Ask the experts

[jm2e]

All modern bikes are amazing. And you get used to the bike you ride repeatedly.
So yea, it’ll be amazing when you’re riding well, and you’ll blame the bike when you have a hard time doing the stuff you’ve always had a hard time with. But then you’ll drop a bunch of coin on cranks and a stem and be convinced they cure cancer.


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[volklpowdermaniac]

ha! fair

from reading a bunch about mullets the last few days - it seems having a low stack height is pretty important yes? otherwise you feel high and pushed back by the big wheel up front?

[toast2266]

ha! fair

from reading a bunch about mullets the last few days - it seems having a low stack height is pretty important yes? otherwise you feel high and pushed back by the big wheel up front?

Stack height, like many geometry measurements, is largely down to personal preference. But if the front end of a bike is low, you can make it taller with stem spacers and higher rise bars. If it's high, you can't really make it lower.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Stack height, like many geometry measurements, is largely down to personal preference. But if the front end of a bike is low, you can make it taller with stem spacers and higher rise bars. If it's high, you can't really make it lower.

But any reason to think a mullet bike would need a lower stack height than a straight 29er?

[toast2266]

But any reason to think a mullet bike would need a lower stack height than a straight 29er?

Not that I can think of.

Only thing I can think of is if you were trying to mullet a bike that was originally 27.5" front and rear, a lower stack height would make that conversion a bit more manageable (but still a bit wonky in a few other ways).

[Andeh]

But any reason to think a mullet bike would need a lower stack height than a straight 29er?

The cop out answer is, it depends. I've been riding a mullet bike for almost 2 years now. I feel like due to the way that the different wheel sizes want to carve different arcs in the turns, they're sensitive to forward/rear weight balance. On top of that, they typically have short chainstays (since you don't need long ones for a 27.5 rear wheel). So I could see a scenario where if you had a really tall stack height, it would effectively push the rider back a bit, which would unweight the front tire, causing a feeling of the front tire pushing, and generally exacerbating the wheel arc differential. Likewise, I found my mullet bike felt better once I reeled in the head angle... when it was down in the low 63s, it was pretty tough to manage the front wheel weighting. When I got it back to just over 64, I felt like it was easier to keep the right fore/aft balance. Whenever I start hanging off the back, it really starts to feel squirrelly. It feels best in a really centered position with a good amount of pressure on the front end, and aggressive leaning in the corners.

In Santa Cruz's setup guide for the Bronson they make some comments along a similar vein.

[singlesline]

If it's high, you can't really make it lower.

But you can *try*!


I assume someone has experimented with making reverse riser bars (that drop down, but still provide the right up/back sweep at the grips)...and the fact we don't see any tells us they suck?
Although I can't imagine many people wanting to be lower than a flat-bar and a negative rise stem would get you. Maybe in some weird world where a very short rider wants an 29er XC bike with extra fork travel?

[singlesline]

I found a reverse riser (sinker?) bar. It looks dumb.



And on this demo bike, I don't think it even delivers anything you couldn't achieve with less spacers and a different stem.

[toast2266]

I found a reverse riser (sinker?) bar. It looks dumb.



And on this demo bike, I don't think it even delivers anything you couldn't achieve with less spacers and a different stem.

The "sinker" bar with 50mm of spacers under the stem is kind of hilarious.

[rideit]

Schrodinger’s Handlebar

[skaredshtles]

But you can *try*!

Somebody deserves a:

[J. Barron DeJong]

Somebody deserves a:

[skaredshtles]

May have been even DUMBER back then...

[XXX-er]

Its completely dumb except for the fact Tomac was winning everything in site with drop bars and ever body was running flat bars

personaly I duno how anyone even ride a bike without 800mm bars ?

[nick_B10]

I assume someone has experimented with making reverse riser bars (that drop down, but still provide the right up/back sweep at the grips)...and the fact we don't see any tells us they suck?
Although I can't imagine many people wanting to be lower than a flat-bar and a negative rise stem would get you. Maybe in some weird world where a very short rider wants an 29er XC bike with extra fork travel?

