The TGR Skinny Ski Ski Tourers' Refuge Thread

[Marshal Olson]

haha yeah i think the saving mindset is one i have not embraced but need to come to terms with. good thing i hoarded a decent amount lf gear in my pre-kid life.

thanks a ton for the resources! read through all of them (better morning read than a typical new yorker imo) and im convinced i *need* a boot in that category. wife is not completely convinced yet...still probably will wait till next season. im def not as good a skier as you but am excited to see how far i can go with something like the dna.

just will need to decide whether to rip the plums i have on the old pdgs and put em on something skinny but with a bit more backbone (atomics uls come to mind; i alrdy have something in the 95mm range as a daily driver) or to just get another setup altogether...

n+1 and all that. thanks again for the info jonathan.


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One friendly tip is that if you go full skimo boot, and plan to ski it with normal BC pants (ie not spandex) in boot top pow or deeper snow (where they thrive the most), be sure the gaiter comes up high enough to touch the upper cuff and that the boot can work with a full height liner (along with a bikini liner).

I have the original LaSpo Raceborg (which is absolutely fantastic), and the gaiter comes up JUUUUST high enough to work, and with very little modification (removed the foam upper and a small incision to the gaiter to open up a little more around the ankle), it accepts a full length liner wonderfully. I believe Scarpa Aliens are similar. I do not believe the current DNA nor the new Raceborg 2 fit these criteria however. This may not bother you, and if it doesn't no stress! YMMV.

Just stating it as something I navigated myself in going to a skimo boot arsenal and selling off all the 1000g+ clunkers in my fleet, haha.

[Jonathan S.]

My boot missive is probably just as overly lengthy as a typical New Yorker piece too!

Agreed on the gaiter issue for race boots. Note that the PG Black is unique among full cf boots for having a full-height gaiter.

[TG]

My boot missive is probably just as overly lengthy as a typical New Yorker piece too!

Agreed on the gaiter issue for race boots. Note that the PG Black is unique among full cf boots for having a full-height gaiter.

speaking of gaiters, is anybody making a decent after-market gaiter?
shredded built in gaiters on the Alien RS, F1LT & F1 XT, just want to cut out the useless garbage that's left and stretch something reliable over the top

[Marshal Olson]

speaking of gaiters, is anybody making a decent after-market gaiter?
shredded built in gaiters on the Alien RS, F1LT & F1 XT, just want to cut out the useless garbage that's left and stretch something reliable over the top

Paging @concierge

When my raceborg gaiters give up the ghost at some point, I plan to buy replacement PG Mtn or Black gaiters and figure out how to make them work

[ktoor]

One friendly tip is that if you go full skimo boot, and plan to ski it with normal BC pants (ie not spandex) in boot top pow or deeper snow (where they thrive the most), be sure the gaiter comes up high enough to touch the upper cuff and that the boot can work with a full height liner (along with a bikini liner).

I have the original LaSpo Raceborg (which is absolutely fantastic), and the gaiter comes up JUUUUST high enough to work, and with very little modification (removed the foam upper and a small incision to the gaiter to open up a little more around the ankle), it accepts a full length liner wonderfully. I believe Scarpa Aliens are similar. I do not believe the current DNA nor the new Raceborg 2 fit these criteria however. This may not bother you, and if it doesn't no stress! YMMV.

Just stating it as something I navigated myself in going to a skimo boot arsenal and selling off all the 1000g+ clunkers in my fleet, haha.

nice thanks for the tip! i have some karpos skimo pants but dont want to be stuck wearing only those so good call.


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[Westcoaster]

How does the bmt94 hold up against the crop of newer narrower "light freeride" touring skis? Might have a line on a minty pair, but they're getting a little long in the tooth.

[riff]

If they are 176’s and you pass let me know!


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[turnfarmer]

Paging @concierge

When my raceborg gaiters give up the ghost at some point, I plan to buy replacement PG Mtn or Black gaiters and figure out how to make them work

This video at 2:45 shows how PG attaches gaiters. Looks like a loctite cyanoacrylate.

