Ask the experts

[Andeh]

Larger diameter and thicker rotors are probably the cheapest option. Throw on some 200mm HS2s. You'll need some new mounting brackets too if you don't have spares laying around, so you're looking at like $63/rotor + $20/bracket or about $160 total.

When the new pads wear out, replace them with MTX Red or Gold pads - they will have more bite than the OEM SRAM ones. That's maybe $50 for a set.

If that still doesn't work, then find some takeoff Code RSCs. Level T brakes are pretty weak - that's what came on my dirt jumper lol. But you're looking at like $250+ for a set of used good brakes.

[Beaver]

Finned brake pads help a ton with brake fade. Bigger rotors. Ice tech rotors. Brake less.

[El Chupacabra]

YMMV, but I strongly prefer Shimano brakes over anything made by SRAM. Level brakes have the stopping power of BB5 cables, IMHO.

I'd look for any Shimano hydraulic brakes at Deore or higher, and sell the Level on Craigslist. Keep the centerline rotors, those are fine. 4-piston Deore are the strongest/cheapest setup you'll find.

[jamal]

The metal pads are way more consistent across a wider temp range.

[nickwm21]

I put Miles Racing metal pads on my Maguras and I’ve been impressed with their stopping power. $25 and they are turquoise…


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[Dantheman]

Pony up for new brakes. Trying to improve Level Ts is an exercise in turd polishing and throwing good money after bad.

[toast2266]

While new brakes are obviously the best option, most brakes don't come with rotors these days. So start by getting bigger rotors, because you're gonna be buying those either way about it. If bigger rotors solve the problem, then great. If they don't, then buy new brakes to go with your new rotors. Buy Shimanos if you like your brake lever to randomly pull to the bar, or buy any other brake on the market if you don't like that. Hayes seem like the best option these days.

[Boissal]

While new brakes are obviously the best option, most brakes don't come with rotors these days. So start by getting bigger rotors, because you're gonna be buying those either way about it. If bigger rotors solve the problem, then great. If they don't, then buy new brakes to go with your new rotors. Buy Shimanos if you like your brake lever to randomly pull to the bar, or buy any other brake on the market if you don't like that. Hayes seem like the best option these days.

You are militantly against Shimano brakes aren't you? I'm getting close to 5000 miles with XT brakes across 3 different bikes and never once have I experienced wandering bite points. The ones on my Occam went 2100 miles without a bleed and when I finally decided to freshen them up it was mostly out of embarrassment for having gone so long without doing anything to them. Performance was still 100%. Off the top of my head I can think of a dozen friends with Shimano brakes who have nothing bad to say about them. Ms Boissal is on XTs as well and if her brakes were pulling to the bar I'd quickly end up getting flogged with the brake lines.

Come to think of it the only people I know who gripe about Shimanos have moved on to riding Codes which they bleed damn near weekly and finish every bit of DH over 1000' with the lever to the bar. Amusingly enough they swear by their shite brakes and constantly tell me Shimano is going to kill me because that one time BITD something something. Well, I assume that's what they yell my way as I smoke their slow asses on the down...

Counterpoint to Hayes: buddy just installed a set which was leaking out the reservoir right away. He couldn't get a clean bleed for the life of him as everything seemed to be oozing fluid. He's mechanically inclined so I don't think he's 100% to blame. He went to Magura after laughing when I asked if he'd put Codes back on his bike.

Pick a brake, be a dick about it?

[toast2266]

You are militantly against Shimano brakes aren't you?

You know it!

I have a Codes, Guides, MT7's, older Hayes, FSA's, and Shimano brakes on various bikes in my garage at the moment. Guess which ones are currently pulling to the bar after relatively little use? Guess which ones barely require any maintenance after waaaaay more use? (hint: it's every single brake I own that isn't labelled shimano). And that's not a singular experience. I've probably owned 20 sets of shimano brakes over the years, and I think maybe 1 or 2 of them worked consistently.

When there are a bunch of good brakes on the market, I have no idea why anyone would ever pick Shimanos with all of their very well documented problems.

