To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[MultiVerse]

They can require a vaccine for *domestic* air travel, can't they? I'd think that mandate would get another BIG chunk of people on board with the stabby-stabby.

Vax passports boosted air travel in Europe. And you're right interstate commerce or in this case air travel falls under federal authority. Polls indicate most Americans support vaccine mandates for air travel. And 11% of unvaccinated Americans say they would get the vaccine if it became an air travel requirement. Law scholars also say vax mandates fall under the FAA's "inimical to safety” umbrella and are therefore legal.

[old goat]

For all the talk of vaccine mandates, we should recognize America’s vaccine policies are a contradictory mess in no small part because of the way our government is structured. People should rest a little easier if they're concerned about federal mandates because the federal government is limited in what they can do. The feds can require vaccines for the military and federal employees as well as mandate masks on federal property. They can also mandate vaccines for foreign travelers, but currently only require a negative test to enter the country.

Everything else is up to state and local government along with private businesses. It's all very piecemeal and confusing. It's less of a slippery slope on the way to Oceania and more like Ben Simmons who cannot make a jump shot outside 10 feet.

It's called Federalism. I.e. states rights. We fought a war over it. The South won.
And yeah, the way that responsibility for public health has been abandoned to the counties is fine if you're chasing down syphilis, not so great with a global pandemic, especially since county health depts have never been given remotely enough funding for the job.

[skaredshtles]

They CAN, but no proof of other vaccines is needed currently so.....would be interesting to see them try. I say ACLU field day.

You're old enough to remember air travel with basically *no* security to speak of. After 9/11 all sorts of restrictions were put in place (and a federal agency to handle it with 54K employees and a $7.8 billion budget) - all in the name of public safety.

Not sure how this would be any different, fundamentally?

[riser4]

Can't afford 1 day off? You have a shitty job earning $12 an hour. After taxes is like $70 bring home for the day. You eat Kraft Mac & cheese for a week. Been there done that as a youngster when I moved out. Not ideal, but you will live and now your vaccinated too. Winning!

And the working poor that cycle between minimum wage jobs while trying to support a family?

[TBS]

For all those decrying the difficulty vaccinating the rural poor,

Take a look at what the Navajo Nation accomplished…

[skaredshtles]

It's called Federalism. I.e. states rights. We fought a war over it. The South won.

Hard to argue with you.

I wonder how long it will take before the populace realizes that it really *is* a failed modern form of government and decides to adopt something less dumb...

Probably not in my lifetime.

[k2skier112]

Understood. Was trying to point out his comment that America has killed more of its people than any other country is false as a %.
Not to diminish our sometimes poor efforts, rather firing back at a Canadian that likes to find reasons to dunk on the US around every corner.

when we count war fatalities do we count the % killed?

when we count hurricane deaths do we count % dead?

when there's a car crash do we count the % of passengers killed?

it's an undisputed FACT that the USA has killed more people than any other country, full stop

[skaredshtles]

Can't afford 1 day off? You have a shitty job earning $12 an hour. After taxes is like $70 bring home for the day. You eat Kraft Mac & cheese for a week. Been there done that as a youngster when I moved out. Not ideal, but you will live and now your vaccinated too. Winning!

Dude. Seriously... this is a bad look.

liv2ski:

[paulster2626]

yeah other countries beat USA on deaths per million but so much winning on the overall total

I kind of expected Brazil to catch up on the overall but they havent

Who cares about overall, it's % that matters. Brazil crushed them.

Top 10:

1 Peru
2 Hungary
3 Bosnia and Herzegovina
4 Gibraltar
5 Czechia
6 North Macedonia
7 Montenegro
8 Bulgaria
9 Brazil
10 San Marino

And then there's:

21 USA
81 Canada
203 China (haha)

I kind of trust the USA to keep accurate counts more than many other countries. The totals may be skewed a little, making America look worse comparatively than they actually are (still pretty bad, though).

[paulster2626]

when we count war fatalities do we count the % killed?

when we count hurricane deaths do we count % dead?

when there's a car crash do we count the % of passengers killed?

it's an undisputed FACT that the USA has killed more people than any other country, full stop

Kind of. There are published stats for all of those things "you have a X% chance of dying in a _________."

Stating death counts and death probabilities are used in different contexts. In this context, you can't really say the USA is the worst compared to other countries without taking total population in to account. Well you can, I guess. Either way it's a shit sandwich.

[Norseman]

2021 Drag Queen name: Maxine Vandate


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Bravo.

[altasnob]

Yes medical exemptees should get a card by sending the issuer a doctor's note specifying the reason (another loss of freedom, alas). There are very few reasons for a medical exemption. Primarily allergy to the shot.

Is this what is currently happening? If I have medical exemption I have to send my medical records to the federal government or state health department, who has their own docs review those records, and then decides if my reason is legit enough to get an exemption?

The way I understand the status quo is I have to "prove" my medical exemption to the Walmart greeter asking for proof of vaccination at the door. And then we read about some fight breaking out in Florida over disagreements on what exactly is a medical exemption. Awesome.

[Salvelinusconfluentus]

Someone just told me vaccinated people are most likely to have covid and I should stay away from them.. those dirty, vaccinated vectors!

[AK47bp]

I was flattened. Got the J&J shot at 10am, and about 10 hrs later around 8pm it felt like the flu. then a BAD flu where i took a couple sit down scalding showers shivering while hallucinating. Awful. And then around noon the next day i felt completely fine, just super tired from not having really slept the night before. It was bad, but it was short.

Shit. Well I guess I was lucky. Although I hear a stronger response to the vaccine is actually better so your probably more protected.


