Truck Tire Time

[Toadman]

Drove the Tundra w/ 33" Wildpeaks AT3s and a 1200lb camper and gear to Targhee and back from CO last week. Went over Teton Pass 4 times and up to Targhee in snow/ice conditions 5 times. Mostly dumping the whole time. Felt pretty comfortable in them the whole time. Got stuck once in the Targhee parking lot because they didn't mark where the end of the lot was and I just sunk into plowed snow and high centered. Slid out in an intersection in Driggs because it was 8" of fresh on glare ice. I also slipped and smacked my head in a brewery parking lot that night under the same conditions. Haha. So yeah, it was slick.

This truck gets low mileage in the winter, and will mostly be a summer traveler as a camper. So I need something that'll be sufficient for both but no real reason to buy snow tires from my POV.

I was watching a bunch of HD pickup trucks spinning their AT tires on Century Drive this weekend pulling trailers of snowmobiles. Some were managing to get going on the sheet of ice. Others were able to slide into the snowbank and find a bit of sand/grit on the edge to keep momentum but they were struggling. One dude clearly had snowtires on his rig and had no issues getting going again. I bet those with AT 3PMSF tires on wished they had a dedicated snow tire. But maybe they figured it was good enough. Everyone has their POV. From where I was at with my studded tires on my rig, I was just annoyed that I had to deal with these knuckleheads that can probably get up the hill 90% of the time picked a holiday weekend with snow and icy road conditions to gum up things. To be clear, there were people in all sorts of rigs stuck. Some were in the middle of the road installing chains. Cops were doing their best to keep people from getting killed and run over. Fun times!

But glad to hear your Wildpeak AT3's are adequate in snow and for towing up mountain passes. Maybe carry chains for that other 10%?

[SoVT Joey]

I was watching a bunch of HD pickup trucks spinning their AT tires on Century Drive this weekend pulling trailers of snowmobiles. Some were managing to get going on the sheet of ice. Others were able to slide into the snowbank and find a bit of sand/grit on the edge to keep momentum but they were struggling. One dude clearly had snowtires on his rig and had no issues getting going again. I bet those with AT 3PMSF tires on wished they had a dedicated snow tire. But maybe they figured it was good enough. Everyone has their POV. From where I was at with my studded tires on my rig, I was just annoyed that I had to deal with these knuckleheads that can probably get up the hill 90% of the time picked a holiday weekend with snow and icy road conditions to gum up things. To be clear, there were people in all sorts of rigs stuck. Some were in the middle of the road installing chains. Cops were doing their best to keep people from getting killed and run over. Fun times!

But glad to hear your Wildpeak AT3's are adequate in snow and for towing up mountain passes. Maybe carry chains for that other 10%?

I agree. There is no reason to have a dedicated snow tire and not have studs.

[Name Redacted]

I agree. There is no reason to have a dedicated snow tire and not have studs.

You guys live in very different climates I take it.


Studs don't really do much for you on anything but ice, and places like CO rarely get ice to the point where studs are necessary. In fact, they can reduce traction in many circumstances. Studs are only really great on clear ice. On everything else, non-studded tires are actually superior.

On a truck being driven in CO and WY, mostly in the summer but sometimes in winter, the 3PMSF tires really are fine. Maybe you need to drive a little more conservatively in snowy conditions, but honestly I have been driving these and the KO2's for over 25 years.

Now if you live somewhere with more ice, then yeah, get some studs.

[SchralphMacchio]

I was watching a bunch of HD pickup trucks spinning their AT tires on Century Drive this weekend pulling trailers of snowmobiles.

I’ve never seen OSP enforce it with sled, utility, livestock, or RV trailers on 20 or 58, but they are technically supposed to have chains on both the truck and trailer when chain requirement signs are flipped up … doesn’t Century have chain control signage like the passes do?

Of course there is a huge difference between pulling even an enclosed sled trailer, a travel trailer, or semi trailer in gnarly conditions, but the chain requirement doesn’t distinguish GVWR of the trailer here in Oregon. I always put chains on the truck and my travel trailer when signs are up because I never want to be “that guy,” but it sure is annoying when signs are up and roads are dry save for 1-2 ice covered corners.

