Shiffrin

[nyskirat]

2nd run of GS is on Olympic channel.

Shiffrin 1st, Vlhova 2nd, Worley 3rd.

[hafjell]

Wow. Nutty finish.


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[nyskirat]

Yeah.

Stepped off that gas just a little bit too much on the pitch. Must have seen Worley's mistake and realized it could be lost there but I think she was thinking overall GS title versus the win today.

[Vt-Freeheel]

vlhova-shares-first-place-with-shiffrin-in-maribor

The Slovak and American skier jointly won the giant slalom in Slovenia with exactly the same time of 2:31.31.

[hafjell]

Yeah.

Stepped off that gas just a little bit too much on the pitch. Must have seen Worley's mistake and realized it could be lost there but I think she was thinking overall GS title versus the win today.

She was holding her first run advantage at all of the previous splits. Oh well.
By my looking at the schedule, there are only 2 S and 2 GS left. Even if Petra won all four and MS finished out of the top 30 in all, MS would still win the overall? No more technical events this month? Am I reading the calendar correctly? JC, what a skier.

[nyskirat]

She was holding her first run advantage at all of the previous splits. Oh well.
By my looking at the schedule, there are only 2 S and 2 GS left. Even if Petra won all four and MS finished out of the top 30 in all, MS would still win the overall? No more technical events this month? Am I reading the calendar correctly? JC, what a skier.

4 SL left, but I think that includes parallel SL and I don't know what the point scoring for that is. For some reason I think it's different but if it's not, then there are 600 points left on the board in those 6 races. If Shiffrin fell in every single race and Vhlova won them all from now until the end of the year, Shiffrin would lose by 4 points.

Holdener isn't out of it either (mathematically at least) since she races in all the events.

That being said, it'd take a miracle for Shiffrin to lose it and for someone else to win it at this point.

What is going to be tougher are the GS and SL titles. She's got very little room for error in either event. A DNF with a Worley or Vhlova win would set her back substantially in the GS while a Vhlova win and a Shiffrin finish outside the top 3 would (I believe) vault Vhlova into first in that discipline.

[Danno]

^^^
That just highlights how Vhlova has been dominating everyone not named Mikaela.

[plugboots]

I don’t get this, can somebody explain? Shouldn’t the FIS points be how many they gained for winning the race?

[hafjell]

What is going to be tougher are the GS and SL titles. She's got very little room for error in either event. A DNF with a Worley or Vhlova win would set her back substantially in the GS while a Vhlova win and a Shiffrin finish outside the top 3 would (I believe) vault Vhlova into first in that discipline.

Not exactly, but your overall argument that the individual titles are very much up for grabs is well worth noting.
To be pedantic:
She's ahead of Tessa by 81 points in the GS. So, if Tessa won, MS could still finish 13th, take the 20 points and be ahead by 1.
She's ahead of Petra by 80 points in the slalom. So if Petra won, MS could still finish 12th, take the 22 points and be ahead by 2.
Also, is Tessa only racing GS? How did I miss that. Makes MS' wins even more impressive.

[nyskirat]

I don’t get this, can somebody explain? Shouldn’t the FIS points be how many they gained for winning the race?

Nope.

FIS points are the points used to rank skiers. You win, you get 0+the penalty.

Race points are calculated:-

P = (Tx-To) x F To
P = Race Points
Tx = Racers time in seconds
To = Winners time in seconds

F = "F" factor is announced annually for each discipline

Not sure what the current F factors are.

Race Penalty is calculated (not for mental arithmetic)

RPP = (A+B-C)/10
where
RPP = Race penalty Point
A = FIS point total of best 5 racers who started the race
B = FIS point total of the 5 racers with the best FIS finishing in the top 10
C = The race points of the racers in B

The overall winners of each discipline usually have 0 points at the end of the year.

[plugboots]

Thanks. I hope you sort of cut and pasted that and didn’t know it by memory.


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[powdork]

Nope.

FIS points are the points used to rank skiers. You win, you get 0+the penalty.

Race points are calculated:-

P = (Tx-To) x F To
P = Race Points
Tx = Racers time in seconds
To = Winners time in seconds

F = "F" factor is announced annually for each discipline

Not sure what the current F factors are.

Race Penalty is calculated (not for mental arithmetic)

RPP = (A+B-C)/10
where
RPP = Race penalty Point
A = FIS point total of best 5 racers who started the race
B = FIS point total of the 5 racers with the best FIS finishing in the top 10
C = The race points of the racers in B

The overall winners of each discipline usually have 0 points at the end of the year.

[nyskirat]

Thanks. I hope you sort of cut and pasted that and didn’t know it by memory.


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Oh yeah, I did for the math. I used to know it by memory when I was still racing.

We used to entertain ourselves by calculating the points per second (race points) to see how close we could come.

[anotherVTskibum]

Oh yeah, I did for the math. I used to know it by memory when I was still racing.

We used to entertain ourselves by calculating the points per second (race points) to see how close we could come.

...in ye olden days, before results would come out promptly after a race with such details available on the printed results sheets, and when online results would only show up weeks or months later, if at all (I don't actually recall exactly when USSA started making race results available online). I also had my TI-82 programmed to do the calculations.

