Ask the experts

[MCS5280]

I'm trying to figure out a nagging fit issue I'm having between two bikes. Whats the cheapest path to being able to support a bike with 29x2.4" tires/boost axles in a way that I can record myself pedaling? I was initially looking at basic trainers on craigslist but a lot of them say they only fit 29x1.5" or less. Not really interested in using the trainer as anything but a support stand.

[Iowagriz]

I'm trying to figure out a nagging fit issue I'm having between two bikes. Whats the cheapest path to being able to support a bike with 29x2.4" tires/boost axles in a way that I can record myself pedaling? I was initially looking at basic trainers on craigslist but a lot of them say they only fit 29x1.5" or less. Not really interested in using the trainer as anything but a support stand.

In theory, you should be able to get any old turbo trainer and remove your 2.4 tire. No need for the tire to contact the fluid roller/drum since you don't need the workout. Surely someone local has one for you to borrow.

[beaterdit]

Rollers could work too. They’re a bit tricky at first, more so with a fatter tire, but doable. You’d for sure need a tripod or a second party to film. A wheel-off trainer would work fine too, just have to make sure you can level the bike. You’d have to that with a drum/fluid trainer too.

Where are you located? I’ve got all three options in the garage.

[toast2266]

I'm trying to figure out a nagging fit issue I'm having between two bikes. Whats the cheapest path to being able to support a bike with 29x2.4" tires/boost axles in a way that I can record myself pedaling? I was initially looking at basic trainers on craigslist but a lot of them say they only fit 29x1.5" or less. Not really interested in using the trainer as anything but a support stand.

Like others said, you could just take the tire off. But remember you'll probably need a thru axle adaptor to get the bike to fit in a cheap trainer.

[Abies]

Which wheelset did your Knolly come with? Website says either Spank or a Race Face Aeffect.

Dunno didn’t ask. Hoping RF because I don’t know anything about the Spank ones, but figured for the price I won’t complain. Likely going to lace up something nicer anyways if I decide I like the bike.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bamboocoreONLY]

Dunno didn’t ask. Hoping RF because I don’t know anything about the Spank ones, but figured for the price I won’t complain. Likely going to lace up something nicer anyways if I decide I like the bike.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Racefaces wheels are garbage (well the hubs mostly), better hope it's the spanks. Can't even count how many raceface hubs we've warrantied in the shop.

[Abies]

Oh bummer well guess I’ll see


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[XtrPickels]

I'm trying to figure out a nagging fit issue I'm having between two bikes. Whats the cheapest path to being able to support a bike with 29x2.4" tires/boost axles in a way that I can record myself pedaling? I was initially looking at basic trainers on craigslist but a lot of them say they only fit 29x1.5" or less. Not really interested in using the trainer as anything but a support stand.

If you're near Boulder I have a Feedback Omnium Trainer you can borrow.

[VTskibum]

Shockwiz? Worth owning for the many mountain bikes I have. Always relied on bracketing, but riding with some really fast enduro racers these days and think I need to start fiddling w/ marginal gains. On sale now and was going to throw on wife's x-mas list for me...

[Andeh]

No, it's junk. Do some research on what setting does what, get a small notebook to record your settings, and keep doing bracketing.

[VTskibum]

Yep, I have two pretty decent test loops that I use that loop back to lot for tinkering. Thx for feedback


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[zion zig zag]

No, it's junk. Do some research on what setting does what, get a small notebook to record your settings, and keep doing bracketing.

I don't know, I think it gets you pretty close. There was one for sale on here a few months back so me and a few friends went in together and bought it. I felt like my suspension was pretty dialed, and when I ran the shockwiz it reflected that. It suggested a couple clicks one way or another and also suggested I drop down in volume spacers which I had been meaning to do anyway.

[jm2e]

Shockwiz? Worth owning for the many mountain bikes I have. Always relied on bracketing, but riding with some really fast enduro racers these days and think I need to start fiddling w/ marginal gains. On sale now and was going to throw on wife's x-mas list for me...

I liked using mine. Helped dial in psi and helped cure the constant wondering if I'd done enough fiddling. It also helps show you that there is not a perfect tune unless all you're doing is lapping the same short section of trail over and over again. So it reminds you that compromise is inevitable.

[Roxtar]

Racefaces wheels are garbage (well the hubs mostly), better hope it's the spanks. Can't even count how many raceface hubs we've warrantied in the shop.

