Edelweiss Chair and beyond... Alpental , The valley and the rest of snocrummy

[nickwm21]

Certainly less of a moneygrab parking policy than other resorts…

Backcountry users should be in small groups anyway - so carpooling and splitting the $[emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]] over three or four seems reasonable.


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[nickwm21]

[emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji637][emoji639][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji639]]
And isn't the uphill season pass (parking included) only $[emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]]? So effectively the parking season pass is cheaper than a single day.

Seems like a miss. This group should pay the $[emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]] to be in line with the other passes.

Website in general is confusing - it states no paid parking for passes and tickets at the top, then describes the $[emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]] fee for essentially everyone except full passholders below…


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[nickwm21]

Fuck this emoji bullshit. Sorry


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[AK47bp]

My family of 3 all have season passes.

Does this mean I get 6 parking passes?

If so I have 4 passes to sell the highest bidder…$$$$$$.



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[counterfeitfake]

I have mixed feelings about it. When I ride lifts I want to be able to park. When I tour I also want to be able to park. There's not much public parking up there. Aren't the ski area lots on national forest land?

I heard years ago there was an effort to get the Kendall Katwalk parking lot plowed in the winter. Before the pandemic. Did anyone else?

[MottN]

And isn't the uphill season pass (parking included) only $50? So effectively the parking season pass is cheaper than a single day.

You are not allowed to uphill at Alpental, so I question if the uphill pass will work at Alpental lots?
Also the lower lot always used to be explicity open to non-resort guests...is that still the case this year? It sounds like not...I haven't paid attention recently though, maybe it is already this way?

While I see the need, I don't really see how it solves much. The resort is clearly already at capacity (at least on mid winter weekends) so removing a few people from the backcountry to save those parking spots for people adding to the lines doesn't seem like it will help much. And it really only makes snoq and source areas harder. For Kendall area there is plenty of road parking - people will just park there early instead of the west lot.

I assume there are quite a few people like me who have passes and will take up a parking spot either way, but would rather be in touring on a weekend than waiting in lift lines.
There continues to be a need for sno-park based parking for backcountry users, that doesn't make them compete with the ski areas.

[MottN]

I have mixed feelings about it. When I ride lifts I want to be able to park. When I tour I also want to be able to park. There's not much public parking up there. Aren't the ski area lots on national forest land?

I heard years ago there was an effort to get the Kendall Katwalk parking lot plowed in the winter. Before the pandemic. Did anyone else?

Yeah same. The $55 is the offensive part, not really the need to have a parking fee for those who aren't using the lifts.

[Buster Highmen]

You are not allowed to uphill at Alpental, so I question if the uphill pass will work at Alpental lots? s.

Huh?

[The AD]

I heard years ago there was an effort to get the Kendall Katwalk parking lot plowed in the winter. Before the pandemic. Did anyone else?

I think plowing the PCT trailhead lot would be a great idea. Just add it as a Sno-Park area. The problem now is all the snowshoers need to walk along the highway to access the trail. Seems a bit dangerous to me. And those spots are going to fill up quickly with the new $55 parking fee.

[counterfeitfake]

You are not allowed to uphill at Alpental, so I question if the uphill pass will work at Alpental lots?

I guess I can't be 100% certain but I saw no indication of this when I just checked out the Summit's website. Separating the two would require a more sophisticated system.

[AK47bp]

No uphill travel during operating hours at Alpental is what the website has.

https://summitatsnoqualmie.com/uphill-travel-policy


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[counterfeitfake]

Dude we are talking about parking.

[ptavv]

I think he's saying that since Alpental doesn't allow uphill travel (even though it's not that simple and) then they won't let you park at Alpental for $5 with an uphill pass?

I doubt the system will be granular enough (nor the parking plentiful enough) for the parking permits to be area/zone specific.

[ptavv]

I think plowing the PCT trailhead lot would be a great idea. Just add it as a Sno-Park area. The problem now is all the snowshoers need to walk along the highway to access the trail. Seems a bit dangerous to me. And those spots are going to fill up quickly with the new $55 parking fee.

Kyle McCrohan worked on this a few years back through the resuscitated Cascade Backcountry Alliance I think. The major sticking point with that particular trailhead was that there was nowhere to put the snow (I know that sounds silly, but is a real problem for Snoparks -- they need somewhere to plow all the snow that doesn't cannibalize a high proportion of the parking spots themselves and that lot is crammed in amongst a bunch of dense forest).

In a similar vein, it's going to be pretty hilarious when the USFS's hamfisted Gold Creek rehab project closes the sliver of public parking that remains after this policy goes into effect

[AK47bp]

Dude we are talking about parking.

Exactly.




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[carlh]

I can see this helping at alpental where half of lot 4 was people going into the bc last year. It would be nice if I can show up for lessons at 830 without worrying I’m too late to park but not optimistic on that one. I am also assuming as a pass holder I can park in lot 4 even if I’m not riding lifts.

More parking is needed somewhere at the pass and I don’t know where to put it.

[Buster Highmen]

I think plowing the PCT trailhead lot would be a great idea. Just add it as a Sno-Park area. The problem now is all the snowshoers need to walk along the highway to access the trail. Seems a bit dangerous to me. And those spots are going to fill up quickly with the new $55 parking fee.

*This.

Managing the cleared snow there is not rocket seance.

