The Official Salomon S/Lab SHIFT MNC Thread -AMA

[margotron]

Just a quick reminder: anyone having issues with brakes deploying while skinning due to snow, icing, or just general idiocy (present)—use rubber bands to hold them up. I just put them on in the parking lot now. Takes 2 seconds. never worry about them again.


Edit: i also want to second here that Zeppa and Binding Delta are different things. We experience them similarly, they both impact the angle of your foot relative to the ski, and are best tackled iteratively. I.e. get the zeppa in your boot right, then adjust bindings to all have similar deltas

[LeeLau]

I find the guide on newschoolers addresses all these concerns well, and I've had a good number of inbounds days on the shift without any issues.
1. The manual is "correct" but as the newschoolers guide explains it's a bit vague. You want the silver part to line up with the arrows.
2. A credit card may be 1 step too low, but it's hard to say depending on the steps and your boot sole.

Here's a link to the guide: https://www.newschoolers.com/news/re...n-Issues-Fixes

As the author of that NS piece, once again I'd like to point out that many of the recommendations came not just from myself but from posters on NS and to this TGR thread. Thanks to all for that

[~mikey b]

using that NS article I was able to set mine and my son’s up properly and have not had any problems

he’s in Technica Cochise Dyna Jr and I’m in a Scarpa Freedom SL with tech sole blocks

mounted with Jigarex

[WhetherMan]

Nobody asked but,
with some light dremel-ing of the inside plastic on the brake arms, 110 brakes are working great on a 124mm ski.
So now you know.

[Kevo]

Skied my new toes earlier this week after getting a warranty replacement for the won't stay in tour mode shifts.

I haven't tried touring in them yet, but I had a really bad double eject pre-release after landing off a medium sized kicker in the park. I've never pre-released in shifts before and have hit this same jump in shifts many times without issue. I got rocked pretty hard and still sore 3 days out.

Going to take them back to my local shop and have them check for toe height and forward pressure. What else should I be on the lookout for when inspecting the binding?

[Spyderjon]

..........Going to take them back to my local shop and have them check for toe height and forward pressure. What else should I be on the lookout for when inspecting the binding?

Check them yourself. If you don't know how then learn. Many shops don't know how to set-up the Shift correctly.

If just the toe din windows were changed then the AFD height shouldn't have been touched but if you've had new complete toes then the din and AFD height will need checking. The forward pressure in the heel shouldn't have been touched at all so assuming your boot hasn't changed it should be fine - but always worth checking anyway.

[~mikey b]

why is this so difficult for people to do? I don’t get it

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

A well regarded shop near me mounted shifts for a buddy. He prereleased 3x on his first day. I checked them and both the forward pressure and AFDs were set incorrectly and completely different between his two skis. Pretty wild to see shops still struggling with a binding that’s been out for years now.

[ASmileyFace]

As a guy who only started working in a shop this season... the lack of training and the Salomon manual being pretty vague about the set up is partially to blame. Doesn't matter how "reputable" a shop is, if the monkey setting up the binding goes by the manual, there is a good chance of the AFD being set incorrectly or the forward pressure being to low. If it wasn't for this thread I wouldn't have learned how to fix those issues.

I go over the binding in detail with nearly every single person who buys it. It's a lot of moving parts. If you're used to either low tech pins or regular alpine clamps the odds of being able to diagnose problems in the field are low for the average consumer.

[gunfrank]

Does anyone else have a small gap ( ~1mm) between the front part of the toe piece and topsheet of the ski, as well as the back part of the heel piece and the topsheet?

Mine have it, but can't post a link or an image, as I'm a noob here.
I bought them already mounted on Bent Chetler 100 (19/20) skis and was wondering if I should get them remounted or something.

[Spyderjon]

Does anyone else have a small gap ( ~1mm) between the front part of the toe piece and topsheet of the ski, as well as the back part of the heel piece and the topsheet?

That's ok providing there's no gap adjacent to the toe stud. The underside of the toe binding actually rises slightly upwards from just forward of the stud, presumably to give a little more clearance for the ski to flex.

The underside of the heel base is flat but the gap you're seeing is due to the ski starting to getting thinner towards the tail so a gap will start to appear rearward of the rearmost mounting screws, which again gives a little more clearance for the ski to flex.