This- is a more flexible CA-

https://www.amazon.com/Boot-Fix-Shoe.../dp/B00Q3IDN5M

As is this.-https://www.amazon.com/Bob-Smith-Industries-BSI-118-IC-2000/dp/B0188IHONQ/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1KE1QCH17REFG&keywords=Bob+smith+r ubber&qid=1696706135&s=home-garden&sprefix=bob+smith+rubber%2Cgarden%2C188&sr= 1-1

These may work better on a Grilamid shell as typical CAs are very brittle. PG may get away with regulars as carbon is so stiff.

[fleaches]

How does the bmt94 hold up against the crop of newer narrower "light freeride" touring skis? Might have a line on a minty pair, but they're getting a little long in the tooth.

I got ahold of some bmt 94s last year and they really are the best all around touring ski I have been on. They just work really well across most snow conditions. There were several days last year where my partners were pretty much survival skiing and I was still in the fun zone on those skis. I feel like usually the question is "what currently produced ski is most similar to a bmt 94?" If I saw a minty pair I'd probably hoard them.

Only thing I don't like is that they are kinda heavy. Hoping to A/B with the HL BC 90 this winter and see if they can be unseated.

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[riff]

I’m trying to resist a full rocker HL ski right now, but they seem promising In this regard…


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[altacoup]

I got ahold of some bmt 94s last year and they really are the best all around touring ski I have been on. They just work really well across most snow conditions. There were several days last year where my partners were pretty much survival skiing and I was still in the fun zone on those skis. I feel like usually the question is "what currently produced ski is most similar to a bmt 94?" If I saw a minty pair I'd probably hoard them.

Only thing I don't like is that they are kinda heavy. Hoping to A/B with the HL BC 90 this winter and see if they can be unseated.

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Them being kind of heavy is why they performed better then your friends skis. One thing I’ve learned about light skis is that light and stiff is just a horrible combo. Unfortunately most companies think a high performance ski needs to be stiff (which is great with the appropriate materials) but a light stiff carbon ski is simply the worst ski possible and there’s a ton of them on the market.

[skis_the_trees]

Them being kind of heavy is why they performed better then your friends skis. One thing I’ve learned about light skis is that light and stiff is just a horrible combo. Unfortunately most companies think a high performance ski needs to be stiff (which is great with the appropriate materials) but a light stiff carbon ski is simply the worst ski possible and there’s a ton of them on the market.

Great summary that is often neglected. Light, carbon and appropriate flex (ie not too stiff) actually seems to work pretty well - ie Dynastar Mythic or BD Carbon Megawatt. I’m sure there are others too but those are my personal experience.


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[Benneke10]

Them being kind of heavy is why they performed better then your friends skis. One thing I’ve learned about light skis is that light and stiff is just a horrible combo. Unfortunately most companies think a high performance ski needs to be stiff (which is great with the appropriate materials) but a light stiff carbon ski is simply the worst ski possible and there’s a ton of them on the market.

Here here. I've tried most of the ~1kg skis on the market and my favorites are the Atomic UL series and the discontinued S/Lab X-Alp because you can actually flex them (at least in the ~170 lengths I've used).

And yes, the BMT 94 lives up to the hype.

[Westcoaster]

Them being kind of heavy is why they performed better then your friends skis. One thing I’ve learned about light skis is that light and stiff is just a horrible combo. Unfortunately most companies think a high performance ski needs to be stiff (which is great with the appropriate materials) but a light stiff carbon ski is simply the worst ski possible and there’s a ton of them on the market.

Reminds me of the old nunataqs and not hyper voiles. Never skiing them but they seemed like they slotted in this category. I bought a pair of ripstick 94 tours as a ~1600g mostly not carbon ski end of last year but have yet to ski them.

[Wetdog]

How does the bmt94 hold up against the crop of newer narrower "light freeride" touring skis? Might have a line on a minty pair, but they're getting a little long in the tooth.

Do it. You won’t regret it. I still ski mine all the time and they’re still very relevant compared to contemporary narrow skis. No one makes a continuous rocker ski that I know of under 100mm.


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[auvgeek]

No one makes a continuous rocker ski that I know of under 100mm.

