To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[Deebased]

Yeah morgue trucks and military call outs and triaged ICU care and shipping patients out of state is from….wait let me check….scraped knee patients being admitted for covid.

Or as our self-styled brilliant woke realist spells it: “scrapped knee” ��

knee replacement surgery isn't something to be joked about particularly amongst skiers.

[dunfree]

The Lancet study said suicides were either flat or down:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...091-2/fulltext

But yeah I am sure that the people that looked at this just changed the underlying data to present 1/10 the actual suicide rate.

iirc, there was an er doc that got lots of press for talking about “lots of suicides” and wasn’t found to be credible, but the claim stuck for the covid cranks.

[Deebased]

There was also absolutely nothing in that Atlantic article to support Deebased's supposition that hospitals are admitting anyone who tests positive for Covid primarily to pad their bottom line.

Your faith in the altruism of healthcare administrators and executives is laudable. HCA Healthcare, Tenet healthcare and even the Mayo Clinic's 10-k's disagree with you.

[CarlMega]

I wonder if anyone has ever thought to look at excess mortality vs COVID-19 deaths?

So 20% additional in terms of excess deaths (100 disease deaths nets 120 total deaths). It's not nothing. But it's 1/5 not 5x to 10x more. Lulz.

I was trying to figure out how the 5x-10x might be a thing. I was wondering it was a mish-mash of life years vs. actual deaths. Where since many deaths were people nearing the end of life span anyway - and early testing / diagnosis likely affecting people with more expected years left - you could draw the numbers closer. Eg: each elderly covid death shorted expectancy by 2 years vs. someone who might have caught cancer early - resulted in 50 potential life expectancy years lost.

But I'm a hack and don't know anything.

[jono]

So 20% additional in terms of excess deaths (100 disease deaths nets 120 total deaths). It's not nothing. But it's 1/5 not 5x to 10x more. Lulz.

I was trying to figure out how the 5x-10x might be a thing. I was wondering it was a mish-mash of life years vs. actual deaths. Where since many deaths were people nearing the end of life span anyway - and early testing / diagnosis likely affecting people with more expected years left - you could draw the numbers closer. Eg: each elderly covid death shorted expectancy by 2 years vs. someone who might have caught cancer early - resulted in 50 potential life expectancy years lost.

But I'm a hack and don't know anything.

It wasn't the US. If you change the response you get different numbers. Maybe very different. Notice their total deaths were a hell of a lot lower than ours, so the multiplier is going to be bigger than ours. Those numbers may be off, of course, but that's the major difference.

[CarlMega]

It wasn't the US. If you change the response you get different numbers. Maybe very different. Notice their total deaths were a hell of a lot lower than ours, so the multiplier is going to be bigger than ours.

Good pt.

[skiJ]

' Prior Covid = studies seem to point to it being = to or maybe possibly better than 2x vaccine in protection terms. '

Mofro and others have posted many times evidence that this is false.

Aside from this, not sure what your point is? The evidence shows that previously infected individuals who are then vaccinated are better protected. I don't think anyone thinks that prior infection is useless.

hi, guys...

I have pleaded with you, not to quote the trolls-

Skidog has acknowledged he is trolling to entertain himself, from Work, endlessly shifting the argument(,) Just for the entertainment of the reaction it generates -

it has greatly decreased the value of this thread.


cited above, I reviewed many posts, and never found the initial ( - I guess it's a statement, - ) And

I believe the claim, ' I don't think anyone thinks that prior infection is useless. ' merits response.


I think All of the people who died of covid(,) believe their infection was 'useless' . And

I believe we have gone entirely too far trying to accomodate those who howl,

' I have antibodies ! '

over the last two weeks, these individuals have been repeatedly asked to produce their test results and have NOT.


at this point, "To vaccinate or Not " is not about individual immunity ;

it is about society's response to the disease ! !!

up thread, there is documentation of someone ( Tyler Wagner(?) ) who was billed 54,000. for two covid tests ;
his insurance company paid 16,000. And his annual share was 8,000. x2 ///

he may be responsible for the 16,000. for two covid tests. ( Be Careful what you sign )


it remains to be seen, whether the Federal mandate will include a testing option ( for some it may, but those who choose testing need to be Certain who is paying for the testing. Because they can be charged an unlimited amount for Each test ( 54,000. for a covid test ) )


Please don't quote the trolls -
doing so encourages them ;

you can respond to 'questions' without quoting them; you can refute their 'misinformation' without quoting them
( it only takes a little effort )


I apologize and I am sorry for the rant -

I have learned this week two life-long friends may have covid ( I was told one tested positive ( the other is unknown to me) ) ;
they are husband-and-wife and I have known them for forty years ;

there are complicating factors. immunocompromised -

Bad things happen to Good people...

( My comment on Sunday was, 'This is a development I had not anticipated - ' )


I have been asking people I know -who I care about- who I know are not vaccinated, to,

" Please, get vaccinated. "

I am mostly-done with persuasive conversations - those who are opposed to being vaccinated have their opinions, and like the two or four nemesis' in this thread, they are not going to be persuaded by facts.


in my imagination, only as they are dying, will they realize their covid infection "is useless."


I wish you peacefulness. tj

[The AD]

Your faith in the altruism of healthcare administrators and executives is laudable. HCA Healthcare, Tenet healthcare and even the Mayo Clinic's 10-k's disagree with you.

You said the Atlantic article said the hospitals were trying to pad their bottom line by admitting Covid cases and it did not even suggest that.

