still ski well enough.

I'm about to start my work season. I have to decide which boots I'll be in. The RS is looking strong or just back into my Lange RX with Zips. They're 100+ days in and going strong. The liners need some goo and the heel soles need to be replaced. Easy stuff.

The walk mode boots are a compromise. I had the same issues with my XT3 a few years back. Those had replaceable heel soles (huge plus), but the cuff pivot wore out on those, too. I absolutely hated the way the flex hit a wall in those.

[GoldenBC]

RS GW?

Can confirm that the Hawx Ultra XTD doesn't hold up to skiing hard everyday. Probably a wicked good boot for 80% of skiers. Mine are getting real soft and squeaky. The cuff pivot hole is ovalized and the Skywalk sole is finished without an easy fix. BOA is still good though!! ~70 days. They still ski well enough.

I'm about to start my work season. I have to decide which boots I'll be in. The RS is looking strong or just back into my Lange RX with Zips. They're 100+ days in and going strong. The liners need some goo and the heel soles need to be replaced. Easy stuff.

The walk mode boots are a compromise. I had the same issues with my XT3 a few years back. Those had replaceable heel soles (huge plus), but the cuff pivot wore out on those, too. I absolutely hated the way the flex hit a wall in those.

The RS is considerably softer than other boots in it's class though. It's one of my favourite boots to sell, but it's a shame when the best fitting last for the masses, that is aimed at a high end skier, folds in half when a strong adult gets in it. The worst part, is that when it overflexes, it destroys heels and can ruin seasons.

Yes, Atomic has tight heel cups, but this wouldn't be an issue if it was thicker, uniform plastic around the back of the boot. Feel inside the shell and notice the insane ridge on the top of the heel cup. I would wager that this shape isn't in the mold and it is because of the different shrinkage rates of the thin plastic and the thick ridges. Because of the thin plastic, you can't grind, which would be a real easy solution. Try punching there and it's not awesome either. The heating differences of the thin and thick plastics complicate things. Put a punch on it... the entire back deforms, negative punches are huge, the different thicknesses accept the punch differently, etc. I haven't found a heat mold to be sufficient for big spurs either. This is all in the RS. Agressive skiers that need a tight fitting ankle are drawn to the XTD for a touring boot but then the heel issues are a game ender, and they wonder why a 1200g Zero G flexes stiffer.

And then there is the paper thin cuffs.

The Ultra is my favourite boot to sell and to put on my own feet. It's the only boot with a tight throat/ankle and wide forefoot. It outsells all other boots in our shop by a mile. But it has critical issues, all to save some weight. Which no one cares about.

I look forward to the next version with the build of the Prime. That shell is remarkably stiffer than the Ultra and has much more uniform use of plastics. It still needs to be thicker than that though.

[herrgard]

How's the heel situation on the cs 130?

[carlh]

I have 130 ultra s before they made the s softer and added the rs. I can fold them in the right conditions, zipfits helped but I will be going to redsters or similar for my next boot. Hoping atomic drops a new heavy boot with the hawx or cs last, dual boas and replaceable soles.

RS GW?

Can confirm that the Hawx Ultra XTD doesn't hold up to skiing hard everyday. Probably a wicked good boot for 80% of skiers. Mine are getting real soft and squeaky. The cuff pivot hole is ovalized and the Skywalk sole is finished without an easy fix. BOA is still good though!! ~70 days. They still ski well enough.

I'm about to start my work season. I have to decide which boots I'll be in. The RS is looking strong or just back into my Lange RX with Zips. They're 100+ days in and going strong. The liners need some goo and the heel soles need to be replaced. Easy stuff.

The walk mode boots are a compromise. I had the same issues with my XT3 a few years back. Those had replaceable heel soles (huge plus), but the cuff pivot wore out on those, too. I absolutely hated the way the flex hit a wall in those.

[oetk2]

How's the heel situation on the cs 130?

I haven't had any heel pinch on my cs130 compared to my old ultra 120s. But I don't think I have (or ever will) overflexed the cs130.

[JaytaeMoney]

Need new liners for my Atomic Hawx Ultra 130 S purchased new in January of 2022. Any idea when they will be back in stock on the Atomic website (or alternate source)? I like the way the stock liner skis so not looking to go the Intuition or other after market route if I can find the OEM liner.

[MTslackcountry]

How's the heel situation on the cs 130?

CS 130 heel causes me no problems to my bone spurs. Plastic is thick. Grinding shouldnt be an issue

[gregL]

I haven't had any heel pinch on my cs130 compared to my old ultra 120s. But I don't think I have (or ever will) overflexed the cs130.

