Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD aka Hawk Extended aka HawX

[onenerdykid]

I figured that diff external molds and internal lasts/plugs were necessary for boots where weight is a concern. I mention this because it recently came to my attention that the external mold of a very popular alpine boot is the same whether you get it in the "normal volume" or "standard volume" version. They just switch up the internal plug meaning the narrower one has far more plastic to work with..

And just to add- whenever a brand makes one external mold for a shell and two internal lasts, the narrower boot will be heavier and stiffer because the shell is simply thicker. Conversely, the wider boot will be lighter and softer since the shell is thinner. It's not night and day different, but it is a difference you can feel when you have them on side by side.

[doebedoe]

And just to add- whenever a brand makes one external mold for a shell and two internal lasts, the narrower boot will be heavier and stiffer because the shell is simply thicker. Conversely, the wider boot will be lighter and softer since the shell is thinner. It's not night and day different, but it is a difference you can feel when you have them on side by side.

Yep. And it once again goes to show that 130 != 130 != 130 when it comes to boots. You can't take away 2mm of plastic from the boot and have the same flex profile.

[anotherVTskibum]

Thanks for the input. Definitely can't expect something with a walk mode to ski like an RS. Gotta have compromise somewhere with a touring capable boot.
I'm actually hoping the ultra will fit my foot better than the RS which took quite a bit of boot work to really get into.
It'd be rad if the BSL of the hawx in a 31.5 was similar to my lange (356bsl) and i could pick a boot depending on the day and ski in bounds or out since im going to go CAST.
Now to see if i can even find a pair in 31.5 or 32. Oof this is gonna be expensive.
If anyone has a source let me know - most i've called say they can't get em. Might have to call Atomic directly and see who bought em. Thats how i found my Langes.

Have you tried SkiBootRX in Billings, Montana? Tim (the owner) posts on here occasionally, although I'm not sure what he's got available for boots right now.

Re: comparing to a race boot, I'm a race coach (and former racer, albeit not a very good one); I've skied in various AT boots over the past 10-15 years or so and I'm skiing the Prime XTD as my everyday coaching boot, and if they'd fit in the race-series bindings (yes, wrong thread), I think I'd be willing to ski actual race skis with them. If I ever get time, I'm hoping to get out and compare them to the Lange Freetour XT 140 at some point, but without doing a straight A vs B comparison, I'd say both boots are capable of driving most skis. I skied the Freetours with a 30m FIS GS ski on a few occasions last year, and the only reason I won't do the same this year is the GripWalk soles on the Hawx.

I did finally got a new pair of actual race boots this year (Atomic Redster TI 130). The edge engagement is much more precise and the overall energy transmission is more significant, which is generally helpful on hard snow but not necessarily so great in 3D surface conditions, but there's no way in hell I'm spending every coaching day in them. I do think there's probably a physical limit as to what you can achieve with a functional walk mode in terms of energy transmission.

For fit comparison, I did downsize the RS per the rep's recommendation ("if you're going to get a race boot, why not do it right?"), so I'm skiing a 25.5 RS and a 26.5 Prime XTD; I was also in a 26.5 Freetour, which fit beautifully without even needing to bake the liners. Both the Hawx and the RS required baking liners and shells; the Hawx I probably could've tolerated without doing that, at least for a couple of hours; the RS I couldn't even get the right boot on out of the box, and after moderate grinding, still needs more for my toes to retain circulation.

[Skiwurrel]

Man those buckles are fked. I'm actually thinking of putting one ratcheting buckle diagonally instead of the two lowers, any other good solutions people have? Also getting foot in n out, at least I switched to power wrap but that bottom she'll is painful mang

[Sashko]

Anyone tried ZipFit liners with Ultra XTDs shell? Do they improve downhill skiing? How are they on uphill?

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

Dumb question - I have a new pair of last years Hawx. I want to add the rear spoiler, but I’m not seeing where to attach it to the boot. Do I just drill into the cuff?

[gregL]

Dumb question - I have a new pair of last years Hawx. I want to add the rear spoiler, but I’m not seeing where to attach it to the boot. Do I just drill into the cuff?

You want more forward lean? Small calf? If you're sure you want it, drill the cuff. If not, duct tape it on and try it first (stock forward lean of 15 degrees is aggressive by current standards).

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

Good idea on taping it on first. I’m 6’3” with long legs so it’s mostly that a taller boot feels more natural to me. Could be in my head, but I’ve run spoilers for years and kind of used to it by now

[LC]

Anyone have advice for liners with a goal to reduce volume in the XTDs?

