Ask the experts

[Falcon3]

Alright, my own question now, this could have gone in Gimp Central but nobody talks about training there, it's become the injury center.
I've decided to get a little more serious about training for endurance mountain biking this year. Last year I rode a shitload and would "recover" with beer and burritos, which was great, but I definitely didnt' feel like I sprung back from the rides as well as I would like. All summer just felt like I was constantly overtraining, but when I would take a week and go real easy, the next week I'd feel out of shape.

So, suggestions on nutrition? I finally did supplement my Snickers and water with Nuun and shot Bloks, which made a massive difference during 30+ mile rides, but the above problem with recovery stuck around.

I'm not trying to podium, but getting a little faster and feeling better throughout the summer rides would be nice.

[XXX-er]

balanced meals, a bit of everyhting and not too much , less booze more sleep

for recovery discovered Magnesium Citrate on the long rides at Moab now I use it anytime I know i am gona be sore

[Dantheman]

Alright, my own question now, this could have gone in Gimp Central but nobody talks about training there, it's become the injury center.
I've decided to get a little more serious about training for endurance mountain biking this year. Last year I rode a shitload and would "recover" with beer and burritos, which was great, but I definitely didnt' feel like I sprung back from the rides as well as I would like. All summer just felt like I was constantly overtraining, but when I would take a week and go real easy, the next week I'd feel out of shape.

So, suggestions on nutrition? I finally did supplement my Snickers and water with Nuun and shot Bloks, which made a massive difference during 30+ mile rides, but the above problem with recovery stuck around.

I'm not trying to podium, but getting a little faster and feeling better throughout the summer rides would be nice.

Check out Dylan Johnson's YouTube channel.

[climberevan]

Check out Dylan Johnson's YouTube channel.

I'll second this. DJ is the best YT source I've come across, especially if you like to do things that are backed up by real science rather than old coaching lore.

Even minmal training structure and good recovery (good sleep, less alcohol) will pay big dividends, especially if you've never had any before. If you want to dive deeper, Joe Friel's "Cyclist's Training Bible" is excellent.

Xtrpickels says he might do a mag training seminar at some point, so sign up for that.

[Falcon3]

FKNA thanks boys, will check out DJ.

[LeeLau]

1..not much

2. not much

3. Yes

Depending on where you ride getting something too long a wheelbase, too slack can actually not be too good a choice.

Fromme and Seymour trails are, for the most part, adaptations of old school jank so whatever bike you have needs to be able to handle slow speed as well as high speed.

If you're into Cypress or the shuttle Seymour trails only then get a newer slacked longer bike but sounds like this may not be the case.

Your $2500 budget can get you a nice 2017 29er right now if you start shopping smart. Pay a lot more if you look towards April

TLDR life story:

Live on the North Shore, decided last year I need an annoyingly expensive non-snow hobby, bought an old (2006?) Stumpjumper, rode a lot, crashed a lot, determined mtb is actually pretty fun, heeded advice somewhere upthread to not sink money into trying to “modernize” an old bike.

Was also told somewhere up there my old bike is “actively trying to kill me” on the dh, which may partly explain the frequent otb events (that and skill deficit.)

Resolved to buy a new (to me) bike. Borrowed a few buddies endurbro 29ers, and found that exceptionally fun. And less crashy.

So now, like every other 40ish bro in Vancouver, I’m looking for a 2017ish 29er, riding mostly on the north shore,$2500 range hopefully.

Questions:
- being a bike jong, how much difference will I actually notice in travel? Eg is there a practical difference bw 135 vs 150 that the everyday rider would notice?
- Same question re slackness. Are a couple degrees difference in hta/ sta going to make for a noticeably different riding experience?
- Assume if I get a lower spec but on a modern platform I can upgrade components as I start to notice how shitty they are? Eg looking at an Spcl Enduro Comp, looks pretty entry level, but I could build it out more as I improve?

Weird starting something so fresh at this age.

And if anyone has anything to sell that fits the above that would be helpful too...

Edit. Maybe this should go in the bike jong thread

[Pinned]

Alright, my own question now, this could have gone in Gimp Central but nobody talks about training there, it's become the injury center.
I've decided to get a little more serious about training for endurance mountain biking this year. Last year I rode a shitload and would "recover" with beer and burritos, which was great, but I definitely didnt' feel like I sprung back from the rides as well as I would like. All summer just felt like I was constantly overtraining, but when I would take a week and go real easy, the next week I'd feel out of shape.

