ON3P SKIS Discussion

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

Sounds like they will go great with my mediocre ability.

[Bandit Man]

Did ya'll ever think that maybe they're nothing more than perfectly average skis, or can you not even think over the furious fapping in this thread? Nothing like a circle jerk in an echo chamber to convince people something mediocre is actually great.

Isn’t that pretty much any “Brand X” dedicated thread on TGR or the web for that matter? For instance, I have struggled with clicking with any Praxis ski I have owned, yet they have a cult following with many mags. I don’t get it, but they can have their fun with their flavor of gear.

I love BG’s and C&D’s but haven’t clicked with many of the other ON3P skis I have tried. I am curious about the W108 based on actual skier input from people I know.

Anyhow, I do see your point. I wish we could just ski again and not swirl about it on the interwebz to pass COVID time.

[Orthoski]

Did ya'll ever think that maybe they're nothing more than perfectly average skis, or can you not even think over the furious fapping in this thread? Nothing like a circle jerk in an echo chamber to convince people something mediocre is actually great.

I actually welcome your opinion - I think that sometimes on this forum we come down too hard on anyone that disagrees with something, or who is a little bit new to the community and makes an accidental faux pas. I also think that just like music, not every song from a given band has to be a #1 hit. Certain shapes on ON3P really click for people and others don't (for some it's the BGs, for me the Jeffrey and also loved the Wren 88s) and there is something unique to their bamboo core that's a combination of damp and yet lively. That's all a matter of opinion and I learn from those who feel otherwise.

Ultimately, however, irrespective of how they ski, it's hard not to respect the commitment to build quality of ON3P, their commitment to treating their customers well, and the fact that many of us got to witness on this forum a company born out of a garage by a college student. Entrepreneurship is friggin' hard and scary - anyone that has been through it will tell you that. Therefore, a lot of us also draw joy from knowing that our $'s are supporting people in the community who chased a dream when so much of the rest of life is dominated by big companies. That's true whether they're making skis, jackets, gloves, running a non-chain ski shop, etc.

Now when's the snow coming back?

[tuco]

Did ya'll ever think that maybe they're nothing more than perfectly average skis, or can you not even think over the furious fapping in this thread? Nothing like a circle jerk in an echo chamber to convince people something mediocre is actually great.

Yeah, because you know things

[iggyskier]

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I reached out to all you guys individually (though didn't know your email STLHD - requested it over PM). I only know of one customer (also on here, who posted about his skis maybe 30 pages back) that found the Woodsman (96 in this case) hooky which we felt was likely the base bevel, but they got retuned before we got them back and the shop ground all the way into the base about 1mm per side, so we couldn't tell anything.

If people have issues, please reach out. That feedback loop is used to make adjustments to our tune, and I've haven't received this feedback outside of one person who called (and your email that I missed a month ago S). And we sold a ton of Woodsman (so much so that we added a width and trimmed the Wrens down).

I will say - we've definitely struggled a bit with our base edge tune consistency this year. We do a two part process - belt first, then finishing on a ceramic side/base edge and that machine had been giving us so much trouble last season that we pulled it off the line and went back to a full belt process until it can be serviced (up in the air on the virus end).

From the description of everyone here, it sounds like we blew the tune and your base bevel is too low. We also did tailor our gummi back a bit last winter (increased it again this cycle) so if your base bevel is too flat, especially first couple days with sharp ends, would be a pretty shitty ride. My apologies. As I said, I did reach out to everyone and will what we can to get them skiing right, as it's not a ski you should be seeing hooking on.

Feel free to give the factory a call if you are having issues too. We're just tomorrow finally returning to a normal work schedule.

The ski fairy recently dropped this off at my house,

Also interested me to see how people open our ski boxes. Hope you like them.

Did ya'll ever think that maybe they're nothing more than perfectly average skis, or can you not even think over the furious fapping in this thread? Nothing like a circle jerk in an echo chamber to convince people something mediocre is actually great.

Ben - thanks for the feedback. You've made it no secret you are not a fan of our skis the past couple years. While we're here, though, out of purely selfish curiosity - any actual feedback you can provide on skis you've spent time on recently?

