New Strive - paging ONK

[GoldenBC]

Strive 12 GW and 14 GW are 20/25 = 5mm, Strive 16 MN is 21/25 = 4mm, don't have an STH2 16 MN (all mine are WTR, which is 20/25 = 5mm).

Do you measure up to AFD? I feel like we need to use the top of the toe lug as a constant when measuring binding delta, otherwise it won't account for different sole styles and different binding adjustment styles.

Because the Strive MN and STH adjust by moving the toe up, and a Shift adjusts the AFD down, and the toe of a WTR soled boot is thicker than a GW or Alpine (from AFD to top of toe lug), you're going to get a different delta in different bindings and different boots. If we are talking one boot going between two bindings that adjust the same, then it works, but it doesn't paint a very thorough picture.

AKA: A GW boot in a shift will have a different angle than a GW boot in a Strive MNC. Even more pronounced when using a Touring sole.

Technically, the Shift is going to be more constant across all different boots (ironically, because it's a shift).

[gregL]

Do you measure up to AFD? I feel like we need to use the top of the toe lug as a constant when measuring binding delta, otherwise it won't account for different sole styles and different binding adjustment styles.

Because the Strive MN and STH adjust by moving the toe up, and a Shift adjusts the AFD down, and the toe of a WTR soled boot is thicker than a GW or Alpine (from AFD to top of toe lug), you're going to get a different delta in different bindings and different boots. If we are talking one boot going between two bindings that adjust the same, then it works, but it doesn't paint a very thorough picture.

AKA: A GW boot in a shift will have a different angle than a GW boot in a Strive MNC. Even more pronounced when using a Touring sole.

Technically, the Shift is going to be more constant across all different boots (ironically, because it's a shift).

Yes, I measure to the top of the AFD. You have a good point about different sole types affecting AFD height, but not in the bindings I'm talking about - if we were comparing a Shift or a Marker Royal Family binding, you should at least take note of what type of boot sole is in the binding to get that AFD height, or use the same boot in both bindings.

Not sure measuring to the top of the toe lug would be an improvement; theoretically there could be a 1.75mm difference between the lowest GripWalk sole and the highest ISO 5355 sole . . .

At any rate, every boot/binding combination I've measured this season has been with a GripWalk sole, including in my basement. Many/most of the bindings were measured in our shop.

[gregL]

AKA: A GW boot in a shift will have a different angle than a GW boot in a Strive MNC. Even more pronounced when using a Touring sole.

Do you have a Shift around to measure stand height and delta with a GripWalk boot? The delta shouldn't change any more than an ISO 5355 sole, since the spec is actually more stringent for GripWalk (19mm +/- .75mm vs 19mm +/- 1mm for 5355). Witness the Look Dual WTR models - "Alpine" works for GripWalk also. ISO 9523 sole will for sure drop the AFD height on the Shift, raise the toe on the Strive MN.

[GoldenBC]

Do you have a Shift around to measure stand height and delta with a GripWalk boot? The delta shouldn't change any more than an ISO 5355 sole, since the spec is actually more stringent for GripWalk (19mm +/- .75mm vs 19mm +/- 1mm for 5355). Witness the Look Dual WTR models - "Alpine" works for GripWalk also. ISO 9523 sole will for sure drop the AFD height on the Shift, raise the toe on the Strive MN.

Sorry, you’re right on that with those bindings, im quite sure a few older bindings have to be adjusted to compensate for the angled AFD on GW but new stuff all seems to place it where the AFD on the boot is at the same depth.

We deal with a lot of 9523 boots around here.


Do you think the 1.75mm would come from the top of the lug or the bottom of the sole? I would think the bottom but maybe not. Just thinking about switching soles on a pair of boots, the top is the same ish. Obviously this can all go out the window of a company drops the foot into the bootboard more than another.

[gregL]

Do you think the 1.75mm would come from the top of the lug or the bottom of the sole?

That was purely hypothetical. A GripWalk sole could be 18.25mm from AFD center to top of toe lug and still pass ISO 23223, an alpine sole could be 20mm and still pass ISO 5355 . . . if I was making a shell mold, I would shoot for 19mm for either type "just in case."

[gregL]

. . . new stuff all seems to place it where the AFD on the boot is at the same depth , , ,

That is by design as well, the spot where the sole is supposed to contact the binding AFD is 34mm from the tip of the boot toe.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FSA...usp=drive_link

[tupp_]

Any updates from those with these mounted up?

[gregL]

Any updates from those with these mounted up?

Two days on them so far; can't tell the difference between the Strive 16 MN and the STH2 16 WTR except when you look down . . .

[gregL]

Do you have a Shift around to measure stand height and delta with a GripWalk boot? The delta shouldn't change any more than an ISO 5355 sole, since the spec is actually more stringent for GripWalk (19mm +/- .75mm vs 19mm +/- 1mm for 5355). Witness the Look Dual WTR models - "Alpine" works for GripWalk also. ISO 9523 sole will for sure drop the AFD height on the Shift, raise the toe on the Strive MN.

Shift 13 MNC with GripWalk sole = 25/29 or 4mm delta . . . anyone measure a Duke PT 16?