So, suggestions on nutrition? I finally did supplement my Snickers and water with Nuun and shot Bloks, which made a massive difference during 30+ mile rides, but the above problem with recovery stuck around.

I'm not trying to podium, but getting a little faster and feeling better throughout the summer rides would be nice.

When I was riding a lot and feeling good my diet was mostly vegetarian with low to no preservatives. If you have any weight to lose a cleaner diet will help and even a few pounds difference will make you perform better and recover faster. Right now I have about 10-15lbs to lose and I can tell. The biggest thing is sticking to meals you can prepare quickly - I know I'll get home from a few hours on the bike and be very tempted to eat junk and a lot of it. So I get rid of all that stuff and stop buying food out. Make extras so I have leftovers for immediate post ride. Keep fast ingredients on hand. Lots of variety so I don't get tempted to buy junk.

Breakfast:
Oatmeal with fruit, toast with PB and fruit, avocado toast, etc are great breakfasts that are super fast. Get good / fun toppings for all of these - chia, nuts, and maple syrup for the oatmeal or sesame seeds and miso for the avo toast.

Lunch:
Salad with grains for lunch. Always keep rice/quinoa cooked and in the fridge. Lots of chickpeas (pan or oven roasted). Pepitas, nuts, etc for crunch. A variety of good lettuces. Decent dressing you like.

Whatever sandwich you like but skip the deli meats if you can, generally find I don't feel great after them. Hummus + tofu, seitan / tempeh, avo, etc.

Ride food:
Make your own if you can. Skratch Labs cookbook is solid. As is Velo Chef. For packaged products I like the Skratch Labs, UnTapped, and Carborocket.

Post-ride recovery:
Smoothie. Fast, filling, healthy. I do a plant based protein powder, frozen spinach, banana, peanut butter, and almond milk.

Dinner:
Just eat an absolutely silly amount of vegetables on top of some carbs. Pasta is great, especially with summer veggies on it.

Also, potatoes are a vegetable so eat those because they are great. Lazy? Put a potato in the microwave and then pour on the toppings.

Salmon and potatoes is always a winning combo too.

And get good spices, you need more than salt and pepper to make healthy stuff taste good. Smoked paprika, cumin, Aleppo chili, Za'atar, etc. But skip the processed food, excess dairy, and processed sugars as much as possible.

[Iowagriz]

When I was actually training and riding decent weekly hours, I found that my best defense was eating something quick and easy for immediate recovery. If I didn't have a plan, then I'd just eat and drink everything in sight.

So have a plan for getting off the bike. For me that was a lunch meat and cheese rollup or two. Maybe tortilla, mayo, meat cheese. Fats and protein. Eat two and get into the shower immediately to let that food sink in. Then back to a normal meal after the shower. That routine gave me good recovery and kept me from binging (so I could drop the extra lbs)

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[Rossymcg]

TLDR life story:

Questions:
- being a bike jong, how much difference will I actually notice in travel? Eg is there a practical difference bw 135 vs 150 that the everyday rider would notice?

- Same question re slackness. Are a couple degrees difference in hta/ sta going to make for a noticeably different riding experience?
as above, but corning is more of an effort on a longer slacker bike you really have to lean
- Assume if I get a lower spec but on a modern platform I can upgrade components as I start to notice how shitty they are? Eg looking at an Spcl Enduro Comp, looks pretty entry level, but I could build it out more as I improve?

Weird starting something so fresh at this age.

And if anyone has anything to sell that fits the above that would be helpful too...

Edit. Maybe this should go in the bike jong thread

Q1 15 mm ain't going to make any difference to a MTB jong. JONGS brake in all the wrong places so the suspension ain't working properly anyway

Q2 May hamper a MTB jong and not help at all. Youve got to commit more in corners on a longer slacker bike. how hard/fast you smashing through janky rocky stuff to really need the slacker longer bike?

Q3 You'll get addicted to upgrades

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[Roxtar]

Looking at a Spcl Enduro Comp,

Don't start on the wrong foot. Look elsewhere.
No, they don't make a terrible bike but they're a terrible company run by terrible human beings.
They're the Backcountry.com of bike companies.
But worse.