As for the thread, the reason for setting up these brand threads was the insulate the rest of the forum from what you are stating is a problem inside the thread. One of the reason I tend to limit my posting online these days is specifically because any post I made can be construed as contributing to said circle jerk - something all of these threads exhibit. And I certainly have not been a fan of some of the pilling on I've seen here or on NS in response to posts - so I am certainly aware that there is at times a mob mentality.

As for the skis, certainly glad there is a brand that you find fits for you. I personally think it is a very good thing that my design philosophy is different than Luke's, or Keith's, or J's, and that we have a good group of different indie companies tailoring their skis to different tastes.

I'd purchase a Billygoat 108 with a lighter touring core in a heartbeat. I spend more time than I should hauling my standard layup BG's uphill all winter, so a lighter and slimmer offering would be just the ticket for me. In the meantime I have to say I'm enjoying the Wildcat tour 108's a lot, although I'd prefer slightly more.. heft.

It’s a great ski. Brought it up before but landed a pair of steeple 108 184 [BG shaped] with BG layup and it was my most used ski last year. Have a newer veneer 189 BG to compliment - and even still. Some of that has to do with teaching my son (cause they stand up well to him crossing over them). Could ski with him and then when it was time for free laps it’d have a versatile ski to hit anything in the pnw.

If indeed 108 BG becomes a thing it will be popular. I’d be tempted to 189 this new one.

Since it seems everyone is getting a bit restless, and we're close to dropping the start of the custom sale, happy to start talking about what is coming.

TOUR SKIS
Stocked tour skis will be BG Tour, BG 108 Tour, Woodsman 108 Tour, Jeffrey 108 Tour.

On custom, those options will expand out slightly to the Woodsman 96/102, Jeffrey 102.

We have a 189cm BG 108 Tour coming, but that length was one that we went back and forth on, so will see if there is enough interest to keep it around after 1 year. The BG 108 will be available in all 3 layups on custom, but only stocked in the Tour Layup.


CUSTOM LAYUP OPTIONS
We have 3 layup options coming.

Stock layup is using a new custom hybrid glass/carbon composite we've been working on a few years. This is for several reasons - primarily that it is a stronger bonding material than takes the uni-carbon off the core, in place of solid 45/45 glass, is heavier in its overall weight and thus has allows us to drop some weight on our cores (with the virus slow down, we're behind hundreds of skis, so the final weights for all the new skis are still being worked on, but in skis that were running 22oz fiberglass we're seeing a drop of about 100 grams/ski), and saves us a bit of production time as its only one material to prep (though cost sort of negates that). This change is across the board, so we did see a slight increase in weight in some of the 19oz based skis (specifically the Magnus). A lot stronger though, so worth the slight weight increase IMO.

50/50 is our new tour specific core, same composites, but also build with our stock base / edge. This is a custom only option.

Lastly Tour is our new tour specific core, same composites, but sigh....also thinner base and edge. 1.4mm 4001 base still - so not a huge drop from 1.8mm - but a narrower edge too. The weight savings were just too much to ignore. This is the layup that will be used on the standard ski line tour skis.

We're still getting pricing and finalizing the supply of this core right now - so full details won't be out until we have everything finalized (US sourced, so they've had similar virus delays as we have), but will be out shortly. Won't be the lightest - but that wasn't our goal.


RES
BG just the change in core profile/layup.
CD no change.


WRENEGADE
Wren 96 Ti and 108 Ti will be able to be ordered on custom if you want them (just email us), but we won't be stocking them. Sales on the Woodsman have been so good that we're pretty all in on that line.
Wren going ironically a bit back to where it was. 2 skis - 102 Ti and 110 Pro.
110 Pro is 186cm only, older rocker profile, big radius. Likely a preorder type deal for it as I only expect to build them 1x per year. We love the brand and the original intention of the skis, so this is about as true to that as we've had since we cut the 113.
102 has a tighter radius than 108, a bit more tip taper, and we moved the mount point on the 179/184 back about 1cm each. 189cm mount stayed the same.
I've been pretty clear that I think for most skiers the TI is best on a ski seeing lots of hard snow, hence the focus on a width that is going to see more use in harder conditions.


