ON3P SKIS Discussion

[Tailwind]

Thats been on the radar to for sure. The On3p people seem to press me toward the normal Billy Goat, instead of the supergoat, every time I message with them though.

I’ve wondered how a Super Goat with Res would pivot in deep snow compared to the Wren. On tired legs, in tight steep trees the Wren is a bit of work, but that’s mainly a 3pm issue... I have some Line Pescado’s I use for playful and tight terrain, but I’ve been interested in a chargy ski for deep days that at least isn’t more work than the Wren at slow speeds. Ideally a little looser and more drifty as well. Super goat, Billy Goat and Cease and Desist have all been pondered.

If the charger wren is your favorite, SuperGoat or go home. IMHO

[jackattack]

Thats been on the radar to for sure. The On3p people seem to press me toward the normal Billy Goat, instead of the supergoat, every time I message with them though.

I’ve wondered how a Super Goat with Res would pivot in deep snow compared to the Wren.

Any of the RES skis will pivot and drift easier than the Wren. You should just beg steal or borrow to get a run or two on the BG. The reason they have a cult following is that they're so unique.

The SG is a little slower to come around than the standard BG but it trucks. It's extremely damp (probably more than the wren) and quite heavy. "Carve" is not really in its vocabulary. It won't be super forgiving at 3pm, it still wants the fall line, but I have been in that position, and switching to a different ski didn't improve my skiing.

However, being in CO, the deep blower would probably be best met by the C&D or Protest.

How many more months until winter?

[Kopi_Red]

^^^ This guy knows his stuff.

[RudyGarmisch]

Found my touring doppelgänger - Steeple 102’s vs Woodsman 96’s.

[Norseman]

I'm late in this response but I wanted to acknowledge Scott's thoughtful replies and exciting information.

For a laugh, check out the discussion last fall starting here, leading up to this recent reveal of the touring line.

TOUR SKIS
Stocked tour skis will be BG Tour, BG 108 Tour, Woodsman 108 Tour, Jeffrey 108 Tour.

On custom, those options will expand out slightly to the Woodsman 96/102, Jeffrey 102.

We have a 189cm BG 108 Tour coming, but that length was one that we went back and forth on, so will see if there is enough interest to keep it around after 1 year. The BG 108 will be available in all 3 layups on custom, but only stocked in the Tour Layup.


CUSTOM LAYUP OPTIONS
We have 3 layup options coming.

Stock layup is using a new custom hybrid glass/carbon composite we've been working on a few years. This is for several reasons - primarily that it is a stronger bonding material than takes the uni-carbon off the core, in place of solid 45/45 glass, is heavier in its overall weight and thus has allows us to drop some weight on our cores (with the virus slow down, we're behind hundreds of skis, so the final weights for all the new skis are still being worked on, but in skis that were running 22oz fiberglass we're seeing a drop of about 100 grams/ski), and saves us a bit of production time as its only one material to prep (though cost sort of negates that). This change is across the board, so we did see a slight increase in weight in some of the 19oz based skis (specifically the Magnus). A lot stronger though, so worth the slight weight increase IMO.

50/50 is our new tour specific core, same composites, but also build with our stock base / edge. This is a custom only option.

Lastly Tour is our new tour specific core, same composites, but sigh....also thinner base and edge. 1.4mm 4001 base still - so not a huge drop from 1.8mm - but a narrower edge too. The weight savings were just too much to ignore. This is the layup that will be used on the standard ski line tour skis.

We're still getting pricing and finalizing the supply of this core right now - so full details won't be out until we have everything finalized (US sourced, so they've had similar virus delays as we have), but will be out shortly. Won't be the lightest - but that wasn't our goal.


RES
BG just the change in core profile/layup.
CD no change.


WRENEGADE
Wren 96 Ti and 108 Ti will be able to be ordered on custom if you want them (just email us), but we won't be stocking them. Sales on the Woodsman have been so good that we're pretty all in on that line.
Wren going ironically a bit back to where it was. 2 skis - 102 Ti and 110 Pro.
110 Pro is 186cm only, older rocker profile, big radius. Likely a preorder type deal for it as I only expect to build them 1x per year. We love the brand and the original intention of the skis, so this is about as true to that as we've had since we cut the 113.
102 has a tighter radius than 108, a bit more tip taper, and we moved the mount point on the 179/184 back about 1cm each. 189cm mount stayed the same.
I've been pretty clear that I think for most skiers the TI is best on a ski seeing lots of hard snow, hence the focus on a width that is going to see more use in harder conditions.