[Dee Hubbs]

I also experienced a wander bite point on my Shimano's..... Last week was the first and only time in 10 years of maintaining my own Shimano brakes that I have experienced this.

[XXX-er]

cuz they came on the bike i bought ?

The shimano's worked fine and only needed 1 bleed which worked, The guides on the next bike work fine

the only brakes that ever truly sucked were 1st gen Hayes

[skaredshtles]

<snip>
the only brakes that ever truly sucked were 1st gen Hayes

And even those were light years ahead of the V-brakes we all were running...

[XXX-er]

I kacked 3 hayes hydraulic hoses one of them with the bike on top of the car in transit, I started taking a bleed kit on weekend trips

Talk about a wandering bite point/ rubbing pads/ bent rotors but that was the 1st gen

I went from running hayes to running BB7 for a couple years which were totally trouble free and had as much power but didnt really modulate well

and then we were into the next gen

[El Chupacabra]

I will happily take any and all Shimano hydraulics that anyone here wants to get rid of, especially if they're 4-piston. SLX, XT, Zee, Saint - send them my way.

Also, FWIW for cheap rotors - on one bike, I'm using a set of Avid G2 from Amazon, which I'm pretty sure are knockoffs. Got a pair of 203s and a pair of 180s for something like $20 per pair, they're staying true and stopping fine - with Shimano Saints. So there's a potential source for cheap stopping power.

[rideit]

I also experienced a wander bite point on my Shimano's..... Last week was the first and only time in 10 years of maintaining my own Shimano brakes that I have experienced this.

Whenever I have remotely experienced this, it was the result of an incomplete/impatient bleed. If that is the same as ‘wandering bite point’, which I haven’t experienced while actually riding.

[Dee Hubbs]

I’ve had never felt it before, and have read so much about it, and always wondered if I was just not sensitive to it, and that’s why I had never “felt” it.
But last week on a long and rough sustained decent I actually experienced it for the first time.
I assume a micro bubble got bounced to a spot in the lever that cause the bit point to momentarily change mid breaking, my levers pulled slightly further to the bar before biting, I let off the brakes and on the next pull the lever was back to where is always has bitten (bite-ed?)
I did a quick funnel burb that night, the first maintenance since switching pads in June, and no issues since.
I’ll stay on team Shimano!

[bagtagley]

I will happily take any and all Shimano hydraulics that anyone here wants to get rid of, especially if they're 4-piston. SLX, XT, Zee, Saint - send them my way.

Shit, for a price. You Shimano loyal weirdos are the reason they’re so easy to unload.

[XXX-er]

I’ve had never felt it before, and have read so much about it, and always wondered if I was just not sensitive to it, and that’s why I had never “felt” it.
But last week on a long and rough sustained decent I actually experienced it for the first time.
I assume a micro bubble got bounced to a spot in the lever that cause the bit point to momentarily change mid breaking, my levers pulled slightly further to the bar before biting, I let off the brakes and on the next pull the lever was back to where is always has bitten (bite-ed?)
I did a quick funnel burb that night, the first maintenance since switching pads in June, and no issues since.
I’ll stay on team Shimano!

how are the Shimano's you run into on road bikes ? I read a quote last week that claimed nobody in road is running Sram unless they get paid to

I wonder how much of it is people who have trouble doing a proper bleed, I would get lever to bar with my last set of Shimano for the first squeez after riding on its side in the truck, I finaly did a bleed and it was all good till I sold the bike

[skaredshtles]

I kacked 3 hayes hydraulic hoses one of them with the bike on top of the car in transit, I started taking a bleed kit on weekend trips

Talk about a wandering bite point/ rubbing pads/ bent rotors but that was the 1st gen

My 1st hydro experience was on a 2001 Giant NRS that I bought in 2002 that came with Hayes 9's. Ran those Hayes until 2010 when I upgraded to a new bike - and I never bled them or did anything other maintenance than replace pads. Those 9's *did* finally crap out around 2018, and I replaced them with some ANCIENT Avid Elixirs, which I believe are still on it.