I went for the XTD 120 because of the thicker stock liner for very skinny foot - I have skied unmodified 98mm Salomon Falcon/X3/Ghost variations forever now for alpine. I have maybe 50 days on them and sometimes last spring the forefoot felt very loose and having the heel a bit snugger wouldn't hurt. Stiffening the flex would be good too (yeah I should have just gotten the 130s). I haven't been out on them this winter yet but will do in a couple of days as-is, maybe add a volume reducer under the liner on the next day but I think a thicker foam liner will be the plan sooner or later.

Palau is easily available over here and cheaper than Intuition - I've been looking at their All Track Power & Power LT (8mm & 10mm foam), I guess 10mm if I want to reduce volume more? Or what are my best Intuition options? Would a wrap liner add more stiffness, and would I give up a lot in how they walk? In my vulcans I went from a Palau liner that came out of a Dalbello Virus to a Palau wrap and thought they still walked fine.

[Dromond]

I’ve got maybe 50+ days touring on my XTDs and there is noticeable play in the cuff rivets. Do I just need to replace the wear part in there or tighten them up? Did I miss a post about this earlier in the thread?

[onenerdykid]

I’ve got maybe 50+ days touring on my XTDs and there is noticeable play in the cuff rivets. Do I just need to replace the wear part in there or tighten them up? Did I miss a post about this earlier in the thread?

Are yours screwed or riveted? If the former, start with tightening the screwed hardware and add Loctite as needed.

If the Igus bushings are worn out, they are fully replaceable. I don't have the part number handy, but any Atomic dealer can order them for you (same part for all Backland and Hawx XTD boots).

[kid-kapow]

Anyone have advice for liners with a goal to reduce volume in the XTDs?
....
Palau is easily available over here and cheaper than Intuition ... Or what are my best Intuition options? Would a wrap liner add more stiffness, and would I give up a lot in how they walk?

If you have the mimic liners then I would just give them a go, or if you have the platinum liners then go to shop.atomic.com and buy the mimic ones - and take them to an Atomic dealer to have them fitted. They are really quite affordable imho, pretty spectacular bang for buck.

If the volume reduction need is in the lower parts of the boot then perhaps try a custom footbed, if in the upper, then move the buckles and add a booster strap and see if that is enough.

The XTDs are really excellent boots imho. I have used them with xtd120 liners for inbounds and ProTours for touring and can't say enough good things about them. I bought a pair of XT3 130s for inbounds use this year to get a slightly heavier boot, but I have yet to try them - the XTD130 shell + 120 liner combo just ski so well.

[Dromond]

Are yours screwed or riveted? If the former, start with tightening the screwed hardware and add Loctite as needed.

If the Igus bushings are worn out, they are fully replaceable. I don't have the part number handy, but any Atomic dealer can order them for you (same part for all Backland and Hawx XTD boots).

Thanks for the tip. Mine are screwed tight so the bushing must be worn out. Time to call up the dealer.

[LC]

If you have the mimic liners then I would just give them a go, or if you have the platinum liners then go to shop.atomic.com and buy the mimic ones - and take them to an Atomic dealer to have them fitted. They are really quite affordable imho, pretty spectacular bang for buck.

If the volume reduction need is in the lower parts of the boot then perhaps try a custom footbed, if in the upper, then move the buckles and add a booster strap and see if that is enough.

Interesting, I didn't know that Atomic sold liners directly.

Well I got the boots in late 2017 so I think my liner predates both of those labelled Ultra XTD in the Atomic shop: the Platinum and the Mimic Platinum. Mine look more like the Mimic Platinum but not exactly. Labelled Memoryfit 3D Gold at the back of the cuff. Do you know if the Mimic Platinum is thicker and/or stiffer than the stock one from my late-2017 Ultra XTD 120s?

I have only been out once on the boots so far this winter, which was a very stormy tour to sketchy snow on new skis so couldn't really assess the fit too well. I remember last spring feeling a little loose in the forefoot and ankle. The fit at the cuff is fine; I have already moved the buckle racks over, trimmed the lowest parts of the overlaps to make them sit nicer, and cut notches at the sides of the top of the cuff to run a Booster between shell and liner, and custom footbeds akways. I want to get a proper assessment on snow of how they currently fit, maybe add a layer of material between shell and liner to see how that does but would be good to know liner options too.

[kid-kapow]

they are more adjustable and according to Matt they are superior, and I would take him at his word - he is one of the wizards behind these boots after all. I have not tried it myself, but would def get a pair if not for the XT3 purchase and slight shift in tasks for my current pair of xtd130s.

The 120 liner does not tour amazingly imho, at least my first year 120 liner does not at least. It skis extremely well though.