[gunfrank]

That's ok providing there's no gap adjacent to the toe stud.

I just looked at a few photos of where the stud is on the bottom (can't link them, but it's the photos comparing where the stud is with the paper template and the actual jig) and the gap ends just a few millimeters before the stud (you can't see through it), so I guess it should be okay.

Thank you so much for the explanation, it makes perfect sense now.

[Leksun]

Hey all,

On Thursday I was skiing inbounds on Blackcomb with a friend. Last lap of the day (of course) I came off a small side hit and on landing my right ski wasn't on my foot. Earned myself a seperated shoulder, and on closer examination of the binding the walk/ski switch had broken (can't post pics b/c new account). Has anyone had/seen this before?

[altacoup]

I know these bindings were marketed as a do it all binding, but I don’t think that’s true. I think they’re great if you want to ski hard in the backcountry. I love mine. But if you’re using them a bunch inbounds, my guess is that due to their lighter weight construction they just can’t take the abuse of hammering laps on the lifts. And if you have them learn how to set them up. LeeLau’s new schoolers post is the best online explanation with photos. Spyderjon’s shop is probably the only shop in the world I’d trust to set these up right, but I don’t live in Europe or the UK.

[phatboy64]

I have what may be a dumb question. I have a set of Shifts with the new DIN window (nubs) and a set without. If I understand what I have read in this thread I can replace just the DIN window (assuming I can get the new windows with the nubs).

How do you remove and replace the DIN window? On the set that I have with the nubs, it takes ALOT of pressure to pull the level up past the nubs. I would think if it were merely a "pop off the old one and snap the new one on" the windows would pop off every time I pulled the level up to lock the toes.

Am I just totally missing something here?

[Kevo]

I took my bindings back to the local salomon dealer to double check that they were set up correctly after my pre-release. The shop had a different tech confirm that everything was ok.

Today was day two skiing on the new toe pieces (entirely new toes, not just a new DIN window).

I stepped out of the binding after three laps and noticed that one of the MNC plates was stuck to the side and not going back to the neutral position. Upon inspection, there is a broken spring sticking out.

From the two bindings I've interacted with and countless posts on social media, it seems a very high number of 2020/2021 shifts have manufacturing defects.

[kootenayskier]

This year I put Shifts on my powder skis, which I also use occasionally for slack-country touring. Set up was pretty easy with my touring boots, and they work ok for short tours. They do inspire a lot more confidence when I occasionally ski inbounds in my touring boots, but I don't notice any improvement over tech bindings when skiing in the backcountry. They make for a much heavier and more awkward setup when touring than my regular Zed touring bindings. One of the toe touring locks wasn't working the other day, which I hope doesn't become a thing.
My main issue is setting them up with my Full Tilt classic hill boots. I've worked as a ski tech, I read all the instructions, but fucked if I can work out what's going on. If I set them up with the AFD gently kissing the sole of my boot (as I do with my STHs) I get an unnerving amount vertical play and a loud clicking sound in the toe. Cranking the AFD up another step to the maximum height eliminates the play, but doesn't seem entirely safe, and I still get a audible creaking sound every time I crank a hard turn. It feels like at the higher settings and with a hard soled boot that the AFD flexes down under force. I'm not pre-releasing, but it's not confidence inspiring. Also, with such a high AFD setting the toe-up ramp angle is absurd. I was hoping they'd be good enough at everything, but I'm coming to a realization that I'd much rather be on my STHs inbounds, and on my Zeds when touring.

[anotherVTskibum]

A well regarded shop near me mounted shifts for a buddy. He prereleased 3x on his first day. I checked them and both the forward pressure and AFDs were set incorrectly and completely different between his two skis. Pretty wild to see shops still struggling with a binding that’s been out for years now.

I get that the manual is vague and not all techs get their updates from TGR, so I wouldn't get too excited about the being set imperfectly but consistent with the manual.

However, the forward pressure should clearly match between the two bindings, because regardless of what you think it should be set at, one of them has to be wrong if they're different, and (IMO) that's sloppy work.

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[jacob_dbu]

I think these are the perfect binding if you’re doing a lot of slack country. But if you’re not spending half the day in the resort and half the day skinning (on the SAME day) there’s other bindings I’d much rather be in.