[Dee Hubbs]

how are the Shimano's you run into on road bikes ? I read a quote last week that claimed nobody in road is running Sram unless they get paid to

I wonder how much of it is people who have trouble doing a proper bleed, I would get lever to bar with my last set of Shimano for the first squeez after riding on its side in the truck, I finally did a bleed and it was all good till I sold the bike

I have 12s Ultegra Di2 on a personal bike that have been 100% since initial setup/bleed.
One of my pro gravel racers has GRX Di2 on their bike, and I change pads a lot on their bike. I have lever position and bite position exact measurements for them, I probably change pads and bleed them 3-4 times a year and they stay perfect between bleeds (or I'd hear about it, they are finicky about any micro adjustments). They also had Ultegra 11s Di2 on their previous bike with out issues.

The road levers just take a bit more patience to bleed, a lot more rotating the bike in the work stand to ensure the bubbles get out.
I have a client with SRAM road/gravel set up, they are no different that the Shimano's, just need to take your time to ensure you get all the bubbles out.

[rideit]

I’ve had never felt it before, and have read so much about it, and always wondered if I was just not sensitive to it, and that’s why I had never “felt” it.
But last week on a long and rough sustained decent I actually experienced it for the first time.
I assume a micro bubble got bounced to a spot in the lever that cause the bit point to momentarily change mid breaking, my levers pulled slightly further to the bar before biting, I let off the brakes and on the next pull the lever was back to where is always has bitten (bite-ed?)
I did a quick funnel burb that night, the first maintenance since switching pads in June, and no issues since.
I’ll stay on team Shimano!

I want to make a contraption that ‘connects’ an impact wrench to the rear caliper (and levers?) in order to vibrate those damn last micro bubbles out! I think I’ll just try it gently with a rag. I may be on to something!

[east or bust]

Is there an outdoor temp you wouldn’t want to store your bike below? Assuming it would be sheltered from direct precip


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[XXX-er]

My 1st hydro experience was on a 2001 Giant NRS that I bought in 2002 that came with Hayes 9's. Ran those Hayes until 2010 when I upgraded to a new bike - and I never bled them or did anything other maintenance than replace pads. Those 9's *did* finally crap out around 2018, and I replaced them with some ANCIENT Avid Elixirs, which I believe are still on it.

My understanding is that the 9's were even worse than the mags but its all anecdotal right

I also had an NRS built up from frame, thats what I put BB7's on, it was a good bike, a HT until you need suspension

[Roxtar]

You know it!

I have a Codes, Guides, MT7's, older Hayes, FSA's, and Shimano brakes on various bikes in my garage at the moment. Guess which ones are currently pulling to the bar after relatively little use? Guess which ones barely require any maintenance after waaaaay more use? (hint: it's every single brake I own that isn't labelled shimano). And that's not a singular experience. I've probably owned 20 sets of shimano brakes over the years, and I think maybe 1 or 2 of them worked consistently.

When there are a bunch of good brakes on the market, I have no idea why anyone would ever pick Shimanos with all of their very well documented problems.

I've used XT or XTRs on every bike Mrs Roxtar and myself have owned for the last 7-8 years. That adds up to 7 bikes. I have never had a single issue anything like you've described.
I've worked on a lot of buddy's Avid/Srams, though.
In fact, Mrs Roxtar's brakes are the most impressive. She has tiny hands and, as such, her levers are set so close to the bars that they lock up juuuuuust before bar contact. They haven't moved.

[toast2266]

My 1st hydro experience was on a 2001 Giant NRS that I bought in 2002 that came with Hayes 9's. Ran those Hayes until 2010 when I upgraded to a new bike - and I never bled them or did anything other maintenance than replace pads. Those 9's *did* finally crap out around 2018, and I replaced them with some ANCIENT Avid Elixirs, which I believe are still on it.

The 9's lasted forever as long as you didn't get them hot. I still have a set lying around that was on my dirt jumper. They're 20 years old and they still work fine. Of course, they make zero power and if you get them hot then they go to shit. But for a dirt jumper they were fine.