WOODSMAN
Woodsman gets new width - 102.
96 gets tighter radius + new core profile/layup.
108 gets minor sidecut tweak + new core profile/layup.
116 gets minor sidecut tweak, flex made a bit softer + new core profile/layup.
Moved the mount point back 0.75cm across the line.
Flex on 177/182 made a bit softer in all widths.


JEFFREY
Jeffrey gets new width - 102.
96 gets tighter radius + new core profile/layup.
108 gets new core profile/layup.
116 gets tighter radius + new core profile/layup.


TI on CUSTOM
Woodsman 96/102/108 and Jeffrey 96/102/108 will be available with Titanal on custom.
We hadn't planned bringing metal to the BG because I just truly don't know who that would be for, but if there is interest we could make it happen.


MAGNUS
Magnus profile updated to give a bit more stiffness behind the heal.
Shape unchanged.
On custom, the Magnus 102 will be able to be ordered fully edgeless.


MERA
New women's Woodsman-variant called the Mera - comes in 102 to start. 162/167/172.


JESSIE
Jessie 108 goes custom only (+ new core profile/layup), and adds a 102.
Updated radius on the 96 + new core profile/layup.


GRAPHICS
3 new custom camo tops/bases.
Update to all the team tops/bases so the colors are now see thru to show the carbon layup.
Limited quantity Hackel and Mango Team skis coming (Magnus 102 with their own tops/bases).
5 new sidewall colors (blue, yellow, orange, coral, aqua + existing green/white/black).

I think that covers most of it for now. Custom should be up this week now that we're finally returning to normal work. Stock line will be released in parts over the coming month so we have a reason to keep people entertained for a bit (spring promo content all feel through for obvious reasons).

[Muggydude]

As with Praxis, ON3P is a company I enjoy spending money and trying out skis from. Have had a few pairs I didn’t click with and sold, have some pairs I love and keep. Above all else though, the skis quality, durability, and customer service is such a step above any big box brand - I don’t see many if any skis from other companies in my future.

Scott, any inkling on weights for the BG 108 tour (184 specifically)? Thinking it will fit the bill to a T for the type of touring stick I’m looking for next season. Personally, I’m happy to see you guys are going thinner base/edges on that layup. Not even remotely concerned about durability considering how well the standard thicknesses hold up with the inbounds and park thrashing people put them through.

[optics]

Thanks Scott!

[The Suit]

I reached out to all you guys individually (though didn't know your email STLHD - requested it over PM). I only know of one customer (also on here, who posted about his skis maybe 30 pages back) that found the Woodsman (96 in this case) hooky which we felt was likely the base bevel, but they got retuned before we got them back and the shop ground all the way into the base about 1mm per side, so we couldn't tell anything.

If people have issues, please reach out. That feedback loop is used to make adjustments to our tune, and I've haven't received this feedback outside of one person who called (and your email that I missed a month ago S). And we sold a ton of Woodsman (so much so that we added a width and trimmed the Wrens down).

I will say - we've definitely struggled a bit with our base edge tune consistency this year. We do a two part process - belt first, then finishing on a ceramic side/base edge and that machine had been giving us so much trouble last season that we pulled it off the line and went back to a full belt process until it can be serviced (up in the air on the virus end).

I found my Woodsman 108s (new back in February) to be hooky on hard snow. The tips would engage before the rest of the ski, which made it hard to make lazy skiddy turns. Problem solved with mild detune.

[Viva]

And Iggy's response above, young Benjamin, is partially why so many of us are hudge fans of ON3P- not only great skis, but great customer service.

[scmartin69]

And Iggy's response above, young Benjamin, is partially why so many of us are hudge fans of ON3P- not only great skis, but great customer service.

+1 for the honesty/transparency
This is why I've switched my entire quiver (and now working on the family's) to the independent US manufacturers, specifically, ON3P and Moment.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[snowaddict91]

Woodsman 108 tour sounds money. If COVID keeps the lifts closed next winter I'm gonna have to save my pennies and make it happen!

The wren 110 pro sounds killer too, but basically 100% overlap with my wren 108s. sigh.

[Adrgha]

Fantastic news on the Billygoat 108 tour - just what I've been lusting for! Can't wait to see what the weights are going to come in at. What lenghts is this going to be made in? Standard BG lenghts (179/184)?

[jackattack]

Great update.

Looking forward to some actual weights for the 189 BG 108 tour, the 186 wren 110 sounds promising in the tour layup as well.