[skaredshtles]

<snip> they're a terrible company run by terrible human beings.
They're the Backcountry.com of bike companies.
But worse.

QFT.

[EWG]

Have you ever had to take a rotor off trailside to limp a bike back to the trailhead?

One of the last rides of this season I took the pads out of my front disc brake cause it was fucked and wouldn't spin, then just didn't use it for the last 8 miles of the ride. That took some self discipline. Only fucked up once. Or twice. Taking the rotor off might have worked better. Ride was not flat, I'll tell you that. Sucked.

But you can deal without taking the rotor off if necessary.

Centerlock is a solution in search of a problem that is worse in every possible way.

and I totally agree with this.

[jm2e]

Again, anything 2017 or newer with 130-160mm of travel will be a great bike. Even Diamondback and Mongoose are making decent bikes for fuck sake. This is a great time to get into the game without overthinking it all.


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[EWG]

When I was actually training and riding decent weekly hours, I found that my best defense was eating something quick and easy for immediate recovery. If I didn't have a plan, then I'd just eat and drink everything in sight.

So have a plan for getting off the bike. For me that was a lunch meat and cheese rollup or two. Maybe tortilla, mayo, meat cheese. Fats and protein. Eat two and get into the shower immediately to let that food sink in. Then back to a normal meal after the shower. That routine gave me good recovery and kept me from binging (so I could drop the extra lbs)

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Ha. Until I was maybe 32 my nutrition plan was simply to eat everything I could find, all the time. Never gained weight. As a teenager I used to eat ketchup just for the calories. And I hate ketchup. Sometimes just getting enough calories is a big help.

Changed as I got older.

[BCtransplant]

This is a great time to get into the game without overthinking it all.


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Perfect, my specialty.

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

Some good stuff in here regarding diet. I am still trying to figure it out. I am a classic bachelor with little cooking skill (or patience).

Currently training with a coach for enduro racing. 3 structured rides per week (1 day of Zone 4 intervals, one day of Zone 2 steady state, and one day of LSD). Add to that 1 or 2 "fun" rides as well as sometimes skiing 3 days a week. Hard.

I often feel like I simply cannot get enough food into my body. I am 5'7" @ 153lbs. 161 VO2 max. I burn fat right away on the bike and only burn carbs when I am getting into Zone 5 HR.

Lots of nights I can't fall asleep cause I am starving or wake up at 2am feeling hollow.

3-4 eggs fried in coco oil + 3/4 pieces of uncured bacon or some elk breakfast sausage. Big bowl of oats + butter + honey. I live for breakfast.

Lunch I often damn near forget about it or am too busy with work or skiing or riding. I know this is a big part of my problem. I eat some Pro Bars or snack on almonds. Not nearly enough. Maybe a can of yellowfin tuna in olive oil.

Dinner is usually some kind of healthy stuff from the CO-OP that is pre-made, or salmon patties at home, or cauliflower chicken. Been gluten free for 4 years. I just feel WAY better without the inflammation.

I think I really need to up my intake or all the training is going to get me nowhere. It's like I don't get hungry until I feel like I am gonna pass out most days and then I'm like, "Oh yeah....food is probably a good idea."

[Dantheman]

Sciencey answer: moar food.

[brutah]

Hydration and stretching is the key to recovery for me. I have to stretch or do yoga everyday or my whole body starts falling apart.

[skaredshtles]

Sciencey answer: moar food.

He needs to eat more fucking tacos.

[climberevan]

WG might take something from this video. Eat through the day--the majority of your calories should come before dinner. Carbs are not the enemy. I eat a shitload of bread (that I bake), but if WG really has celiac he can find something else that works. Bacon/sausage and coconut oil are not energy sources for training.

I make rice bars instead of eating packaged bars, but when you're getting after it your body just needs sugar, so even cheap Nature Valley granola bars are fine. 5'7' and 153# isn't anywhere close to starving-thin, so I suspect the problem is more in the carb deficit and timing of intake.

I'll say it again: carbs are not the enemy (for athletes, not sedentary folk).

https://youtu.be/jlf9q_Ob3tk

[joetron]

You might want to try some sort of recovery drink for right after your rides and workouts. I really like Hammer Recoverite Chocolate.