If you feel that you current liner is not ideal then the 2021 Mimic liner is an easy recommend (especially at the current price), more so than Palau or Intuition. I've only had one Palau liner and it left me somewhat wanting for more. Intuition tours very well, but are prone to not keeping their fit and I've found Atomic liners to ski better. Sacrilege I know.

[eSock]

After setting the forward lean to 13 degrees and getting intuitions for touring and using my (lange rx) liners in for inbounds riding - I am a huge fan. They fit super well and perform exceptionally.

That said, fuck getting in and out of them, feels like performing an exorcism every time.

[oldirty]

After setting the forward lean to 13 degrees and getting intuitions for touring and using my (lange rx) liners in for inbounds riding - I am a huge fan. They fit super well and perform exceptionally.

That said, fuck getting in and out of them, feels like performing an exorcism every time.

Not sure if its been said but a shoe horn slipped behind the heal when taking them off is very helpful.

[onenerdykid]

Interesting, I didn't know that Atomic sold liners directly.

Well I got the boots in late 2017 so I think my liner predates both of those labelled Ultra XTD in the Atomic shop: the Platinum and the Mimic Platinum. Mine look more like the Mimic Platinum but not exactly. Labelled Memoryfit 3D Gold at the back of the cuff. Do you know if the Mimic Platinum is thicker and/or stiffer than the stock one from my late-2017 Ultra XTD 120s?

The new Mimic Platinum liner will have a very similar out-of-the-box feel that your 3D Gold liner has, but it is made with different materials that allow it to fully mold to your ankle/heel and harden in that shape. The plastic tongue and plastic cuff are also made from moldable plastic, so they will mold to your shin & calf respectively during the Mimic fitting process. This liner should definitely be on your short list of replacement options.

[LC]

The new Mimic Platinum liner will have a very similar out-of-the-box feel that your 3D Gold liner has, but it is made with different materials that allow it to fully mold to your ankle/heel and harden in that shape. The plastic tongue and plastic cuff are also made from moldable plastic, so they will mold to your shin & calf respectively during the Mimic fitting process. This liner should definitely be on your short list of replacement options.

Sounds good, thanks. I'll get a few real days out on the boots to see first and will pay the Atomic shop a visit if a new liner is sounding the best solution.

[Dromond]

Does anyone know if the Igus pivot bushing on the XTD can be ordered directly online anywhere? I called the dealer and am waiting to get an email back about their availability from Atomic.

[Benneke10]

I want to get a lighter liner to save some weight. I have the new 130 version with the Mimic liners and they ski well but they're overkill for my needs. I know people have good results with the Intuition Pro Tour but I'm hoping for something a little cheaper and lighter. Anybody tried using Palau liners in their Hawx? I'm looking at the All Track Power and the regular All Track, both are 10mm thick, lighter and cheaper than Intuition. Anything else I should be looking at?

[tgapp]

I want to get a lighter liner to save some weight. I have the new 130 version with the Mimic liners and they ski well but they're overkill for my needs. I know people have good results with the Intuition Pro Tour but I'm hoping for something a little cheaper and lighter. Anybody tried using Palau liners in their Hawx? I'm looking at the All Track Power and the regular All Track, both are 10mm thick, lighter and cheaper than Intuition. Anything else I should be looking at?

i haven't used 'em in Hawx specifically but I have used Palau extensively, they make great shit. not quite as warm as intuition but much better range of motion

[HukuTa_KydecHuk]

Anyone has new XTD130 with mimic liners? I skied mine for 2 weeks and since day 1 my boots are leaking significantly through the ovelap part at the toe... After skiing -15-20F days instantly felt that my feet are cold. Took liners off and toes are all wet. Started cranking both lower part buckles to 2nd or even 3rd hook right before going out from home but they are still leaking.

[anotherVTskibum]

Anyone has new XTD130 with mimic liners? I skied mine for 2 weeks and since day 1 my boots are leaking significantly through the ovelap part at the toe... After skiing -15-20F days instantly felt that my feet are cold. Took liners off and toes are all wet. Started cranking both lower part buckles to 2nd or even 3rd hook right before going out from home but they are still leaking.

I've got this year's Prime XTD, with no such issues even in sloppy conditions (wet enough that the exterior layer of my GoreTex pants was still soaked the following morning), and I have spent seven or eight hours in them at a stretch on a lot of weekend days (I'm a race coach).

I generally have the toe buckle on the second rung, I think, but it's definitely just tight enough to keep the buckle closed; if I'm on the lift or standing around, I'll open all the buckles. I don't know if that plays into the sealing aspect.

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[Benneke10]

I'm in Utah so our conditions aren't very wet but I have noticed that my Mimic liners are usually a bit damp at the end of longer ski days, haven't tested them in super wet conditions yet but I am not looking forward to it