How does the flex compare between the various layups?

[phatty]

Bummed the Wren 108ti is no longer stock, but at least custom. Was eyeing that for my in bounds charger this season. Still thinking maybe Woodsman 108, too. Looking forward to seeing pics of the new lineup.

[mr_pretzel]

Like Scott said, he reached out to me and I definitely agree that something is up with the tune on my pairs. I ski stiff race plugs and therefor am very sensitive to tune on harder snow. Scott is like usual being very accommodating and working with me to get the tune right.

Like I said my woodsman is awesome when it’s soft or skiing hard off piste. I’m really stoked on the design and think Scott has totally nailed this ski.
It is the ski I have been looking for for a long time to blend charge-ability with playfulness, and I have skied a lot of stuff.

Really excited for the new line. The 102s sounds like cool additions and I’m stoked to see the new topsheets!

[Quandary]

Scott, thanks for the detailed response. The BGs I had mounted up this past year skied great out of the box with no added tuning by me or my tuner. That said when I have the W116s mounted up this summer I would like to give my tuner a specific set of instructions to check the tune on the skis. Presumably it's as simple as a flat base and 1/1 bevel on the edges. If it is more than that and its not to much trouble could you please let me know exactly what I should tell him to look for?

[detrusor]

Do you people not live somewhere with a good tuning shop or own a true bar? Would you send your S7’s back to Rossi to get a tune?

Seems pretty fucking simple to have your skis tuned


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[optics]

Do you people not live somewhere with a good tuning shop or own a true bar? Would you send your S7’s back to Rossi to get a tune?

Seems pretty fucking simple to have your skis tuned


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It’s also simple to have your tires aligned, but you wouldn’t expect to have to do it driving a new car off the lot. If I bought Rossi’s (or any ski) and saw they were railed I would definitely make the shop get them flat.

That said, I’ve bought close to 20 pairs of skis from On3p over many many years and I’ve never seen a single issue with base flatness or edges.

[mr_pretzel]

Do you people not live somewhere with a good tuning shop or own a true bar? Would you send your S7’s back to Rossi to get a tune?

Seems pretty fucking simple to have your skis tuned


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You would think I wouldn’t have to do my own boot work too, but I do.

When a town doesn’t have a strong race program the technical shop service generally sucks. You’re in good hands in SLC.

[CallMeAl]

Scott, any inkling on weights for the BG 108 tour (184 specifically)?

Not ready to publish numbers just yet, but they'll be in the same weight class as a few of the lightweight inbounds skis some of the euro companies are offering.

Fantastic news on the Billygoat 108 tour - just what I've been lusting for! Can't wait to see what the weights are going to come in at. What lenghts is this going to be made in? Standard BG lenghts (179/184)?

Yep, 179/184/189

That said when I have the W116s mounted up this summer I would like to give my tuner a specific set of instructions to check the tune on the skis. If it is not to much trouble could you please let me know exactly what I should tell him to look for?

Have him check the base bevel. Specifically, for a subtle burr line on the base side of the edge that the said belt potentially missed in finishing. That's my best guess as to why certain portions of a ski could perform unpredictably on hard snow. I'd imagine that this could also be remedied with a ceramic stone in a handheld 1° bevel followed by a few passes with a gummy stone if you wanted to DIY.

[Quandary]

Thanks!

[Muggydude]

Not ready to publish numbers just yet, but they'll be in the same weight class as a few of the lightweight inbounds skis some of the euro companies are offering.

Thanks. Just My .02c, but not totally sure what lightweight inbounds qualifies as - but I hope you guys have taken a cue from what I’d probably say (at least for me and probably a good amount of other people in here) is your most direct competition for a 108 BG tour, which is the Moment Wildcat 108 Tour - 1650-1800g/ ski for their 184 and 190cm lengths is pretty hard to beat for how well they ski (granted those would be more like 181cm and 187cm if measured like an ON3P).

I’m not buying a tour specific ski to be lightweight inbounds ski, I’d rather give up some inbounds ability for the extra couple hundred grams of weight savings. Course there are lots of people in the general public who might buy a ‘touring’ ski to slap some shifts on and ride 90% of the time inbounds, but I feel like the seeming lack of popularity of the steeple lineup may have been because of the 2000g weight (I might be completely wrong on that though - I never paid much attention to those skis). Bamboo might be a limiting factor as a heavy core material?