I’m actually thinking about switching the trailer to - gasp - AutoSocks, mostly because the clearance with my chains and shock bodies are way too small for comfort - it’s like 1/2 inch.

There is no reason to have a dedicated snow tire and not have studs.

Well as mentioned above, when towing here and signs are up, you are required to have chains on the truck and trailer regardless of tire type, so the studs are mostly irrelevant in that use case. Also some people don’t like the road noise?

Between the chain requirement and my truck driving on dry roads with no snow or ice for 95% of winter miles (even with it being dedicated for ski trips and no around town use) studless just seems more sensible for my use case.
Of course I can totally understand people with pretty steep driveways still going studded while living down here in the valley, or those who just want ultimate optimization for worst case conditions even if they live 100 miles from typical snowline.

[::: :::]

You guys live in very different climates I take it.


Studs don't really do much for you on anything but ice, and places like CO rarely get ice to the point where studs are necessary. In fact, they can reduce traction in many circumstances. Studs are only really great on clear ice. On everything else, non-studded tires are actually superior.

On a truck being driven in CO and WY, mostly in the summer but sometimes in winter, the 3PMSF tires really are fine. Maybe you need to drive a little more conservatively in snowy conditions, but honestly I have been driving these and the KO2's for over 25 years.

Now if you live somewhere with more ice, then yeah, get some studs.

Not just for glare ice

I’d suggest that if you’re coming from dry roads at 5k’ at 40F going up to over 8k’ for snow, you are going through a freeze layer on your drive, hopefully at highway speeds. Studs assist in the transitional stuff and the frozen hardpack. Maybe the dryness guarantees less icy conditions there?

Certainly if you are already at snow level at the start of your drive, studs are less useful.

It’s essential here where often we go from rain up to snow on the drive

[bodywhomper]

Ok. For fun, add studdable snow tires, but w/o studs, to your discussions. GO!

[El Chupacabra]

Ok. For fun, add studdable snow tires, but w/o studs, to your discussions. GO!

I don't really like studded tires. Noisy, tears up the driveway, and we don't have that much ice around Tahoe usually, so not that useful to me.

I have a new stack of studdable winter tires in the garage right now, which I'm dropping off to get mounted in the morning. I'm not going to stud them.

[SoVT Joey]

My Goodyear duratracs are studded. There is no noticeable road noise unless my windows are down. 325/65r18. I had studs in Montana and I have them in Vermont. They are necessary here, they were nice to have out there, but not super needed. I will always get them after doing two winters without.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Duratracs aren’t winter tires that might be why you feel the necessity for studs. I’ve driven Duratracs in the winter here and they’re “okay” but there are better AT tire options for winter use. The studs on the Duratracs don’t seem noisy because Duratracs are already loud.


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[Name Redacted]

Studs actually increase stopping distance on wet pavement. You probably drive on wet more than you do on ice if you think about it.

[bodywhomper]

Come on, y’all, show some data.

[XavierD]

Studs actually increase stopping distance on wet pavement. You probably drive on wet more than you do on ice if you think about it.

Sure, but ice is where the most sudden and severe loss of traction is. Studded tires work almost as well as non studded in soft snow, and the drop off on wet roads is pretty manageable. When the ice or even just compact snow&ice shows up (ie: all the time) the drop off from studded to non-studded is massive and can be without warning and catastrophic.

A/T and R/T tires also underperform highway tires for the vast majority of driving people use them for, but likewise, significantly outperform said highway tires in the 5-10% of conditions you got them for.

[MarsB]

If anything, this thread illustrates the diversity of winter tire setups needed depending on your geographic location. What works in the intermountain west may not be appropriate for driving in the PNW, New England, etc. and vice-versa.

[teleee]

If anything, this thread illustrates the diversity of winter tire setups needed depending on your geographic location. What works in the intermountain west may not be appropriate for driving in the PNW, New England, etc. and vice-versa.