Perhaps they’re also great if you are sending it huge in the backcountry or sled skiing. But if you’re doing 10 ft drops in the backcountry - just get a Tecton.

[SoVT Joey]

Whenever I’m having a shitty day, I come here and read the shift thread and then I realize how much better life is when you ski a marker. Thanks for making my day better shift!!

[GoldenBC]

Whenever I’m having a shitty day, I come here and read the shift thread and then I realize how much better life is when you ski a marker. Thanks for making my day better shift!!

At least the replacement toes are cheap when you inevitability break your kingpins.

[SoVT Joey]

At least the replacement toes are cheap when you inevitability break your kingpins.

No marker has a great warranty, and when they have a problem they fix it. Salomon should learn from them. Instead we are three years out and the bindings self destruct. One buddy, three days in a row, three different problems, bought a kingpin, no problems and says it skis better.

Have fun!!

[Judo Chop!]

Perhaps they’re also great if you are sending it huge in the backcountry or sled skiing. .

I have two buddies who broke parts of their toes just from regular sled use. I had all sorts of prerelease issues with mine sledskiing (well... 'skiing' really).
I've gone all-in back to CAST for sled, resort, slackcountry and even full touring (see below). In fact, with the second-ski kit, now almost all my skis can walk for little extra $ and no compromise in skiing, for total flexibility. Certainly it's the better option for the most common SHIFT buyer scenario.. ie. resort plus occasional slackcountry or tour days.

No marker has a great warranty, and when they have a problem they fix it. Salomon should learn from them. Instead we are three years out and the bindings self destruct. One buddy, three days in a row, three different problems, bought a kingpin, no problems and says it skis better.

Have fun!!

I'm thinking I MAY go back to kingpins on my dedicated touring skis. I had issues with them, but not as many issues as with Shift. and they are more convenient and lighter than CAST and shift for that. but mostly because they're already swiss-cheesed and hole holes for each of those 3, otherwise I'd look elsewhere. The one thing that has me questioning though is the release safety thing.

[rod9301]

I have two buddies who broke parts of their toes just from regular use. I had all sorts of prerelease issues with mine sledskiing (well... 'skiing' really).
I've gone all-in back to CAST for sled, resort, slackcountry and even full touring (see below). In fact, with the second-ski kit, now almost all my skis can walk for little extra $ and no compromise in skiing, for total flexibility. Certainly it's the better option for the most common SHIFT buyer scenario.. ie. resort plus occasional slackcountry or tour days.



I'm thinking I MAY go back to kingpins on my dedicated touring skis. I had issues with them, but not as many issues as with Shift. and they are more convenient and lighter than CAST and shift for that. but mostly because they're already swiss-cheesed and hole holes for each of those 3, otherwise I'd look elsewhere. The one thing that has me questioning though is the release safety thing.

I would look at salomon mtn, more reliable no pre releases

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[Kevo]

I should say that despite my issues with this year's bindings, I'm very happy with my 2019/2020 shifts that I have on another pair of skis. I've never had an issue with those except for the brakes wanting to deploy in deep snow when snow builds up under the brakes (would be an issue in any binding, honestly). I've never had a prerelease and never had issues with the tech toes when touring. They have been bomber for me, and I fully trust them.

My experience with this year's bindings has been so frustrating because I know how awesome it is to use Shifts that have no issues for resort/ sidecountry missions.

My local resort has sidecountry gates with pretty amazing terrain. On any given day I may decide to dip out of bounds and tour or ski inbounds depending on conditions or which buddies I meet up with. I always bring skins/beacon/etc with me and ski Cochise Pro 130s for resort/sidecountry, so the Shift is ideal for this application and it makes it so that I never have to ski touring bindings in bounds.

I also have dedicated ATK touring bindings and dedicated AT boots for longer missions. The user experience on that setup is undoubtedly way better for touring, but I wouldn't want to ski it as an inbounds setup for obvious reasons.

I'm really hoping that Salomon can find a fix for my issues. My plan this year was to have run Shifts on both Rustler 11s (the 19/20 no-issue Shifts mentioned above) for more of a charger ski and Moment Deathwishes (the 20/21 many issues shifts) for more of a playful ski.

The Deathwishes have been sidelined with Shift issues for all but 2 days since i got them in the middle of January. I've got close to 50 days on my Rustler 11s this season with no issues.