WOODSMAN
Woodsman gets new width - 102.
96 gets tighter radius + new core profile/layup.
108 gets minor sidecut tweak + new core profile/layup.
116 gets minor sidecut tweak, flex made a bit softer + new core profile/layup.
Moved the mount point back 0.75cm across the line.
Flex on 177/182 made a bit softer in all widths.


JEFFREY
Jeffrey gets new width - 102.
96 gets tighter radius + new core profile/layup.
108 gets new core profile/layup.
116 gets tighter radius + new core profile/layup.


TI on CUSTOM
Woodsman 96/102/108 and Jeffrey 96/102/108 will be available with Titanal on custom.
We hadn't planned bringing metal to the BG because I just truly don't know who that would be for, but if there is interest we could make it happen.


MAGNUS
Magnus profile updated to give a bit more stiffness behind the heal.
Shape unchanged.
On custom, the Magnus 102 will be able to be ordered fully edgeless.


MERA
New women's Woodsman-variant called the Mera - comes in 102 to start. 162/167/172.


JESSIE
Jessie 108 goes custom only (+ new core profile/layup), and adds a 102.
Updated radius on the 96 + new core profile/layup.


GRAPHICS
3 new custom camo tops/bases.
Update to all the team tops/bases so the colors are now see thru to show the carbon layup.
Limited quantity Hackel and Mango Team skis coming (Magnus 102 with their own tops/bases).
5 new sidewall colors (blue, yellow, orange, coral, aqua + existing green/white/black).

As I said above, any of this years Wren shapes (96, 108) can be ordered on custom at standard custom pricing if you would like them. Just put a note when ordering. We have a sub-100mm option on that drawing board that we might bring to market eventually, though not sure it will be able to fit in in terms of production volume (as we expect new 102s and tour skis to take up sizable portion of production).

When we looked at where the Wrens were going and what we felt was the areas it excelled (I've not held back that I think for softer skiing conditions, the stock layup is a higher performer), dropping to what essentially is a do it all continental snowpack width just made the most sense. I personally just don't think we see enough hard snow in the PNW to take it out over the WD 108, and styles and what people look for in skis has (at least as it pertains to our sales and questions) shifted towards platforms that are a bit more modern and 'fun". The Woodsman 96 also crushed a lot of the demos that had hard snow, so with both the 96/102 available there, just made since to simplify the Wren side of the line.

As for Wren 110 - color no one here surprised. Hence the one size. We love that end of the Wren spectrum as a platform, but most skier just don't fall in that category anymore. It's sort of like the SG, in that I bet we sell a few pairs to the few people interested and then market is tapped.

It's overdue but sometimes just how things work out.

So the goals of the glass were to increase stiffness & strength of the glass itself (off a 22oz baseline) - which in process would allow us to drop core weight - but also to improve the bond strength against the core. So where before we had both uni-carbon and 45/45 glass (outside the uni-carbon) on the core, now the bond surface in fully 45/45 glass. We then moved the carbon up into the 0 degree layer with the fiberglass. In that process - we removed some of the fiberglass strands to replace them with carbon, and increased the weight of the rest of the glass to account for the strands lost to the carbon and increase the strength to the overall composite.

Perk on our end now is that we also get to prep less material (though our material costs are higher). Given the cost to do this, we standardize almost the entire line to it (a few stragglers remain - CD, CM). It also means that flex changes on custom now are now done in the core profile itself, not the composites. With that, the options to adjust flex will be more limited than in the past, but will cover the flex changes we actually saw in scale (softer Magnus, softer Jeffrey being the vast majority of the changes in flex).

Attachment 329157

[Norseman]

cont...

We wanted to keep them really damp so kept the 100% bamboo core. We did a run of custom topped CD already that avg weight came in 2400, which I mean....if we're talking this heavy an extra 50 grams is a bit whatever. We'll kick the tires on some different options for 2022 but a lot of other models took up our attention this year. With a low volume model like the CD, you can always email us and ask us to pick a pair that is on the lighter side of average.

90% of the time just means it was made with a generic topsheet that is not size specific. SIA sample skis, demos, etc. Usually by the time graphic is ready ski design is done.

Not necessarily. With a mount change comes a change to sidecut, core profile, binding mat...so your Woodsman are designed to be skied at that recommended line. The vast majority of people skied them there this past season. We wanted to shorten the tail just slightly and felt - at their current stiffness - a bit more tip to drive would be better compared to a bit more playfulness/balance, hence the change. 0.75cm isn't a huge change here, so I wouldn't stress about it to much. If you like a more directional ski, move it back. If not, stick where it is.