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[Adolf Allerbush]

I was flattened. Got the J&J shot at 10am, and about 10 hrs later around 8pm it felt like the flu. then a BAD flu where i took a couple sit down scalding showers shivering while hallucinating. Awful. And then around noon the next day i felt completely fine, just super tired from not having really slept the night before. It was bad, but it was short.

For sure, if you're going to get fired for not showing up to work then that's a problem. It does get tiresome to hear only about why something can't be done without even trying it though. Not that you're saying that, but others most certainly are. It's as if they're trying to come up with excuses to do nothing and perpetuate the current state of being stuck in this pandemic for ever. I would like to move on from this at some point, and if that means we pass out free ID or Biden writes an EO to protect jobs for workers who feel sick after being jabbed so be it. I'm sure there will be a response as to why this is an infringement on freedom of some person and that it's impossible.

[::: :::]

Who cares about overall, it's % that matters. Brazil crushed them.

In one sense, I don't really care how many other countries lost. Our internal policies don't affect other countries.
In that regard, per capita or % is sort of silly and divorces us from the impact of the cost we've incurred.

It's appalling that we've allowed so many to suffer.
And it isn't over because people continue to dismiss the stats as just numbers to be played with for partisan posturing.

If you need perspective, find the other US casualty events that created numbers of deaths approaching this continuingly-increasing stat

[subtle plague]

My money is on the chimp.

37$ on deebased. He learned Gorilla steeze from tanner.

[mcski]

Shit. Well I guess I was lucky. Although I hear a stronger response to the vaccine is actually better so your probably more protected.


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My wife and I were both pretty sick for a couple days after #2. Worth it, but For some it may not be though in the immediate and I get why some heard enough stories about the vax causing sick days to take a pass on it out of fear of missing work and fam obligations. Others are just cowards.

[Adolf Allerbush]

I am being genuine.

I don't have an answer, if I did I likely would have little time to post here and i'd probably have a really important job. I wish there was a magic fix. We fucked around in this country too long and its coming home to roost in ways we likely never expected.

And while immunocompromised, in some situations, can get the vax, many still cannot. small group, agreed. At this point getting these exemptions is as simple as paying a Dr or getting your local priest to sign some shit...

Ill say it again, i wish everyone would get stuck, we wouldnt be having this conversation.

Maybe the immunocompromised group makes up a relatively small portion of the population, but the under 12 year old portion is sizeable (48 million or so last I checked). To structure our society to induce unsafe situations at private businesses only to keep people from having to show that they are vaccinated seems very short sighted and stupid.

In one sense, I don't really care how many other countries lost. Our internal policies don't affect other countries.
In that regard, per capita or % is sort of silly and divorces us from the impact of the cost we've incurred.

It's appalling that we've allowed so many to suffer.
And it isn't over because people continue to dismiss the stats as just numbers to be played with for partisan posturing.

If you need perspective, find the other US casualty events that created numbers of deaths approaching this continuingly-increasing stat

I get why people like to think about it as a % of total population since it makes them feel better about the US relative to other countries. On the other hand our ability to respond to this pandemic has been pathetic. If it's wearing masks, getting vaccinated, or social distancing...people have been too selfish to do what is right for the greater good. Our total death count demonstrates that, regardless of how that matches up on a % dead basis.

[Percy Rideout]

Odd, as my wife was similar to your experience where as I had a sore arm after #1, but nuthin after #2. Can't people just warn the boss they are going in Thursday or Friday for the shot and may need to call in sick? I mean if you're sick from anything else you call in, so what is the difference.

Hot take:

This is the most out of touch comment i have ever read on TGR.

[Skidog]

Maybe the immunocompromised group makes up a relatively small portion of the population, but the under 12 year old portion is sizeable. To structure our society to induce unsafe situations at private businesses only to keep people from having to show that they are vaccinated seems very short sighted and stupid.

Im hoping that population gets approved VERY SOON trust me...

I do believe that with masking, NOT POV, has proven that children are not at risk and not as big a vector as we thought. Evolving for sure but thats what I've seen thus far.

[skaredshtles]

37$ on deebased. He learned Gorilla steeze from tanner.

I'll take that bet.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Im hoping that population gets approved VERY SOON trust me...

I do believe that with masking, NOT POV, has proven that children are not at risk and not as big a vector as we thought. Evolving for sure but thats what I've seen thus far.

man, that's my hope for sure. kids are heading back to school here in a little over a week. Not excited about them being the test cases. I'm mostly worried they'll have some long lasting issues from getting COVID, not as much worried about death, but that worries me as well of course.

[k2skier112]

Kind of. There are published stats for all of those things "you have a X% chance of dying in a _________."

Stating death counts and death probabilities are used in different contexts. In this context, you can't really say the USA is the worst compared to other countries without taking total population in to account. Well you can, I guess. Either way it's a shit sandwich.

My point was the cherry picking stats to prove your point
Yes, the % is a very critical stat to determine how the virus is going
But it is undeniable that the US has the most overall deaths too
It most definitely a shit sandwich no matter how you slice it (diagonally is the best, of course)

The other overlooked stat is infections per million, right now the US is 5th in the world with 118,132 infections per m. How many long covid problems will they incur?

[subtle plague]

I'll take that bet.

Ok so we've got that settled. We have to sort out the fine print:
Training from SUF or not?
PCP or not?
Baseball bats?
And where does buzzworthy come in? Joker or team up with the chimp (unfair!) Or can they put their intraspecies hate aside and focus on interspecies rage to beat the chimp?