Is that the new-ish Vault hubs? They look pretty robust and the design makes sense.

[Andeh]

So here's my issues with ShockWiz, compared to a data acquisition system that pros are using (Motion Instruments). If you read/listen to current suspension tuning theories, most of them basically boil down to getting your front and rear suspension balanced relative to each other, using an appropriate amount of travel for what's being ridden, enough compression damping to keep the bike stable, and fast enough rebound to recover between repetitive hits.

ShockWiz only works on air suspension. If you use coil or a multi-chamber air setup (like Manitou, Ohlins, EXT), you're out of luck.
ShockWiz gives you recommendations for changing one piece of your suspension without taking into consideration what the other end is doing. This can create all sorts of issues and sometimes feedback loops. If your fork is too soft and you're running ShockWiz on your shock, it will probably tell you that you need to reduce pressure in the shock because it thinks you're not using enough travel (since you're always pitching forward) - then you'll have poorly tuned suspension on both ends.
ShockWiz is very sensitive to the calibration portion of setup, and frequently it will give you different Compression Ration values each time. If you use the wrong CR, it will give you bad suggestions.
ShockWiz fundamentally is measuring just air pressure changes, and extrapolating that to linear travel of the fork/shock itself. Pro-grade systems use linear sensors to measure travel of the shock/fork, and also use the bike's head angle and leverage ratio curve to look at axle positions (front vs rear).

But my biggest critique of it is that because it gives specific instructions (open LSC, add volume token, etc.) people who use it tend to blindly follow the suggestions without thinking about what they were feeling on the bike and whether or not the change actually makes sense. Taking a bit of time to learn what the basic components of suspension do, and then spending some time experimenting with them is really incredibly helpful. This Cathro video is quite good: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/video-...episode-2.html

[El Chupacabra]

Is that the new-ish Vault hubs? They look pretty robust and the design makes sense.

The Vault rear hub looks pretty solid. No personal experience with that one though.

I had two of the earlier Trace hubs that came on the Aeffect wheelset. Those rear hubs were pretty bad. Teeny tiny pawl springs that broke on their own and RF doesn't sell replacements, and also very poor seals.

Front hubs are all pretty much fine no matter what the brand. It's the freehub assembly that causes trouble.

[toast2266]

Is that the new-ish Vault hubs? They look pretty robust and the design makes sense.

No idea about the current generation stuff, but I have a ~5 year old set of vault hubs that have been bomber. Bearings are still smooth, and freehub has been problem free. Those things have a few thousand miles on them, with plenty of mud, slop, and lift served abuse. Only complaint is that they're not the fastest rolling hubs, presumably because they have some extra seals in there.

[Roxtar]

No idea about the current generation stuff, but I have a ~5 year old set of vault hubs that have been bomber. Bearings are still smooth, and freehub has been problem free. Those things have a few thousand miles on them, with plenty of mud, slop, and lift served abuse. Only complaint is that they're not the fastest rolling hubs, presumably because they have some extra seals in there.

That's kind of what I thought. They seemed like a pretty good hub for the $.
Bamboocore may have been referring to older generation or lower end RF hubs

[bamboocoreONLY]

That's kind of what I thought. They seemed like a pretty good hub for the $.
Bamboocore may have been referring to older generation or lower end RF hubs

Nah, my vault hub cracked at the thru axle sleeve around where the freehub meets the hub body, and a customer also had the same issue. I'll admit I'm also more sour on them because fox is the slowest warranty to deal with ever as well haha

But yeah the main issue is those trace hubs, as they were used on all of our rocky mtn demo bikes, and all but one had to be sent in for warranty with a weird tolerance issue causing the freehub to move with your cranks instead of spinning freely.

[XtrPickels]

Re Shockwhiz, I had one and I think it's an interesting product for a sub-set of rider. They need to be interested enough to actually take the time to care about their suspension, but with basic enough knowledge that they do not understand how to change settings. The fact that it is a not factory-racer level equipment doesn't make it inherently bad.

That was me when I bought it and it helped me understand how or why I wanted to make changes (at least in a basic sense). It also helped me understand how different settings would make the global feel of the bike different (with their tuning guides for poppy, etc.)

Ultimately it was the gateway to consuming the Vorsprung videos and other resources that lead to a more in-depth knowledge. I eventually got rid of it as I learned how to experiment - but I will say I can't always feel changes that I'm making when I'm turning knobs.