I really don't follow the weights of other brands much (should probably check those out), still seems like we'll be on the heavier end of things, but internally we're all really happy on the balance of weight and stability. We had a few lighter core variants we were also testing that didn't include bamboo, but we were pretty dead set to make bamboo work.

As soon as we crank out a few more pairs to up our data set will post weights. Just a bit behind there from Covid.

I probably sounded more bummed than I am. Call it more just laughing at how things work out. Just some context - but we've been building these proto cores in house for about 3 years, and there has been a lot of discussion with more than a few suppliers about them. You don't bring a process in house unless there is inherent value in doing so (and core blanks aren't exactly a super complex process). Until maybe mid March, we literally never had a serious conversation about bringing them in house (over the past 2-3 years), so for us to decide to start building production cores ourselves would have proven quite the shock to everyone here from even 3 months ago.

Some points to highlight and riff on...

The move to the new composite is interesting. I was unaware that there was ever a strength issue with the old layup, but my ski-bubble does not include park, and it sounds like the Adidas Tracksuit Straight-Legged Mitten-Flailing Gumbi crew were really the only ones to flex the skis deeply enough to delaminate them...

But it's cool to see a custom composite weave updating the build for almost the whole lineup, especially with core work really coming into focus as both an innovation path and as the method of customizing flex going forward. I like the character of the core wood to be clearly evident (duh, this is why the bamboo skis have such a following) and feel like some of the layups out there can mask this property with too much carbon or glass. I'm assuming that with the commitment to the new weave you're also happy with the snow feel? Is there any noticeable difference in damping or pop?

What about torsional properties of the new weave? With most of the cores slimming down slightly but getting a different composite, does the new standard layup change in torsional stiffness? Tangentially, I assume that the ti laminate's primary effect is to stiffen the ski torsionally, best applied on firm surfaces of course (perhaps too bitey for west coast standard pack, per Scott's recc of the standard build unless primarily skiing firm)... and wonder how the new layup and ti builds will coexist.

Heard on the Blister podcast that Paulownia is indeed the other constituent of the tour cores alongside bamboo. Scott, Alex, can you expand on this? I'm curious about where you're placing each wood and what the blend is.

Graphics: The new sidewall color choices sound fun. And I'm really digging the new base colors as seen in the insta feed.

Rocker profiles... will the narrower RES skis carry over the same rocker lines of the wider ones?

The RES touring line will be a slam dunk I bet. I'm also keen on seeing the weight of the Woodsman 96 Tour on custom.

Veneers... still offering these?

[phatty]

I'm curious about the titanal custom option for the Woodsman 108. How much impact on the stability/playability continuum will there be?

[beeeom]

Almost have the quiver dialed for next year... Just need to swap the Kingpins to the 191cm BG's and install a CAST set-up on the asym BG's once they're available again.

Low tide:
186cm Jeffrey 110/P18

Daily Resort:
186 BG/FKS18

Daily Touring:
189 asym BG/CAST

Nipple Deep:
191 BG/Kingpin

[Quandary]

ON3P's come with a 1/1 edge bevel from the factory. Does everyone run them 1/1 or are folks playing with the bevel?

[CallMeAl]

ON3P's come with a 1/1 edge bevel from the factory. Does everyone run them 1/1 or are folks playing with the bevel?

I do 1° on the side and 2° on the bottom on my BGs and Woodsman 116s. I find it noticeably easier/more fun to roll them over on hardpack. Everything else I have in my personal quiver is 108, and I run it 1/1.

Norse, I just got my first pair of skis with the new tour core today. From L-R, core goes P,B,P,B,P. RES rocker profiles are all the same. I'll let Iggy clarify the rest, shit's above my pay grade.

[AZskibum]

Fair to say that if the k96 is my hardpack ski, then I'd probably like it a bit more with a 1/2, or is there more to it than that?

[tuco]

I do 1° on the side and 2° on the bottom on my BGs and Woodsman 116s. I find it noticeably easier/more fun to roll them over on hardpack. Everything else I have in my personal quiver is 108, and I run it 1/1.

Norse, I just got my first pair of skis with the new tour core today. From L-R, core goes P,B,P,B,P. RES rocker profiles are all the same. I'll let Iggy clarify the rest, shit's above my pay grade.