WNDR Vital 98 comes in reverse camber. Heavy for this thread, but damp compared to light carbon skis.

https://wndr-alpine.com/products/vit...45438114824503

I’m bummed they shortened the radius from the Vital 100, but now it’s under 100 mm I guess.

[fleaches]

Them being kind of heavy is why they performed better then your friends skis. One thing I’ve learned about light skis is that light and stiff is just a horrible combo. Unfortunately most companies think a high performance ski needs to be stiff (which is great with the appropriate materials) but a light stiff carbon ski is simply the worst ski possible and there’s a ton of them on the market.

Fair enough. Will be interesting to see how the BC90s compare then since they are a bit lighter, but they also have more rocker so it's not really apples to apples.

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[alpinevibes]

So I picked up some Backland Pro CL's for $255 from L9. I've used Mercuries for about a decade and have been too cheap and stubborn to "go lighter." I've worn Hawx Ultra 130s at the resort for 7 years; Backlands fit similar enough.

Q #1: A skimo buddy says Backlands have a history of destroying people's heels? I have a haglunds deformity and have had some mild heel issues at times. Any thoughts?

Q #2: I'm curious about swapping the flimsy stock mesh booster strap for something a little more substantial and potentially a thicker liner down the road. Any recs on a strap upgrade that's not full-on Booster?

[riff]

Q #2: 18” XL Voile strap- take it off if you’re skiing casual, put it on to rage. Elastic properties like a booster. Also hugely handy to have in the pack regardless…


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[tang]

2nd on the XL Voile straps

[dub_xion]

+1 on the BMT 94. A lot of things came together, IMO, to make it ski the way it does, along with not cutting weight way down. Although I do think the BMT 90 is better on refrozen and steeps, with a bit more feedback and they like to be driven.

Backland 78 (not UL) is another example, 1200g @ 170cm. Super smooth, great grip, predictable. And wicked cheap. I am assuming they’re same as what used to be dubbed the Backland Descender. I just didn’t like the short (15m I think?) turning radius.

[alpinevibes]

Q #2: 18” XL Voile strap- take it off if you’re skiing casual, put it on to rage. Elastic properties like a booster. Also hugely handy to have in the pack regardless…


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Alright alright alright

[kamtron]

So I picked up some Backland Pro CL's for $255 from L9. I've used Mercuries for about a decade and have been too cheap and stubborn to "go lighter." I've worn Hawx Ultra 130s at the resort for 7 years; Backlands fit similar enough.

Q #1: A skimo buddy says Backlands have a history of destroying people's heels? I have a haglunds deformity and have had some mild heel issues at times. Any thoughts?

Q #2: I'm curious about swapping the flimsy stock mesh booster strap for something a little more substantial and potentially a thicker liner down the road. Any recs on a strap upgrade that's not full-on Booster?

That's a great deal. I used to like my backlands pretty well. However, the liners are pretty thin and the heel pocket is big, so you can get a lot of lift and thus blisters down there. I guess at this point you should try to use them. They are a lot flimsier than what you're used to, so there will be an adjustment period getting used to light boot style skiing.

[Tjaardbreeuwer]

That's a great deal. I used to like my backlands pretty well. However, the liners are pretty thin and the heel pocket is big, so you can get a lot of lift and thus blisters down there. I guess at this point you should try to use them. They are a lot flimsier than what you're used to, so there will be an adjustment period getting used to light boot style skiing.

I got mine (the current version, no Boa) last season, and among other things, used them for a 5 days of spring time hut to hut skiing .
(ie socks worn multiple days, warm, sweaty weather, and back to back days), no blisters. But, that’s so individual, I don’t think there is much to say for a certain boot model.

I do have to say, I use mine with an aftermarket Palau liners, and with the super thin neoprene ankle covers, because I have skinny ankles and the ankle bones get sore quickly too.

[alpinevibes]

I do have to say, I use mine with an aftermarket Palau liners, and with the super thin neoprene ankle covers, because I have skinny ankles and the ankle bones get sore quickly too.

Yeah a beefier liner is tempting but then I guess the value starts to degrade as they become $400 boots, unless I swap now and sell the stock liners.