And yes, the North edge of lot4 does seem to be occupied with several dozen or more uphllers every weekend.

lot4 full at 8:00 some average snow weekends was ridiculous.

[ptavv]

*This.

Managing the cleared snow there is not rocket seance.

And yes, the North edge of lot4 does seem to be occupied with several dozen or more uphllers every weekend.

lot4 full at 8:00 some average snow weekends was ridiculous.

I guess I have a weird belief that the underpaid people working for bureaucracies do have some subject matter expertise. I mean that parking lot is ~50 cars in size at best sandwiched between huge trees and thick underbrush. The access road to get to the turnoff for the lot routinely has 10-12' berms that cover a huge %age of the shoulder. If they say it's not reasonable to plow the lot and preserve enough parking spots I tend to believe them.

But while we're engaging in flights of fancy: If you really wanted to increase access to the PCT trailhead (and accidentally improve outdoor access for greater Seattle in winter) for you could reverse the travel direction on the uphill Denny Creek Campground escape road to be westward (downhill), let people park on the uphill side and plow the snow over the edge. Could fit 100s of cars there, run a plow down the hill and throw the snow off the side, but then you'd need to plow the whole thing down to the Denny Creek Campground and out. Which would have the side effect of making available a ton of space for all the plebes who are presently clogging up the limited real estate on the pass without lining Summit's pockets.

But that costs money and no one wants to cut trees down to pay for nice things, so we're stuck.

[CHAIR_97]

Mandatory carpooling and reservations is the next step.


This place is doomed

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[Buster Highmen]

I guess I have a weird belief that the underpaid people working for bureaucracies do have some subject matter expertise. I mean that parking lot is ~50 cars in size at best sandwiched between huge trees and thick underbrush. The access road to get to the turnoff for the lot routinely has 10-12' berms that cover a huge %age of the shoulder. If they say it's not reasonable to plow the lot and preserve enough parking spots I tend to believe them.

But while we're engaging in flights of fancy: If you really wanted to increase access to the PCT trailhead (and accidentally improve outdoor access for greater Seattle in winter) for you could reverse the travel direction on the uphill Denny Creek Campground escape road to be westward (downhill), let people park on the uphill side and plow the snow over the edge. Could fit 100s of cars there, run a plow down the hill and throw the snow off the side, but then you'd need to plow the whole thing down to the Denny Creek Campground and out. Which would have the side effect of making available a ton of space for all the plebes who are presently clogging up the limited real estate on the pass without lining Summit's pockets.

But that costs money and no one wants to cut trees down to pay for nice things, so we're stuck.

Also, not roquet seance. Will it require some ingenuity and money? Well, yeah. And a new ski area.

[The AD]

I guess I have a weird belief that the underpaid people working for bureaucracies do have some subject matter expertise. I mean that parking lot is ~50 cars in size at best sandwiched between huge trees and thick underbrush. The access road to get to the turnoff for the lot routinely has 10-12' berms that cover a huge %age of the shoulder. If they say it's not reasonable to plow the lot and preserve enough parking spots I tend to believe them.

I'm sure it's a problem, but hard to believe it's an unsolvable problem.

Maybe if there's enough public outcry about the $55 parking fee the ski resort could agree to plow that lot (assuming they can sort out the where to put the snow issue) as a compromise.

[californiagrown]

Mandatory carpooling and reservations is the next step.


This place is doomed

They certainly could be boiling us frogs slowly. But, ive been bitching about parking (the lack of it, the blocking in of people, and the use by non-summit guests) on every survey they have sent me since 2020. They are finally doing something about it, and what they are doing doesn't affect passholders like you and me... yet.

What do you think would be a better strategy/program to unfuck the parking CF? If i like it, ill start writing that in on surveys and emails. One thing i will give summit staff credit for is that they do seem to listen and respond to public outcry and have personally responded (with a pretty good answer) to every whiney email ive ever sent them.

[counterfeitfake]

I think he's saying that since Alpental doesn't allow uphill travel (even though it's not that simple and) then they won't let you park at Alpental for $5 with an uphill pass?

This was MottN's completely random guess and I pointed out that it does not specify this when you buy your uphill pass, it just says parking is included.

Am I being confusing or are some of you hitting the post button before you've finished reading?

I doubt the system will be granular enough (nor the parking plentiful enough) for the parking permits to be area/zone specific.

Yeah that's what I said, I'm with you.

So frustrating to be into the outdoors around here. Things keep getting more crowded and yet solutions just seem impossible. I'm on board for cutting down trees for parking lots, the pass has a goddamn interstate freeway going through it,* we are not talking about wilderness.

* which has been undergoing expansion for decades! plenty of will to make that happen I guess

[counterfeitfake]

What do you think would be a better strategy/program to unfuck the parking CF?

If the size of their lots stay fixed any solution is going to suck for somebody.

Are we fantasizing? How about a fuckin' train.

[Buster Highmen]

. I'm on board for cutting down trees for parking lots, the pass has a goddamn interstate freeway going through it,* we are not talking about wilderness.

* which has been undergoing expansion for decades! plenty of will to make that happen I guess

May I refer you to one of my pet peeves, the 'Mountains To Sound Greenway', whose goal is to preserve the view from I-90 in lieu of slash and burn everywhere that can't been seen from I-90.