Just you're personal skis tuned like this or were the Woodsie protos I got from you tuned this way? I knew I liked extra bevel(not necessarily more angle, but bevel extending into base. Essentially slightly base high). They skied perfect for me right out the gate.
I was working through serious hooking issues with my SG's when the season abruptly ended.

[CallMeAl]

Fair to say that if the k96 is my hardpack ski, then I'd probably like it a bit more with a 1/2, or is there more to it than that?

I like that ski at 1/1, but I've never tried anything else to be honest. Part of that is because they're in my demo fleet, and I like to keep my demos tuned as neutral as possible so they can accommodate as many skiing styles/turn shapes as possible.

Just you're personal skis tuned like this or were the Woodsie protos I got from you tuned this way? I knew I liked extra bevel(not necessarily more angle, but bevel extending into base. Essentially slightly base high). They skied perfect for me right out the gate.
I was working through serious hooking issues with my SG's when the season abruptly ended.

Nope, those should be 1/1 (see above for reasoning). They're significantly detuned in the tips/tails though. They were the slightly stiffer/straighter protos right? Pretty sure I gave those some substantial gummy love so some of the lighter/slower skiing customers could bring them around easier.

[kid-kapow]

[MHSP1497]

Except that the Jeffrey series hasn’t dropped yet and it’s after June 22... Still patiently waiting to see the new graphics. Gonna be ordering a set for this upcoming season.

[Doremite]

Except that the Jeffrey series hasn’t dropped yet and it’s after June 22... Still patiently waiting to see the new graphics. Gonna be ordering a set for this upcoming season.

I had an active email chain going w Iggy on a blem purchase and then he went radio silent. I assumed he was just busy getting the 2021s live while also dealing w a very sick pet but maybe something even more serious up w/ the 6/22 deadline miss?? Hope all ok in ON3P land.

[iggyskier]

Missed part of this week + large portions of the last two weeks (truly last two months, but alas) with Dante - who died Monday evening. Just ended up proving very time intensive as we went from essentially cat critical care two weeks ago to basically cat hospice late last week. In early April, he came back from a similar situation with a lot of care and honestly, as of about 3 weeks ago, seemed like we might have found a spot that would have worked for awhile. He had good blood work - for the vets here, creatinine holding 2.5-3.2 (down from 8.5+), BUN around 40 (down from about 130), phosphorus around 4 (down from as high as 12), was eating on his own (I had been supplementing his calories by syringe feeding 2x/day before this), good mood, jumping around, alert, etc. That came crashing down though about 2.5 weeks ago as he ended up fluid overloaded- 2.5 nights in cat ICU - and he just ended up far too gone after having to hold him off of fluids while he body recovered from that, so finally made call on Monday after his comfort level/function really hit a wall over the weekend.

Took some time last two days and getting my bearings this evening - but should have updates to timeline for everything tomorrow. Obviously have quite a bit of email to catch up on, plus bunch of skis to ship.

Most 2021 drops likely pushed about 5 days or so from listed drop date. Will work through all those dates tomorrow. With Covid, most everything starting late so going to be a bit of a strange line launch, but it is what it is. With that, Jeffrey should be up Friday. Graphically, bit louder this year, so hopefully people like it.

[Norseman]

Sorry about the cat, that sucks man.

[MHSP1497]

Sorry you lost your cat, man. It’s hard. We’ll be here when you’re feeling up to it. Take care of yourself.

[jackattack]

Losing a pet is the worst. Vibes.

[iggyskier]

Thanks guys. Had him and his brother since I was a junior in college (somehow they both made it out of college alive), so its been a pretty big change.




He was certainly a looker. Proved pretty tough to put up with the last couple months too.

[Adrgha]

Sorry for your loss, man. Beautiful cat.

Lost ours to sudden aggressive cancer last year, and that was a much harder blow than I ever imagined.

[AZskibum]

Iggy, great photos and gorgeous cat.

New sheets look great. Thanks for all you do for the community, and the sick skis.

[Doremite]

Ugh, sorry to hear, Iggy. Beauty of a cat. I feared this fate when I hadn’t heard from you. You’ll see this once you catch up on email but I need to either give you a different shipping address or have you hold off shipping me anything for awhile. Sincere condolences.

[steveski]

Sorry to hear, losing a pet sucks. I'm especially partial to orange cats, we had to put our orange tabby Hobbes down last fall. Hang in there and I hope all the good times and memories can be a comfort.