I do agree, however, that getting a correct compression ratio is essential and you have to take care and verify that the number is repeatable before using it for adjusting your set up.

I do think that they could improve the product by running 2 at the same time and logging / analyzing in the app to get a more holistic view.

[Iowagriz]

Shopping for XC full susp.; coming from 12yr racing a Ti hardtail with Fox 32 100mm. Had been keeping with Santa Cruz Blur, Pivot Mach 4 and Spec Epic EVO - all in the 120/120 or 120/110 (new Pivot).

Old model Mach 4s are on sale and dropping. 100 on the rear of these, vs the new frame of 106/115 (flip chip rear).
Of course they are tempting me with the xt/xtr, fox 32 100/100 version of the old model at $4500 ($5300 with carbon wheelset). Fox 34, 120/100 version is $4875/$5750 (carbon wheelset).

I'm 58 and still xc oriented towards big rides and not much for air. I'll pound the singletrack down and max out my current fox 32 in braking bumps, but rarely feel limited by the front travel, just the hardtail end.

My question is if I'd really miss out on the 120 in the front vs the 100? Remembering the rear on this old model is the same either route (100).

Competitive Cyclist if you are wondering where.

[toast2266]

Shopping for XC full susp.; coming from 12yr racing a Ti hardtail with Fox 32 100mm. Had been keeping with Santa Cruz Blur, Pivot Mach 4 and Spec Epic EVO - all in the 120/120 or 120/110 (new Pivot).

Old model Mach 4s are on sale and dropping. 100 on the rear of these, vs the new frame of 106/115 (flip chip rear).
Of course they are tempting me with the xt/xtr, fox 32 100/100 version of the old model at $4500 ($5300 with carbon wheelset). Fox 34, 120/100 version is $4875/$5750 (carbon wheelset).

I'm 58 and still xc oriented towards big rides and not much for air. I'll pound the singletrack down and max out my current fox 32 in braking bumps, but rarely feel limited by the front travel, just the hardtail end.

My question is if I'd really miss out on the 120 in the front vs the 100? Remembering the rear on this old model is the same either route (100).

Competitive Cyclist if you are wondering where.

On one hand, what you don't know can't hurt you. If you're used to a hardtail with a 100mm fork, a Mach 4 with a 100mm 32 is going to feel incredible.

On the other hand, for the type of riding you're looking to do - lots of xc miles, big rides, but (as I understand it) not trying to race competitively, a *slightly* longer travel bike with somewhat relaxed angles is going to be much, much more enjoyable. A smidge heavier, but much, much more comfortable for long days on the bike, and almost certainly faster and more efficient over the course of a big ride. Of the three you listed, the Epic Evo would certainly be my pick. There are a bunch of other bikes that would be worth considering though. Rocky Mtn. Element, Trek Top Fuel, etc.

[Iowagriz]

Agree that anything will feel fantastic in comparison. I just missed out on the Epic EVO by Smoeken (sp?), I procrastinated too much on pulling the trigger. You are correct, big xc rides, Missoula/Whitefish xc type terrain, so not much for extended challenging terrain. No bike park or lift rides, I'll rent if I step into that.

I don't think the Fox 32 is able to be expanded to 120, right? If that is the case, I'd buy the 100/100 Pivot and increase the front travel if I need it later.

[toast2266]

Agree that anything will feel fantastic in comparison. I just missed out on the Epic EVO by Smoeken (sp?), I procrastinated too much on pulling the trigger. You are correct, big xc rides, Missoula/Whitefish xc type terrain, so not much for extended challenging terrain. No bike park or lift rides, I'll rent if I step into that.

I don't think the Fox 32 is able to be expanded to 120, right? If that is the case, I'd buy the 100/100 Pivot and increase the front travel if I need it later.

Yeah, I believe the current model 32 is limited to 100mm. I know a bunch of the XC race guys are running a 34 step-cast now (which is 120mm). The 34 SC only weighs about 100g more than the 32.

[volklpowdermaniac]

At a weird tweener weight right now I don't expect to be at for too much longer after getting some health stuff sorted, my 34 fox pants are just a little too big but not worth swapping for some 32. Sadly neither have belt loops just ratchets. Can anyone's recc a good pair of add on sport suspenders that work with snow/bike pant type material pants? Ones that are not previously designed for suspenders obviously.

Thx