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[rideit]

He needs to eat more fucking tacos.

TIP: Do NOT google ‘fucking tacos’.

EDIT: ah, what the hell, it wasn’t that bad.

[skaredshtles]

but if WG really has celiac he can find something else that works.

Yeah. Like fucking tacos.

[jm2e]

https://youtu.be/jlf9q_Ob3tk

Emily Batty gets a lot of likes, views, screen time, etc. I don’t think it’s necessarily all because of her results.



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[Dantheman]

This Dave Tate story may be apocryphal, it's semi-relevant at best since it's from powerlifting, and I don't recommend actually doing this, but I still love it:

There was a time at the Old Westside gym where I couldn’t gain weight to save my fucking life.

There was this dude who trained there who could just put on weight like fucking magic. He’d go from 198 to 308 and then to 275 and back down to 198. And he was never fat. It was amazing.

I finally asked him one day how he did it.

“You mean I never told you the secret to gaining weight? Come outside and I’ll fill you in.”

Now remember, we’re at Westside Barbell. And this guy wants to go outside to talk so no one else can hear. Think about that for a minute. What the hell is he going to tell me? This must be some serious shit if we have to go outside, I thought.

So we get outside and he starts talking.

“For breakfast you need to eat four of those breakfast sandwiches from McDonalds. I don’t care which ones you get, but make sure to get four. Order four hash browns, too. Now grab two packs of mayonnaise and put them on the hash browns and then slip them into the sandwiches. Squish that shit down and eat. That’s your breakfast.”

At this point I’m thinking this guy is nuts. But he’s completely serious.

“For lunch you’re gonna eat Chinese food. Now I don’t want you eating that crappy stuff. You wanna get the stuff with MSG. None of that non-MSG bullshit. I don’t care what you eat but you have to sit down and eat for at least 45 minutes straight. You can’t let go of the fork. Eat until your eyes swell up and become slits and you start to look like the woman behind the counter.”

“For dinner you’re gonna order an extra-large pizza with everything on it. Literally everything. If you don’t like sardines, don’t put ’em on, but anything else that you like you have to load it on there. After you pay the delivery guy, I want you to take the pie to your coffee table, open that fucker up, and grab a bottle of oil. It can be olive oil, canola oil, whatever. Anything but motor oil. And I want you to pour that shit over the pie until half of the bottle is gone. Just soak the shit out of it.”

“Now before you lay into it, I want you to sit on your couch and just stare at that fucker. I want you to understand that that pizza right there is keeping you from your goals.”

This guy is in a zen-like state when he’s talking about this.

“Now you’re on the clock,” he continues. “After 20 minutes your brain is going to tell you you’re full. Don’t listen to that shit. You have to try and eat as much of the pizza as you can before that 20-minute mark. Double up pieces if you have to. I’m telling you now, you’re going to get three or four pieces in and you’re gonna want to quit. You fucking can’t quit. You have to sit on that couch until every piece is done.

And if you can’t finish it, don’t you ever come back to me and tell me you can’t gain weight. ’Cause I’m gonna tell you that you don’t give a fuck about getting bigger and you don’t care how much you lift!”

Did I do it? Hell yeah. Started the next day and did it for two months. Went from 260 pounds to 297 pounds. And I didn’t get much fatter. One of the hardest things I’ve ever done in my life, though.


The takeaway for a cyclist is that if you're training seriously, you need to treat eating just as seriously as your workouts. Eating shit-tons of food is hard--don't sabotage yourself by training like a beast and eating like a bitch.

As far as what to eat, basically what Evan said. Carbs are not evil (now if only I could un-brainwash the wife on this point, but I digress), quite the opposite, especially for the type of racing you do, WG. If you want to eat the healthiest carbs possible I think tubers are king, but don't get too picky. For the love of God stop skipping/skimping on lunch. Breakfast seems OK, depending on how many cups of oats you're actually eating. Double the size of your other two meals and probaby add some snacks, too. Eat like it's a second job and do it for at least a month. If you start getting fat then back it off a bit. If you don't get fat, eat more.

Remember, that plate of food sitting in front of you is your enemy and must be destroyed