[Flexon Phil]

GripWalk does NOT change the delta. While the AFD might adjust, the top of the lug is static therefore it sets the delta.

[gregL]

GripWalk does NOT change the delta. While the AFD might adjust, the top of the lug is static therefore it sets the delta.

GripWalk does not change the delta as compared to ISO 5355 (theoretically not more than .25 mm); if you stick a Touring ISO 9523 in an MN binding with an adjustable AFD it will change the height which is what I think we are both measuring.

[FloridaSnow]

Just got back from Breck skiing my strive 16mn on moment deathwish 104 184’s and pivot 18’s on moment meridian 181’s.

also have sth2 mnc on moment wildcat 190’s but didn’t have them on this trip.

Sth2 felt higher, heavier and bulkier based off my memory. The weight for me is a wash because it’s on a 190 118 ski that’s heavier. I had pre release issues when I first got the sth2. After adjusting them personally I never had issues again. I think the shop did a shit job adjusting the wings.

skiing the strive 16 and pivot 18 b2b I really didn’t notice any difference skiing. They are two different style skis which you do notice the difference in the way each ski acts based off shape but really couldn’t tell any difference from the bindings themselves.

I did get to test some durability with the strives. Was in the trees and got thrown off line from a branch. Ended up nailing another branch that was low dead center on the toe. Took a bunch of wood with me caked into the din adjustment screw but the toe itself was fine. Ending up nailing the boot after the binding and nailed the boa dial on my boot. No damage to anything. I know it’s a sample size of 1 but it was a fairly hard hit.

just as a general opinion for my own feet. The pivots and strive skiied essentially the same for me. They both felt better (subjective) than my sth2.

[hick]

Is there a Strive paper mounting template floating around anywhere? I'm having a tough time locating one.
EDIT: Looks like I can use Warden 11 paper template for Strive 14. I'll report back here and in the binding template thread once I verify...

[gregL]

Shift 13 MNC with GripWalk sole = 25/29 or 4mm delta . . . anyone measure a Duke PT 16?

Looks like Duke PT 16 is 19/26 = 7mm . . .

[Qilimanjaro]

Thanks Greg, I’ve been Googling these figures for 2 days in a row now. Felt like I was badly off balance on PT 16

[tupp_]

Can confirm, the strives feel fine. In fact, they make the STH2's look massive in comparison.

One weird design choice that I don't understand is the stepped toe rollers. Photo below. The rollers have a step in them, so your boot is only laterally supported by about 2-3mm of plastic roller rather than the full ~6-7mm. In fact, this is clearly wearing down the toes of my new gripwalk boots made with a softer PU.

If I adjust the toe height such that my toes sit just below the wider step, I can physically push up on the toe and feel 2-3mm of play vertically as my toes pop up above the step.

Anyone from Amer here to comment?

[Bandit Man]

So, they feel better than STH2 but damage toe lugs? That’s not encouraging.

[Supermoon]

Is there a Strive paper mounting template floating around anywhere? I'm having a tough time locating one.
EDIT: Looks like I can use Warden 11 paper template for Strive 14. I'll report back here and in the binding template thread once I verify...

Stive 12/14 use the Warden 11 hole pattern and the Strive 16 uses the Warden 13 template. I found this out the hard way.

[tupp_]

So, they feel better than STH2 but damage toe lugs? That’s not encouraging.

I'm confused about the design - emailed Salomon so we will see what they say. Doesn't seem to have impacted my alpine boots with harder plastics.

[SnowMachine]

So, they feel better than STH2 but damage toe lugs? That’s not encouraging.

That wasn't my experience with 20 or so days on mine. I sent them down the road, but only because I have enough STH's to keep me on them for the next decade or so.

Forward pressure look good? @tupp_

[tupp_]

Yea the fwd pressure is good. I think it could just be a case of soft plastic?

[hick]

Stive 12/14 use the Warden 11 hole pattern and the Strive 16 uses the Warden 13 template. I found this out the hard way.

Thanks! Yup, warden 11 worked for strive 14.


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[gregL]

Can confirm, the strives feel fine. In fact, they make the STH2's look massive in comparison.

One weird design choice that I don't understand is the stepped toe rollers. Photo below. The rollers have a step in them, so your boot is only laterally supported by about 2-3mm of plastic roller rather than the full ~6-7mm. In fact, this is clearly wearing down the toes of my new gripwalk boots made with a softer PU.

If I adjust the toe height such that my toes sit just below the wider step, I can physically push up on the toe and feel 2-3mm of play vertically as my toes pop up above the step.

Anyone from Amer here to comment?

Interesting. The STH2 also has rollers that flare out at the top, but not "stepped" like the Strive - in years of skiing relatively soft hybrid soles in them (OG Tecnica Zero G Pro Tour, Lange XT Free, etc.) I never got dents in the toes . . .

[stuntmanbo]

Anyone knows the delta (toe/heel heights) of the Strive 13 Demo ?

[Bandit Man]

Anyone knows the delta (toe/heel heights) of the Strive 13 Demo ?

Skitalk.com has the following posted:




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