Yea but this is TGR so I’m right and everyone is doing it wrong


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[Toadman]

Studs actually increase stopping distance on wet pavement. You probably drive on wet more than you do on ice if you think about it.

True. Same on dry. But I would rather have a longer stopping distance on wet and dry, which is less of an issue than stopping on ice. Lateral traction is also better with studded tires while navigating all the roundabouts here in Bend. With the freeze-thaw cycles and ice we get in Central Oregon, and where I'm at and the terrain I am driving on, the peace of mind of studded tires outweighs the non-white knuckle driving I do to and from work in wet or dry conditions.

[SoVT Joey]

Duratracs aren’t winter tires that might be why you feel the necessity for studs. I’ve driven Duratracs in the winter here and they’re “okay” but there are better AT tire options for winter use. The studs on the Duratracs don’t seem noisy because Duratracs are already loud.


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I guess the fact that they are just about every plow truck around makes me put them in the winter tire category and very few of them are studded. Hak’s are garbage for plowing compared to duratracs. The road noise thing is most due to the sound screen in the lariats. XL and XLT are very noticeable. The sound screen is amazing.

[anotherVTskibum]

I guess the fact that they are just about every plow truck around makes me put them in the winter tire category and very few of them are studded. Hak’s are garbage for plowing compared to duratracs. The road noise thing is most due to the sound screen in the lariats. XL and XLT are very noticeable. The sound screen is amazing.

I sold my used, studded Haks to a friend who was planning to put them on his plow truck. I'll have to ask him what he thinks if we ever get another proper storm and what he was running prior (I know it was something without studs, but I'm not sure what).

I wish there were more third-party tests out there comparing modern LT tires in various flavors in various types of real-world winter (and near-winter) conditions and providing both objective and subjective reviews. I mean, a tire demo day on a snowy day would be even better, but that seems rather unlikely.

[g_man80]

I guess the fact that they are just about every plow truck around makes me put them in the winter tire category and very few of them are studded. Hak’s are garbage for plowing compared to duratracs. The road noise thing is most due to the sound screen in the lariats. XL and XLT are very noticeable. The sound screen is amazing.

The XLT has the SoundScreen windshield and acoustic front windows. Well my 2017 f-150 xlt 302a package truck does. Not sure if that’s the case with 3/4 and 1 tons or non-302a trucks.

[J. Barron DeJong]

I guess the fact that they are just about every plow truck around makes me put them in the winter tire category and very few of them are studded. Hak’s are garbage for plowing compared to duratracs. The road noise thing is most due to the sound screen in the lariats. XL and XLT are very noticeable. The sound screen is amazing.

The fact that Goodyear calls Duratracs all-season/all-terrain tires, and not winter tires, would suggest that they consider them to be all-season/all-terrain tires and not winter tires.

[SchralphMacchio]

The Hakka LT3 sidewalls are noticeably flexy under dynamic loads, despite having the same load indices as same sized summer or AT tires. I run my Rancho dampers at max stiffness when the Hakkas are on just to get the perception of towing stability and ride feel closer to what it is with my Mich LTX AT2s … I wonder if this is a reason anyone running a plow would complain as well, I don’t know, just speculation since I’ve never driven a plow shovel. I have zero complaints about the traction of the studless LT3s on any kind of winter surface including glare ice, and I can see how increased compliance generated by sidewall flex can also increase traction.

[t-the-east]

Danno you missed big expense (C) which is the decision of whether or not to get compatible TPMS sensors for your winter wheelset and having them coded to clone your summer wheelset so that the vehicle won’t know the difference. If you have an older vehicle that won’t bark at you for not having sensors then it’s probably not worth the expense, but if you have a newer vehicle that can display the actual sensor readings then it’s probably worth it - up to you!