That is not uncommon on the XC world cup circuit. Fro example Nino Schurter runs a one piece bar stem with drop in both the bars and the stems. https://www.pinkbike.com/photo/22113871/

[Bushwacka]

I found a reverse riser (sinker?) bar. It looks dumb.



And on this demo bike, I don't think it even delivers anything you couldn't achieve with less spacers and a different stem.

I mean I guess one way to shorten reach by having the stem on top of the steer while still keeping the handle bars lower.

[Dantheman]

Santa Cruz nerds:

What are the real world differences between the '18/'19-era Bronson and Nomad/Strega? On paper it looks like 10 mm of travel and not much else. Geo is almost identical.

[Phall]

20mm. Nomad is a 170f/r bike from that vintage, Bronson 160f/150r Nomad front center is a little longer, Bronson slightly steeper and steeper sta. I rode a nomad of that vintage and while they are similar, the Bronson is going to have a much more “trail” feel and the nomad is going to feel much more “pedal-able dh/mini fr bike”


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[Falcon3]

Did we decide what Shimano 12s derailleur was the least likely to have the cage made of mush?

SLX mech - 7 weeks old, already is bent hardcore. I can put a teeny bit of hand pressure on the cage, release it, and the mech will shift all fucked up from prior. I’m having a hell of a time getting it to shift anywhere near ok. The fucking cage acts like it’s made of butter, definitely a weaker metal than I’ve ever seen a cage made of before. And yeah I get it’s longer for 12s but the upper jockey pulley shouldn’t be this easy to pull out of alignment with literally one finger. Fuck.

[volklpowdermaniac]

dumb question - when you change only the stroke length of a shock - same eye to eye, does it affect geometry or just the travel?

[Dantheman]

20mm. Nomad is a 170f/r bike from that vintage, Bronson 160f/150r Nomad front center is a little longer, Bronson slightly steeper and steeper sta. I rode a nomad of that vintage and while they are similar, the Bronson is going to have a much more “trail” feel and the nomad is going to feel much more “pedal-able dh/mini fr bike”


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Thanks. How much pedaling efficiency does the Nomad give up? I'm looking at a Bronson and Strega frame as a do-it-all for the kiddo (both XS). Price is about the same for both, though the Strega looks to be in better condition and includes a few extras that make it a better deal (GX crankset and Code brakes).

dumb question - when you change only the stroke length of a shock - same eye to eye, does it affect geometry or just the travel?

Just travel. How much losing that travel affects the overall ride depends on how linear vs. progressive the end of the stroke is on your frame, with linear being better.

[toast2266]

Just travel. How much losing that travel affects the overall ride depends on how linear vs. progressive the end of the stroke is on your frame, with linear being better.

With the nitpicky caveat that once sagged, the geo will be a little different since the travel is different.

[toast2266]

Did we decide what Shimano 12s derailleur was the least likely to have the cage made of mush?

SLX mech - 7 weeks old, already is bent hardcore. I can put a teeny bit of hand pressure on the cage, release it, and the mech will shift all fucked up from prior. I’m having a hell of a time getting it to shift anywhere near ok. The fucking cage acts like it’s made of butter, definitely a weaker metal than I’ve ever seen a cage made of before. And yeah I get it’s longer for 12s but the upper jockey pulley shouldn’t be this easy to pull out of alignment with literally one finger. Fuck.

As best I can tell, XTR rear derailleurs are the only ones that will not immediately bend.

[Andeh]

dumb question - when you change only the stroke length of a shock - same eye to eye, does it affect geometry or just the travel?

Technically it will affect geometry a little bit, since you'll end up running a different pressure / spring rate to get to the new adjusted 30% sag point. So if you long stroke, it'll probably be a hair slacker, short stroke a hair steeper.

[volklpowdermaniac]

Technically it will affect geometry a little bit, since you'll end up running a different pressure / spring rate to get to the new adjusted 30% sag point. So if you long stroke, it'll probably be a hair slacker, short stroke a hair steeper.

Thanks mate!