Student Loan Forgiveness

[J. Barron DeJong]

party it up for four years and work shit job for the next 10-20 means you are in the shit income bracket for life most likely.

Right. They’re all gonna game the system by, uh, fucking up the rest of their life?

[californiagrown]

I guess one could look at student loan forgiveness as subsidized college tuition, just late. Im all for that. Its just the principle of reneging on and agreement and being bailed out that bothers me. not the actual bailing out.

[Cisco Kid]

Freedom to express your opinion is a good thing. So it offends your sensibilities. And I should care because?

[californiagrown]

So it offends your sensibilities. And I should care because?

Correct, and i dont why you would care about any of my sensibilities, emotions, or opinions?

[Mustonen]

I guess one could look at student loan forgiveness as subsidized college tuition, just late. Im all for that. Its just the principle of reneging on and agreement and being bailed out that bothers me. not the actual bailing out.

What do you mean, reneged? Some did, I’m sure, but the vast majority didn’t do any reneging. They didn’t get bailed out. They just got a subsidy.

So since your principle is imagined, I assume that means you’re actually good with it?

[::: :::]

[not directed at any specific poster here, more generally]

of all the shit to bitch about...helping middle income americans to try to thrive by throwing them a bone just isn't the problem some people are trying to make it

people aren't happy until everyone is miserable

[J. Barron DeJong]

I guess one could look at student loan forgiveness as subsidized college tuition…

That’s how I choose to view it.

…Its just the principle of reneging on and agreement and being bailed out that bothers me. not the actual bailing out.

The arguments that they had an agreement and knew what they were getting into reminds me of this:

[Cisco Kid]

Why am I interested in your opinion? Only to understand what it is and if my opinion runs counter to yours, to think about how to use logic to change it of course.

[simple]

Yet another federal check offered in the past 2 years me and my wife will not see. I'm super upset I'm wiping my tears with $100 bills. I wish I made different choices so I was poor and got assistance so wealthy people could tell me I don't deserve it. The potential for socialism terrifies me because the federal government should work just like a small business and they don't get hand outs...well except for those GOP PPP loans that were designed to be forgiven. Dammit who should I be mad at now! Help me blame someone!

[californiagrown]

What do you mean, reneged? Some did, I’m sure, but the vast majority didn’t do any reneging. They didn’t get bailed out. They just got a subsidy.

So since your principle is imagined, I assume that means you’re actually good with it?

I disagree, they got bailed out. To me, a subsidy would be similar to a scholarship where would know ahead of time you are getting the money and make decisions based on that. this is people getting bailed out of a shitty situation they put themselves in. Its semantics, because the end result is the same. Its like if you were told at the start of teh year you would have to run a marathon for your life in 6months, so you trained your ass off and sacrificed a ton to get in incredible shape and then on the day of the race were told its actually only a 1 mile fun run and everyone gets a medal and to live. youd probably be a little salty at the fatties who did nothing to train, even though everyone is better off at the end of the day.

And yes, im good with it. I support more subsidization of college tuition (along with a serious dumbing down of the college campus amenity arms race that has ballooned the cost of college), and this does something similar on the whole.

[Cisco Kid]

Weak analogy IMO. Well trained guy got well trained AND a medal. Or he could feel pissed. It's a choice.

[Hood26]

Finished off my loans about 8 years ago. I had a Pell Grant. Should I apply?

[The AD]

I guess one could look at student loan forgiveness as subsidized college tuition, just late.

Right, and if that's the case why not do something so the students wouldn't need to take out the loans in the first place? Hopefully that's the end goal and the loan forgiveness is just a first step down that path.

[MontuckyFried]

Yo. If your student loans aren't worth it for YOU to pay off, then maybe they aren't worth it for me to help pay off.

It does seem a kick in the nuts to the taxpayers who never went to college. Welfare for the successful? Appears to be at first glance.

Also, didn't Nancy make a big deal about the President not having the authority or power to do such a thing?

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[huckbucket]

[not directed at any specific poster here, more generally]

of all the shit to bitch about...helping middle income americans to try to thrive by throwing them a bone just isn't the problem some people are trying to make it

people aren't happy until everyone is miserable

It's actually the power of free shit. If your neighbor is getting free shit and you aren't getting free, all the shit is gonna hit the fan.