This will probably cost much more than used OE wheels but about half as much as new tires. Some shops may fold in the labor for installing and cloning the sensors with the mount and balance labor. I think I paid like $300 for my second set of TPMS sensors? I honestly can’t remember as my main set needed to be replaced anyway due to age so the shop gave me a discount for getting 8 sensors

Wait, this is a thing? I always thought you had to do the “relearn” thing when you swapped the tires. I didn’t know you could clone all 8 tpms sensors.
That’s actually been a part of why I haven’t committed to the two sets, or the light on the dash would drive me nuts. And I have a spare set of OE rims that came with my Tundra too. This changes things…

[SchralphMacchio]

Wait, this is a thing? I always thought you had to do the “relearn” thing when you swapped the tires. I didn’t know you could clone all 8 tpms sensors.
That’s actually been a part of why I haven’t committed to the two sets, or the light on the dash would drive me nuts. And I have a spare set of OE rims that came with my Tundra too. This changes things…

My 4 OE sensors were running out of batteries after 10 years and started getting glitchy, so I replaced those 4 with new aftermarket sensors and also got my winter wheelset fitted up at the same time - so yes the installer was able to clone the 4 sensors in my winter wheelset so that no re learning is required when I (drive to my shop and have them) swap the wheels. Didn’t do any of this myself of course, paid my shop becuase I’m too afraid of breaking a precious finger nail while running FORSCAN software.

[Buzzworthy]

Yea but this is TGR so I’m right and everyone is doing it wrong


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Ski off it is mutha fukka!
Blue Mountain, PA. On Spatulas. NASTAR course.

[El Chupacabra]

My 4 OE sensors were running out of batteries after 10 years and started getting glitchy, so I replaced those 4 with new aftermarket sensors and also got my winter wheelset fitted up at the same time - so yes the installer was able to clone the 4 sensors in my winter wheelset so that no re learning is required when I (drive to my shop and have them) swap the wheels. Didn’t do any of this myself of course, paid my shop becuase I’m too afraid of breaking a precious finger nail while running FORSCAN software.

I made several changes to the F350 I had using FORSCAN. It's pretty easy, just back up frequently and follow all the directions.

I turned off TPMS system for the winter set of tires. Also set the TPMS warning threshold to 50 psi, so it didn't require 80psi rear when empty, which is pretty brutal riding.

[SoVT Joey]

I made several changes to the F350 I had using FORSCAN. It's pretty easy, just back up frequently and follow all the directions.

I turned off TPMS system for the winter set of tires. Also set the TPMS warning threshold to 50 psi, so it didn't require 80psi rear when empty, which is pretty brutal riding.

I will second that forscan is really easy. I’m a full blown technology idiot and figured it out. I lowered my threshold as well for the tpms, fixed my speedometer so that it was closer with oversized tires, took off the obnoxious honk when leaving the truck with the key fob in my pocket, turned on fog lights with high beams, and made it so when I unlocked from the door code all the doors unlock instead of just the drivers side. My tpms threshold was 60 all the way around but I run 55psi on my winter tires because I don’t tow or haul during those months. Then back to 65 during the summer. I will put rears up to 80 if I’m moving one of the bigger machines. But immediately drop back down. The ride with 75 to 80 psi is terrible with out a load on. On another side note, leveling the super duty may look sweet but makes the ride even worse if you have any weight in the bed of the truck or hook to a trailer. The front end will float all over the road. My 4.5” lift made my truck level and looked great until I dropped my toolbox and decked in and filled up tools. Immediately had too little weight in the front and had to do an add a leaf. From what research told me, its just the trucks with solid front axels that really have this issue. So super duty’s and 2500 and up rams. Sorry for the digression.


Back to the duratracs…. Yea they are shown as an all season but most people that buy in this area of vermont are buying for winter performance and run a stock type tire in the summer. I wouldn’t deal with the road noise of these in the summer and the ride is definitely a lot worse on these then on my 37” ridge grapplers.

Ridge grapplers are definitely the nicest tire I have ever had and have amazing life. Last set I got 48k on, the set I am running now on my summers will probably last the same. They do really well with 7k-8k rotation intervals too, which is my oil change interval usually.