Ukraine

[Cono Este]

In case you haven't been paying attention Ukraine has been digging up mass graves of civilians tortured, murdered, and desecrated by Russian troops. After they were found out, the Russians now use mobile incinerators to cover up not only their war own war crimes but also to hide their own troop losses. This is the evil you think Ukraine should have surrendered to in the beginning.

Well, we’re not sending Russia money and rooting for them are we?

And in case you haven’t noticed, they do things differently over there. I said that in the first 10 pages, Slavs fight war like we would never fight in the west.

You want to bet your reputation and conscience on something coming out 5, 10 yrs from now, go ahead.

I’ll keep saying this. Biden has done the right thing, but if it were up to you guys you’d put the Arizona national guard under zelenskys control.

[MultiVerse]

I’You want to bet your reputation and conscience on something coming out 5, 10 yrs from now, go ahead.

As opposed to the way you bet your reputation and conscience by continuously repeating pro-Putin talking points or the way you called for Ukraine to surrender?

As I've said repeatedly, I'll stake my reputation on the fact Ukraine will need a lot postwar support to achieve political stability due to the fact Russia is systematically trying to destroy the country as secondary goal if they can't occupy it outright.

[MultiVerse]

[Dugin drift]


It's interesting that western analysis regularly refers to Dugin as having a "spiritual" or "mystic" component while he seems to ignore any such thing. Not saying the analysis is wrong, but it may just be that we explain his obvious delusions as "spiritual" because he expresses them with such ardent faith-like certainty when it might also be attributable to the strength of his commitment to "truth" that doesn't need to be factual if he believes it.

Note his list does not mention religion, faith or spirituality at all. Is that inherently included as "culture?" Is his audience atheist "elites?" Many ways to interpret that.

That he plans to bring science into alignment with Putinism is pretty telling, though.

Like Steve Bannon in America or Cui Zhiyuan in China, Dugin is trying to come up with alternatives to the current liberal order and unfortunately the best they can come up with is populism and hyper-nationalism.

[LongShortLong]

Like Steve Bannon in America or Cui Zhiyuan in China, Dugin is trying to come up with alternatives to the current liberal order and unfortunately the best they can come up with is populism and hyper-nationalism.

Yeah... How do we get these "thought leaders" to read each other's writings? The world has tried imperialism and ultranationalism, and found them unsatisfactory. Could we put Steve Bannon, Cui Zhiyuan, Dugin, and the like in a room? Not let them out until they convince each other their narratives are false. Or decide who among them is right - e.g. if there's a convincing argument we should all follow DPRK's Sung dynasty... we'd all be convinced and could live in peace, occasionally hungry.

I know it's not that simple, and the thought leaders are filling a social need.

[neufox47]

Well, we’re not sending Russia money and rooting for them are we?

And in case you haven’t noticed, they do things differently over there. I said that in the first 10 pages, Slavs fight war like we would never fight in the west.

You want to bet your reputation and conscience on something coming out 5, 10 yrs from now, go ahead.

I’ll keep saying this. Biden has done the right thing, but if it were up to you guys you’d put the Arizona national guard under zelenskys control.

No one has suggested we treat them like the 51st state. No one has suggested we get directly involved. You create this narrative because you can’t argue against what most of us are saying, US / European aid should continue and increase.

I’m not so infantile as to require Ukraine to be perfect in every sense to receive or deserve support. You take this position on everything whether it is politics or the war in Ukraine. You spout a constant stream of purity tests and what-aboutism that results in you seemingly believing in nothing but cynicism and your own victimhood.

[LongShortLong]

Thank you for actually listening to the interview.

I do realize what Ukraine is up against, but lies are fucking lies. And before kids go over there, they need to hear the truth. As you said, it’s a warfare none of our vets have ever seen.

You guys have had zero tolerance for anything expect treating them like the 51st state it’s ridiculous. A smart person would distance themselves just a little bit in case down the road we start digging up mass graves or something, or a US made stinger end up downing an airliner 5 yrs from now. In the last interview I posted the guy said weapons were missing and in this interview they said they were being issued crap.

You guys can thank me later.

Thanks. Do you think most posters are naive? I think most people are aware that every human endeavor is a shitshow. War is no different. I think most people accept that most truths include lies. People are people; some of us lie and cheat. The simple truth is Russia started a war of choice, and it's fucking brutal. The actual truth is complex but doesn't change the simple truth.

On the naivety question - it does seem sometimes that many people are naive (not so much TRG posters). Many work defined jobs with assigned tasks implementing the same known solution repeatedly. It could be that these people are naive. I am somewhat blind to this as everyone around me is overeducated, or young and on the path to be overeducated. My people always ask "why?" (Socratic questioning) Are most of the general population simpletons?