I never had any heel issues in 3+ years of skiing Redster CS 130 Pros, but have punched all of my Hawx Ultra boots at the upper curve of the calcaneus. It works OK with the alpine models, not so much with the XTD's.

The nominal 130 flex in the Redster CS is plenty of boot for me, but the 2460 gram weight (with custom footbed and Professional liner) and a couple horrific slips in the parking lot are part of the price. I could never find the dual compound lifters, so I used regular 5mm race lifters and hacked "texture" in them with a chisel for more grip, which helps some.

I'm another bootfitter who puts the majority of my customers in Hawx Ultras or S/Pro Alphas, but I'd sell way more of the Ultras if the heel issue wasn't there and there was a 140 flex option.

[GoldenBC]

@gregL, Matt mentioned that Euros won't buy 140 boots so I think the solution is make the 130 stiffer but still call it the 130. There is lots of margin to increase it's stiffness without making it too stiff for the average customer.

@MtSlackcountry , the 130 RS is not thick plastic. It is very thin and grinding the heel to any substantial degree is not feasible. I'd guess 2mm in the thin spots that butt up to the 7mm ish ribs.

@herrgard, the heel is exactly the same shape and thickness in the 130 RS and the 130 XTD. The RS just doesn't have the awkwardly placed walk mode that makes it nearly impossible to punch. Also the RS is stiffer so you get less of a death pinch from overflexing. However, for some people, just the shape alone is terrible for heel spurs. It is very low, agressive, and has a funny rib that runs along the top of the heel cup.

[onenerdykid]

The RS is considerably softer than other boots in it's class though. It's one of my favourite boots to sell, but it's a shame when the best fitting last for the masses, that is aimed at a high end skier, folds in half when a strong adult gets in it. The worst part, is that when it overflexes, it destroys heels and can ruin seasons.

Yes, Atomic has tight heel cups, but this wouldn't be an issue if it was thicker, uniform plastic around the back of the boot. Feel inside the shell and notice the insane ridge on the top of the heel cup. I would wager that this shape isn't in the mold and it is because of the different shrinkage rates of the thin plastic and the thick ridges. Because of the thin plastic, you can't grind, which would be a real easy solution. Try punching there and it's not awesome either. The heating differences of the thin and thick plastics complicate things. Put a punch on it... the entire back deforms, negative punches are huge, the different thicknesses accept the punch differently, etc. I haven't found a heat mold to be sufficient for big spurs either. This is all in the RS. Agressive skiers that need a tight fitting ankle are drawn to the XTD for a touring boot but then the heel issues are a game ender, and they wonder why a 1200g Zero G flexes stiffer.

And then there is the paper thin cuffs.

The Ultra is my favourite boot to sell and to put on my own feet. It's the only boot with a tight throat/ankle and wide forefoot. It outsells all other boots in our shop by a mile. But it has critical issues, all to save some weight. Which no one cares about.

I look forward to the next version with the build of the Prime. That shell is remarkably stiffer than the Ultra and has much more uniform use of plastics. It still needs to be thicker than that though.

Ooooh do I have a boot for you/this crowd next year

[SnowMachine]

Ooooh do I have a boot for you/this crowd next year

We're waiting!!! The Ultra's fit my feet so well. Almost no boot work required. The Platinum liners are amazing, also. I think the RS could work well for me just not sure I'm ready to buy another inbounds boot right now. I don't really mind being on the softer side of 130 if the boot has good suspension. The XTD is definitely on the soft side compared to fixed cuff 130's.

[herrgard]

Thanks for the comments on the cs130 heel. Thinking about picking up a used pair just to try them out. I can ski the ultra with only a liner bake to give some instep space, but the heel is killing me.

Ooooh do I have a boot for you/this crowd next year

Lol the tease. Please share more

[GoldenBC]

Ooooh do I have a boot for you/this crowd next year

I'm excited to see it. I'm only a hard ass because I care and know you read these forums. The Ultra is so close to perfect.

[Lord Thomas]

What's the forward lean on the Ultra and Redsters? Being pretty upright is one of reasons I've been in Lange's for the past 10+ years

[gregL]

What's the forward lean on the Ultra and Redsters? Being pretty upright is one of reasons I've been in Lange's for the past 10+ years

Ultra is 15 degrees out of the box and can be made 13 or 17. Redsters are 16 degrees out of the box and can be made 18 with the supplied shim. Langes are 12.

If you want a Hawx Ultra to be more upright, heat mold the shell @ 15 degrees with a shim (I use Lange or K2) in between the liner and shell and stand up straight while it cools. Then take the shim out and adjust the Power Shift plate to make it a nominal "13" - it will be very close to the Lange stance.

[carlh]

There goes next years ski budget sorry Marshall.

Ooooh do I have a boot for you/this crowd next year