Ukraine

[summit]

Putin fears democracy and the attached successful rules-based non-corrupt economic systems. These concepts would bring down his autocratic kleptocracy, and he needs a sphere of influence, puppet states, to economically victimize.

[Cisco Kid]

Sounds to me that Putin and Donald are on the same page there.

[MultiVerse]

Better without pre-annoucnment but still good: "Biden lifts ban on Ukraine using US arms to strike inside Russia. Ukraine plans to conduct its first long-range attacks in the coming days, the sources said, without revealing details due to operational security concerns." - Reuters


Also, F-16s are feasting on Russian missiles and drones

[banzai]

At some point Ukrainians as a nation will probably say enough is enough, stop fucking around, are you in or are you out?
Putin cant wait to project the narrative - told you so, they are just shills, you are better off with me. That's the only way he can rule Ukraine - if he disgusts the nation with the west. Its full support now or never imo.

[twat]

At some point Ukrainians as a nation will probably say enough is enough, stop fucking around, are you in or are you out?
Putin cant wait to project the narrative - told you so, they are just shills, you are better off with me. That's the only way he can rule Ukraine - if he disgusts the nation with the west. Its full support now or never imo.

Interesting point, never thought about that.

[Cono Este]

Having a hard time following the arguments here. I thought the threat of NATO expanding to Ukraine was the justification for Putin’s invasion, but now NATO membership is going to be a requirement for peace?

If Ukraine gives up, Crimea and the Donbas, etc. then yes, absolutely, fucking yes, or no deal. He gets what he wants. They get what they want. If not, expand roe’s, hit inside Russia etc.

What other guarantees are there? Handshake wont do it.

Probably not an option 2 yrs ago, but he’s bleeding bad now too

[gravitylover]

I wonder if the grifter would look more favorably on Ukraine if he was gifted some nice beachfront land for a mega golf resort...

[summit]

Better without pre-annoucnment but still good: "Biden lifts ban on Ukraine using US arms to strike inside Russia. Ukraine plans to conduct its first long-range attacks in the coming days, the sources said, without revealing details due to operational security concerns.

The French and UK have made the same announcements re their strike missiles... Storm Shadow can go 350mi.

I bet this decision is the direct result of the all out Russian attack on the Ukrainian electric generation and distribution in the last day. Russia was told "don't do that anymore" by the West. They did... so gloves off for Ukrainian retaliation.

They have 6 weeks at least to make Russia hurt.

However, maybe more: even Trump might understand that a maximum pressure campaign on Russia with threats of more would actually work more in favor of a negotiated settlement.

I'd love to see that bridge drop...

[Cono Este]

If there is a deal on the horizon, both sides will want as much land to bargain with. The way Russia is moving, not much choice.

[summit]

If there is a deal on the horizon, both sides will want as much land to bargain with. The way Russia is moving, not much choice.

You mean how Russia is not moving, right? They are barely making any progress, and at a high price. It has been this way for over a year.

[Toadman]

Dark Brandon just took the handcuffs off.

https://www.reuters.com/world/biden-...ia-2024-11-17/

[Cono Este]

A day late, dollar short.

[Bunion 2020]

Careful what you wish for. Can't start WWIII and risk missing the dance.

[jono]

Imagine the window of time when it was appropriate to take Ukraine's cuffs off, dances be damned. I bet it lasted about 1.2 Mooches, but I have no idea when it was.

[Cono Este]

You mean how Russia is not moving, right? They are barely making any progress, and at a high price. It has been this way for over a year.

Give me a break. Ukraine is about to buckle.

Simple negotiation 101, you want to start with as much as possible.

I could play the stupid politics, but Ukraine is worth more. Even if Biden is a lame duck, brain dead, ego maniac, before there is any real deal in the table, I see no choice for Ukraine but to fight as hard as they can the next two months.

Real sad our dysfunction, election, change of power is affecting the battle.

[summit]

More empty threats from Putin.

before there is any real deal in the table, I see no choice for Ukraine but to fight as hard as they can the next two months.

Real sad our dysfunction, election, change of power is affecting the battle.

We agree there, but I'm not sure Ukraine is about to buckle: I do not see that indication.

Even if Trump were to cut them off, and I don't know that is the plan, the EU could keep them going if they had the will. There are indications the EU is planning for that in the case where Trump was looking to cut support.

I think, hope, that there are communications going on behind the scenes between the transition team, the current admin, key European partners, and Ukraine.

[Cono Este]

Trump is never cutting them off.

And those pretending he will, are emboldening Putin right now.

But, no one gave him a chance the first time around, not from day 1, so I’d Imagine many in here would like to see Ukraine be over run just to spite trump.

Tds is that powerful.

[MultiVerse]

Ukraine is about to buckle.

Trump is never cutting them off.

And those pretending he will, are emboldening Putin right now.

The reason nobody trusts “the media” is because everyone has their own media outlets they trust and those outlets compete with the rest of “the media” telling you not to trust them — there’s nobody who is actually eschewing media and just directly perceiving reality.