[jono]

Yeah... How do we get these "thought leaders" to read each other's writings? The world has tried imperialism and ultranationalism, and found them unsatisfactory. Could we put Steve Bannon, Cui Zhiyuan, Dugin, and the like in a room? Not let them out until they convince each other their narratives are false. Or decide who among them is right - e.g. if there's a convincing argument we should all follow DPRK's Sung dynasty... we'd all be convinced and could live in peace, occasionally hungry.

I know it's not that simple, and the thought leaders are filling a social need.

I can't speak to the rest at present, but I expect if you put them all in a room Dugin would convince them all (or perhaps they already believe) that "multi-polarism" justifies anything necessary to oppose The Hegemon. Genocide, war, famine and disease are nothing in the face of losing the national pride that comes from killing instead of negotiating. They'd all clap each other on the back and retire to their own countries to rile up the masses for ultra-nationalism and the war it eventually produces.

They would probably all expect to fight each other eventually, too, but they're happy to kick that can down the road. Sure, this has literally never worked out for anyone in recorded history, but that just means they could be the first!

[Cono Este]

As opposed to the way you bet your reputation and conscience by continuously repeating pro-Putin talking points or the way you called for Ukraine to surrender?

As I've said repeatedly, I'll stake my reputation on the fact Ukraine will need a lot postwar support to achieve political stability due to the fact Russia is systematically trying to destroy the country as secondary goal if they can't occupy it outright.

You call my talking points whatever you want, I wouldn’t unconditionally support England if Russia invaded them, and I’m an English citizen. Fuckers in here calling people cowards and traitors when they should look in the mirror. I don’t trust anyone to not put their interests before ours.

[MultiVerse]

To be fair, not all of your talking points were explicitly pro-Putin. You also provided first rate military analysis like arguing Ukrainians could never master advanced weapons systems such as HIMARS because the owners manuals are written in English.

I mean, Ukraine is one of the few countries with an advanced aerospace industry. They do full cycle design, production, and operation of advanced civil, military, and cargo aircraft. They also design and manufacture advanced space technology. Ukrainian Zenith rockets are among the best space launch vehicles in existence.

[LongShortLong]

I realize most of you tools like being another cog in the wheel of propaganda, which is the true definition of traitor. But foreign fighters are returning from Ukraine and reporting something quite different than you internet board generals are. Fucking idiots.

Another willybeatscancer video with an Aussie foreign fighter. Says there are sending foreign fighters in and holding ukranians back. Shitty medical where you have to bribe nurses etc.

https://youtu.be/oTD_c57EWck

So, as a self appointed armchair general, I watched that. Ukraine sounds more organized than I thought it was. Or is this the pro-Ukrainian propaganda you speak of? Aussie guy has seen all the shit, civilians getting their limbs blown off, Russia's indiscriminate shelling, and Ukraine's shortage of armor (shortage of everything). He says fuck Russia, go Ukraine, and the western governments should do more. At the end he advocates for western logistics in-country. I'm sorry he lost his hand, but eternally grateful for folks like him who stand for our freedom. I also appreciate that he's very thoughtful about the complexities of war and why we must defend Ukraine.

Aussie speaks like "you internet board generals," so maybe the TRGs has a good read on the war. Did we watch the same video?

[PB]

To be fair, not all of your talking points were explicitly pro-Putin. You also provided first rate military analysis like arguing Ukrainians could never master advanced weapons systems such as HIMARS because the owners manuals are written in English.

I mean, Ukraine is one of the few countries with an advanced aerospace industry. They do full cycle design, production, and operation of advanced civil, military, and cargo aircraft. They also design and manufacture advanced space technology. Ukrainian Zenith rockets are among the best space launch vehicles in existence.

Ouch. Here, have a mint while I quietly, slowly shove this rapier through your liver.
Well played, Sir.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Friendly reminder that RUS has no interest in a peace deal, so continue supporting UKR in the war:



https://twitter.com/kyivindependent/...7sgBSr97iytgbA

[Toadman]

Putin has basically staked is life on establishing at least a foothold in Ukraine. He's probably praying for a cold and dark winter for NATO countries. Then have the frozen Euros beg for Russian oil and gas and a stop to military aid to Ukraine.