[bennymac]

knee replacement surgery isn't something to be joked about particularly amongst skiers.

your understanding of the healthcare system is though

[skiJ]

your understanding of the healthcare system is though

saved for posterity. My posterior, skiJ

[k2skier112]

A new Oregon advocacy group aims to counteract COVID-19 misinformation and is targeting a list of elected conservatives it has dubbed “villains” of the pandemic.

The group, Our Shot Oregon, intends to focus its campaign on prominent political opponents of masking, social distancing and COVID-19 vaccines.

Depending on how much support the group can garner, its actions could include posting billboards “calling out” the politicians or otherwise mobilizing volunteers, founder Jake Weigler said Wednesday. The group does not currently have a fund-raising goal, Weigler said.
https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavir...-villains.html

[The AD]

I believe the claim, ' I don't think anyone thinks that prior infection is useless. ' merits response.


I think All of the people who died of covid(,) believe their infection was 'useless' .

Fair enough. I meant those who survived, but valid point.

[jono]

Fair enough. I meant those who survived, but valid point.

Since we're being fair, if you had an infection experience you wouldn't happily trade for a vaccination, that was probably pretty useless, too.

[skiJ]

I know that's what you meant, AD - And

I am trying to illustrate, that I believe 'We' are working way. too. hard. to accommodate the post-infection immunity argument.

they have not shown an antibody test ;
they have not shown a diagnosis of clinical covid - -

( in the region I am from, lots of people were getting screening testing - no clinical disease / Just to be tested. )

so someone has a Positive antigen test, and starts barking,

' I had covid ! I have antibodies ! '
.
.
.
... well., Maybe -

There have been several demands for definitive answers to hypothetical scenarios ( post-infection, no antibodies; post-vaccination, no antibodies, etc. ) without ever citing a case of these (hypothetical) scenarios ;

the thoughtful among us, say, 'those scenarios are possible. ' , I say, Time is wasting, and Vaccination is the cost-effective tool to control the disease.

The World is a long way from being done with this disease.

I believe we need to take a firmer stance - from engaging in arguments about individual immunity, to promoting the solution to the disease.
is a weekly covid test part of the solution ? Maybe ( What is the test going to be for(?) , and what are the consequences (?) )


Solution...? - Please, get vaccinated --

are there breakthrough infections ? yes. That's Life.

Ben Franklin said, ' the only certainties are death and taxes. '


for me, it's a hard week -
. . . I had no idea my immunocompromised friend did not have the protection of Vaccination - and
her immunocompromise is the result of medical treatment
( it is a scenario that could exist for thousands of people. . . ) - -


Let's go skiing... !

respectfully. tj

[ill-advised strategy]

The group, Our Shot Oregon, intends to focus its campaign on prominent political opponents of masking, social distancing and COVID-19 vaccines.

Guess what else appears to be focusing its campaign on these numbnuts: the virus itself. How many of these clowns keep ending up hospitalized and dead!?

[old goat]

What I find odd about the Atlantic study is that they used O2 saturation and the need for supplemental O2 to decide if a patient's admission was due to Covid or something else. If they had enough access to individual medical records to get that information surely they would have had access to the primary diagnoses--that information is typically much easier to find. You don't need the full MR--just the diagnosis coding.

Not that it makes a whole lot of difference. What the Atlantic article tells us is that there a whole lot of Covid carriers running around. The one Covid case I was significantly exposed to--exposed enough to need a test--was someone who tested positive before elective surgery. It does seem reasonable, since hospitals are reporting all covid cases to have them break it down by reason for admission--covid or something else. That will improve the accuracy of the statistics. It won't make a bit of difference in the course of the pandemic.

[tuco]

Australia is a hoax!

[Buster Highmen]

[jono]

Australia is a hoax!

I thought that was Finland?

[bennymac]

Case report of restless anal syndrome after COVID-19

https://bmcinfectdis.biomedcentral.c...5rvs7cB_eN_paE

A 77-year-old male with COVID-19 improved to normal respiratory function 21 days after admission and treatment. Several weeks after discharge, he gradually began to experience restless, deep anal discomfort, approximately 10 cm from the perineal region. The following features were observed in the anal region; urge to move is essential, with worsening with rest, improvement with exercise, and worsening at evening.

----

mtu - we finally figured out why you're so ornery

[twat]

Good morning. Thats some news! Vaccinations are the key!
Was wondering how long they will lock you in!
Or others out????

[twat]

I had to google the case chart for australia. Very impressive.
Ofcourse being an island helps.
Hope you get those 80% quick enough.
And hope to see you and your loud friends soon.

[twat]

We might be arnold and crocodile dundee on night watch here.

[Casey E]

Chile drops its state of emergency and lets non residents in, subject to multiple requirements. My Russian bud got in with Sputnik, so they are not too stringent…

https://www.chileatiende.gob.cl/coro...do-de-frontera

As summarized by emol:

“According to the Undersecretariat of Tourism, foreigners who enter the country from tomorrow, October 1, will have to meet the following requirements: Have approved their vaccination process, since only those people who have their complete vaccination process can enter the country; have a negative PCR test no earlier than 72 hours before their flight; have medical insurance that allows them to enter the country and fill out the C-19, as is done now.

Once they enter the country, foreign citizens will have to undergo a PCR and serve a 5-day quarantine, which does not necessarily have to be done in a transit hotel.”

https://www.emol.com/noticias/Nacion...eso-chile.html

[twat]

No i did not!
I thought about how we life with the virus. It is normal masks etc. But if i see a public bus everybody wheres his mask. Knowing 30% of this idiots are not vaxxed and part of the problem i get angry.