That's Willy. He's presenting the narrative some people want to hear. Russia lost over a 11-thousand troops last week. The Soviets 'only' lost 15-thousand after a decade in Afghanistan. Russia is overpowering Ukrainian forces with sheer manpower and material advantages in anticipation of Trump's presidency. They can't keep this up indefinitely.

Because really it's the same story since Ukraine defeated Russia's failed blitzkrieg back in 2022. Ukraine is not about to buckle. The next months however are a critical phase in the war. Delays in Western weapons deliveries and delays in countermeasures addressing Russian jets carrying glide bombs are a major contributor to defenses crumbling around Pokrovsk & Vuhledar.

Like Bakhmut, Ukraine will probably lose Pokrovsk. The front line will shift to the west. But Ukraine will not fall as long as the country receives weapons & ammo. Ukraine will stabilize its defenses. Ukraine's problems, beside personnel, is ammo and air defense shortages. Ukraine can hold the front with Western support. That's the main thing they need to do ahead of the unknown trajectory of Trump's administration

[dan_pdx]

But, no one gave him a chance the first time around, not from day 1, so I’d Imagine many in here would like to see Ukraine be over run just to spite trump.

You think Trump would be upset if Putin rolled over Ukraine? I agree, TDS is real, but it doesn't mean what you appear to think it means.

[summit]

Trump wants to be seen as the guy who forced a peace on Trumps terms as he and the world perceive it.

Putin rolling over Ukraine is not that. It might be acceptable to Trump only if it was the consequence of Trump perceived defiance on Ukraine's part of Trump's efforts to make a peace.

But Trump is more likely to perceive defiance from Putin, who is not kissing Trumps ass (in fact he is jabbing Trump in the eye), unlike Zelensky who is showing his willingness to play ball (if it works for Ukraine). This will result in ongoing or increased support for Ukraine, if Trump can overcome the din of warped worldviews from some of his advisors.

Remember, if you want to know what Trump will do, it is what Trump thinks is best for Trump. That is why shit advisors and dept heads are so dangerous.

[highangle]

If you have been following coverage of Ukraine, the link is commonplace and obvious.

Since you couldn't insert a livestream, what's preventing you from typing a short sentence describing the anonymous youtube litter you decided to toss in here?


"I just don't give a fuck."

Why even bother shitposting in the first place?

"To be an asshole. Wasting people's time was just my medium of asshole expression at that moment."

Thanks for clearing that up, bro. Still didn't click your link.

[highangle]

Trump wants to be seen as the guy who forced a peace on Trumps terms as he and the world perceive it.

Putin rolling over Ukraine is not that. It might be acceptable to Trump only if it was the consequence of Trump perceived defiance on Ukraine's part of Trump's efforts to make a peace.

But Trump is more likely to perceive defiance from Putin, who is not kissing Trumps ass (in fact he is jabbing Trump in the eye), unlike Zelensky who is showing his willingness to play ball (if it works for Ukraine). This will result in ongoing or increased support for Ukraine, if Trump can overcome the din of warped worldviews from some of his advisors.

Remember, if you want to know what Trump will do, it is what Trump thinks is best for Trump. That is why shit advisors and dept heads are so dangerous.

Dangerous to what, Summit? A set of ideals that died officially 11/05/24?

No one who respected American ideals would appoint a Russian propagandist and a fucking weekend morning show host to run the Pentagon and national intelligence framework.

[jono]

The Daily Show is unlikely to get all the way back to when Stewart was full time.

Cono's news sources have been telling him every hamlet and farm is "strategic" for months now, it's only natural he'd figure all that would add up. Especially if they make up numbers for Ukrainian casualties with no mention that the DPRK's troops don't cover a week of Russian losses.

[MultiVerse]

Remember, if you want to know what Trump will do, it is what Trump thinks is best for Trump. That is why shit advisors and dept heads are so dangerous.

The overarching concern is Trump pulling out of NATO and multilateral trade agreements in favor of country-by-country tariffs and bilateral defense agreements where everything is transactional for friend and foe alike. The best case scenario is Trump's talk leads to Europe bolstering its own defense. The worst-case scenario is threefold: a Ukrainian military defeat, a full America withdrawal from Europe accompanied by a trade war

[highangle]

The overarching concern is Trump pulling out of NATO and multilateral trade agreements in favor of country-by-country tariffs and bilateral defense agreements where everything is transactional for friend and foe alike. The best case scenario is Trump's talk leads to Europe bolstering its own defense. The worst-case scenario is threefold: a Ukrainian military defeat, a full America withdrawal from Europe accompanied by a trade war

MV that's what people voted for.


The people in Jonestown knew good & well they were drinking poison, but a strong leader told them to do it and they lined up to get their poison.

That's the "pre-logical" or "instinctive" thing that binds Trumpstains [and other fascists] - strength, or rather, the projection of strength. It sells.