[TBS]

^^^Im not so sure Putin has until winter
It’s a stalemate now, and Ukraine will get stronger with additional pledged equipment
Even if some Euros flinch, the US will continue to supply matériel (currently 75% of total) to use what they have, and may well step up for more
In the meantime, Russia isn’t going to get any stronger, and their supply lines will become more problematic

ETA- Remember Russia HAS to conquer -anything short of that is a loss.. Ukraine doesn’t have to win - they just have to not lose - think American Revolution, Vietnamese wars against France, US, China, and the Afghans against everybody over the centuries.

[The Reverend Floater]

Anyone else think Dugin's daughter being vaporized is a Russian job? No chance the Urkraines did that solo. And it's too balsy and dangerous for a third party, i.e. CIA, etc. Maybe this is the FSB turning on Poot and his boyz?

[J. Barron DeJong]

Kremlin media is claiming that a Ukrainian citizen carried out the killing, showing ID saying she was part of the Azov Battalion.

Analysis of the image RUS provided says they’re lying:



https://twitter.com/issandjumal/stat...7sgBSr97iytgbA

[abraham]

Kremlin media is claiming that a Ukrainian citizen carried out the killing, showing ID saying she was part of the Azov Battalion.

Analysis of the image RUS provided says they’re lying:

Miss Anatoliy Chepiga is an Ukrainian Azov member now?

[neufox47]

Anyone else think Dugin's daughter being vaporized is a Russian job? No chance the Urkraines did that solo. And it's too balsy and dangerous for a third party, i.e. CIA, etc. Maybe this is the FSB turning on Poot and his boyz?

I think it’s a Russian job but I don’t think it’s the FSB going rogue. It’s to help galvanize Russian support against the “terrorists”. Also Dugin likely has gained too much power / influence for Putin’s liking and has our lived his usefulness.

[Toadman]

The Kremlin also doesn't want a narrative getting out there that some Russian domestic anti special military operation in Ukraine rebel group is out there assassinating pro Putin special military operation supporters on Russian soil. Got to blame the Ukrainians. Except, if this domestic Russian anti-Putin group starts assassinating more pro Putin groupies, that will be tough for Putin to explain away.

[rideit]

I think it’s a Russian job but I don’t think it’s the FSB going rogue. It’s to help galvanize Russian support against the “terrorists”.

This kinda sounds like ‘middle East level’ conspiracy theory.

[LongShortLong]

The Kremlin also doesn't want a narrative getting out there that some Russian domestic anti special military operation in Ukraine rebel group is out there assassinating pro Putin special military operation supporters on Russian soil. Got to blame the Ukrainians. Except, if this domestic Russian anti-Putin group starts assassinating more pro Putin groupies, that will be tough for Putin to explain away.

A Russian historian twit I follow has a different angle. In international culture, Dugin is Putin's brain. In Russia, Dugin is a blowhard who claims to be Putin's brain. So it's entirely possible the Kremlin ordered the hit on a western "star" with no local value. Putin does have a domestic terrorism reputation, why stop now.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...230697987.html

More tweets from him today saying the same.

[jono]

This kinda sounds like ‘middle East level’ conspiracy theory.

Not middle east level, Pootin invented that level of false flag against Chechnya. He assassinated a guy in the UK for blowing the whistle on it years later.

[LongShortLong]

To add to the "Kremlin did the hit" narrative. Thread referenced by the Kamil Galeev twit I cited earlier.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...284490752.html

Doesn't make it true, and I don't know this author's agenda. Kamil Galeev is a historian, anti-Russian, pro Ukraine, and thinks the western narratives are misinformed as they are based in western culture rather than Russian culture. Basically we as humans assume everyone is like us, and this causes us to overlook important cultural differences. Kamil tweets to explain differences and misinterpretations.

[jono]

A Russian historian twit I follow has a different angle. In international culture, Dugin is Putin's brain. In Russia, Dugin is a blowhard who claims to be Putin's brain. So it's entirely possible the Kremlin ordered the hit on a western "star" with no local value. Putin does have a domestic terrorism reputation, why stop now.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...230697987.html

More tweets from him today saying the same.

I can't read much Dugin without throwing up, but I choked through a piece the other day (and quoted some of it here) where he described the need to perfect "Putinism" as part of Russian sovereignty. That kind of public appeal does seem a bit over the top for someone that's actually an insider in anything short of an established cult of personality. Maybe realistic for kissing the ass of a Hitler/Mussolini/Trump but not a person with any self-awareness. Which is Pootin? Seems TBD

[summit]

Kremlin media is claiming that a Ukrainian citizen carried out the killing, showing ID saying she was part of the Azov Battalion.

Analysis of the image RUS provided says they’re lying:



https://twitter.com/issandjumal/stat...7sgBSr97iytgbA

And that is how you know it was Russian elites sending Putin a message