[LongShortLong]

why are people obsessed with moral hazard

Same reason I think more banks should have failed, and execs should have spent time in prison. Maybe some board members and major shareholders too.

I like incentives aligned to produce useful outcomes. More sosh and psych majors working at the fulfillment center is a poor outcome for them and society. If loan criteria align with expected outcomes, it helps the "ignorant" 17 year-old make better decisions. Want to train for a job that can't pay back the loan? Sorry, even with the government subsidy, we have no banks willing to make that loan.

I was also pointing out that some people who have decided against loans should reconsider in light of proposed changes.

[Name Redacted]

Finished off my loans about 8 years ago. I had a Pell Grant. Should I apply?

Been wondering the same thing. And why is it tied to the Pell Grant where Pell Grant Recipients get $20k forgiven whereas non-Pell Grant recipients only get $10k?

[Mazderati]

It's absolute disgust at the thought of anyone close to being a peer having more. Especially someone ruled unworthy by self-appointed arbiters of fairness.

[Supermoon]

The White House Twitter account is calling out critics with how much of their PPP loans they got forgiven. Brutal.

https://twitter.com/whitehouse/statu...Put0JeH-tnyHzg

[dunfree]

Same reason I think more banks should have failed, and execs should have spent time in prison. Maybe some board members and major shareholders too.

I like incentives aligned to produce useful outcomes. More sosh and psych majors working at the fulfillment center is a poor outcome for them and society. If loan criteria align with expected outcomes, it helps the "ignorant" 17 year-old make better decisions. Want to train for a job that can't pay back the loan? Sorry, even with the government subsidy, we have no banks willing to make that loan.

I was also pointing out that some people who have decided against loans should reconsider in light of proposed changes.

again, student loan debt isn’t dischargeable. If it were the lenders might have an incentive not to loan to worthless degrees. Incentives work both ways, not just leaving the poorer party the bag holder. You are arguing for the zombie status quo, not resolution and moving on. And your arguments for talking out loans are specious bullshit, working for $15/hr for 20 years ain’t a good move.

pell grant = poor, you dumbfuck that never learned to read source material before or after whatever worthless degree you got

[grinch]

Id imagine that itd help more than a few people finish their degree and/or invest in themselves and advance their education more than they would otherwise. In both cases , on average, theyll pay that 10k back several times in future tax from their now increased wage

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[LongShortLong]

again, student loan debt isn’t dischargeable. If it were the lenders might have an incentive not to loan to worthless degrees. Incentives work both ways, not just leaving the poorer party the bag holder. You are arguing for the zombie status quo, not resolution and moving on. And your arguments for talking out loans are specious bullshit, working for $15/hr for 20 years ain’t a good move.

pell grant = poor, you dumbfuck that never learned to read source material before or after whatever worthless degree you got

You are projecting

[doebedoe]

Been wondering the same thing. And why is it tied to the Pell Grant where Pell Grant Recipients get $20k forgiven whereas non-Pell Grant recipients only get $10k?

Because it's an administratively easy way to target historically poor individuals and families. You have to be making <$65k household income to be eligible currently (way less 10-20 years ago.)

Have some Pell grant individuals ended up making bank? Sure. But those people are far far less likely to have intergenerational wealth and opportunity than those who didn't get Pells.

Could you target low-wealth individuals another way? Sure. But I bet the administration would be a much larger PITA and people hate administrative fuckery.

[BCMtnHound]

Id imagine that itd help more than a few people finish their degree and/or invest in themselves and advance their education more than they would otherwise. In both cases , on average, theyll pay that 10k back several times in future tax from their now increased wage

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Ya but once a person improves their income potentials in America, they don’t pay taxes, remember? Gotta keep as many folk under-educated as possible but living just above the poverty line so that those tax coffers remain full! A side benefit, they’re easier to manipulate to vote against their interests in the greatest democracy on earth!

[SumJongGuy]

End of the day rich people want every advantage they can muster.. especially using money to give their kids big advantages in the job market over poor peoples' kids. The notion of free or reduced cost college for the less privileged...... makes the less privileged MORE privileged and the more privileged less privileged. That's really where half of the outrage is coming from.. The rest is coming from the white trash boot lickers who never would have made it in college even if it was free for them too.. Now they're going to be at a disadvantage to poor people who are smart enough to actually finish college now that they can afford to.