Anyways, if a 184cm BG 108 tour can come in around 1850g or under I’d still probably be in. Hopefully sub 1800. I enjoy RES and slightpintail and a more traditional mount, so I’m really excited about a 108 BG tour of it’s light enough. Anything heavier though and I’ll buy a moment ski.

[Gman]

Thanks. Just My .02c, but not totally sure what lightweight inbounds qualifies as - but I hope you guys have taken a cue from what I’d probably say (at least for me and probably a good amount of other people in here) is your most direct competition for a 108 BG tour, which is the Moment Wildcat 108 Tour - 1650-1800g/ ski for their 184 and 190cm lengths is pretty hard to beat for how well they ski (granted those would be more like 181cm and 187cm if measured like an ON3P).

I’m not buying a tour specific ski to be lightweight inbounds ski, I’d rather give up some inbounds ability for the extra couple hundred grams of weight savings. Course there are lots of people in the general public who might buy a ‘touring’ ski to slap some shifts on and ride 90% of the time inbounds, but I feel like the seeming lack of popularity of the steeple lineup may have been because of the 2000g weight (I might be completely wrong on that though - I never paid much attention to those skis). Bamboo might be a limiting factor as a heavy core material?

Anyways, if a 184cm BG 108 tour can come in around 1850g or under I’d still probably be in. Hopefully sub 1800. I enjoy RES and slightpintail and a more traditional mount, so I’m really excited about a 108 BG tour of it’s light enough. Anything heavier though and I’ll buy a moment ski.

So I could be wrong but my understanding is that Moment uses a cap construction which plays a huge role in where the weights of their skis come out to. It seems like what Scott is proposing is some what of a comprise with the thinner base and edge without going full cap like Moment. My guess is the hope is that it lightens things up from where previous tour skis were but without sacrificing too much performance and durability that people like about ON3P. Also, even with the changes to the touring lineup, I would guess that touring skis will probably represent less than 10% of the overall volume they do so it's less about making a ton of money for ON3P and trying to broaden the audience beyond those currently buying park skis and woodsmans (just my thoughts, not ON3P's).

[HAB]

I know Luke talked about Moment switching to semi-cap having to do with the weight loss in some of their skis on one of the Blister podcasts, but my 190cm 15-16 ones (the first year they went back to the original shape, and started doing the semi-cap thing) are a little over 2300g/ski in a 190, which is really close to what the full sidewall ones weighed. Scott also posted here somewhere about how much one of their sidewalls weighs before it goes into a ski, and it wasn't a whole lot, plus he noted that a ton of that gets milled off in trim so the potential for weight savings with semi-cap was pretty minimal.

Edit: Here's the quote:

I'd pump the brakes on this slightly - at least for our build. Even our thickest/longest sidewall only weights about 100g before it goes in a ski - at which point it loses something like 50% of its weight by the time it gets to the final product (I don't have exact number off top of my head, but it isn't a trivial amount). So, yes, as you thin the sidewall to account for a cap, you will be able to cut a bit of weight. But it wouldn't be enough to...say...make a previous Steeple layup light enough to be competitive.

Edit #2: Moment's newer construction still has a full length sidewall, there's just a little bit of a cap at the top, so the sidewall isn't quite as high. It's not like they ditched the sidewall entirely.

[Gman]

I know Luke talked about Moment switching to semi-cap having to do with the weight loss in some of their skis on one of the Blister podcasts, but my 190cm 15-16 ones (the first year they went back to the original shape, and started doing the semi-cap thing) are a little over 2300g/ski in a 190, which is really close to what the full sidewall ones weighed. Scott also posted here somewhere about how much one of their sidewalls weighs before it goes into a ski, and it wasn't a whole lot, plus he noted that a ton of that gets milled off in trim so the potential for weight savings with semi-cap was pretty minimal.

Edit: Here's the quote:



Edit #2: Moment's newer construction still has a full length sidewall, there's just a little bit of a cap at the top, so the sidewall isn't quite as high. It's not like they ditched the sidewall entirely.

I stand corrected, maybe it's more about the core profile then?