In mostly useless trivia, the FIS points referred to should theoretically allow one to rank anyone who comes in FIS scored races to anyone else who does. It breaks down a bit at the World Cup level, for a variety of reasons, and the minimum point value for non-WC races is increasing next year in an attempt to rectify the situation. As an example, in the women's FIS GS at Sunday River on 20 Dec 2018, the winner (Caroline Bartlett) scored a 20.50-point result. In the Maribor WC GS, Bernadette Schild scored a 20.63-point result in 15th place. Bartlett is a top-10 NCAA carnival skier (including at least three wins), but hasn't scored better than 21st in a Nor Am race since 2014, when she had a few top-15 results (but nothing better than 11th in tech events); while clearly a damned good skier, that's not top-15-in-the-world skiing. (and no, I know nothing about her save what I could figure out from the FIS results listings).

The 2020 points calculation for Bartlett in the Sunday River GS was 34.50, which puts her just outside the finishers at Maribor (only the top 30 get a second run, and the last finisher was 4.66 seconds out with a 31.11-point result), which sounds more plausible although probably still a bit funky based on comparing the winner of a regional race to the slowest finisher in a top-level international race.

[Vt-Freeheel]

I feel like that kitten now.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Nope.

FIS points are the points used to rank skiers. You win, you get 0+the penalty.

Race points are calculated:-

P = (Tx-To) x F To
P = Race Points
Tx = Racers time in seconds
To = Winners time in seconds

F = "F" factor is announced annually for each discipline

Not sure what the current F factors are.

Race Penalty is calculated (not for mental arithmetic)

RPP = (A+B-C)/10
where
RPP = Race penalty Point
A = FIS point total of best 5 racers who started the race
B = FIS point total of the 5 racers with the best FIS finishing in the top 10
C = The race points of the racers in B

The overall winners of each discipline usually have 0 points at the end of the year.

Anybody like ski racing less than they did before reading this?

[huckbucket]

[nyskirat]

...
In the Maribor WC GS, Bernadette Schild scored a 20.63-point result in 15th place. Bartlett is a top-10 NCAA carnival skier (including at least three wins), but hasn't scored better than 21st in a Nor Am race since 2014, when she had a few top-15 results (but nothing better than 11th in tech events); while clearly a damned good skier, that's not top-15-in-the-world skiing. (and no, I know nothing about her save what I could figure out from the FIS results listings).

The 2020 points calculation for Bartlett in the Sunday River GS was 34.50, which puts her just outside the finishers at Maribor (only the top 30 get a second run, and the last finisher was 4.66 seconds out with a 31.11-point result), which sounds more plausible although probably still a bit funky based on comparing the winner of a regional race to the slowest finisher in a top-level international race.

Yeah it doesn’t work like it was intended for as a cross competition measuring stick. I think they had to do another drastic penalty adjust about 20 years ago or so.

[plugboots]

Actually I was just trying to find out if Shiffrin and Vlhova both get 100 points.

[Pass Rat]

In mostly useless trivia, the FIS points referred to should theoretically allow one to rank anyone who comes in FIS scored races to anyone else who does. It breaks down a bit at the World Cup level, for a variety of reasons, and the minimum point value for non-WC races is increasing next year in an attempt to rectify the situation. As an example, in the women's FIS GS at Sunday River on 20 Dec 2018, the winner (Caroline Bartlett) scored a 20.50-point result. In the Maribor WC GS, Bernadette Schild scored a 20.63-point result in 15th place. Bartlett is a top-10 NCAA carnival skier (including at least three wins), but hasn't scored better than 21st in a Nor Am race since 2014, when she had a few top-15 results (but nothing better than 11th in tech events); while clearly a damned good skier, that's not top-15-in-the-world skiing. (and no, I know nothing about her save what I could figure out from the FIS results listings).

The 2020 points calculation for Bartlett in the Sunday River GS was 34.50, which puts her just outside the finishers at Maribor (only the top 30 get a second run, and the last finisher was 4.66 seconds out with a 31.11-point result), which sounds more plausible although probably still a bit funky based on comparing the winner of a regional race to the slowest finisher in a top-level international race.

The comparison arguably doesn't even work when faced with results from different leagues that should theoretically be comparable (i.e. NORAM vs Euro Cup vs other continental cups). The comparisons work within individual divisions but the often large gaps in competitiveness really muck up the ability to use FIS points.

[nyskirat]

Huge win for Shiffrin again today with Vlhova struggling. Looked like, to me at least, that she was never confident on getting on edge high above the gate before pressuring the ski.

Really happy for Swenn-Larrson who finally got her first podium after straddling a few weeks ago and getting notified after the awards.

[hafjell]

Actually I was just trying to find out if Shiffrin and Vlhova both get 100 points.

Yes. No second place awarded.


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[hafjell]

Do Workd championships count towards overall WC points?


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[nyskirat]

Edit: Seems like they don't.

Regardless, Jesus Christ. She could challenge for 3 World Champ medals.

[anotherVTskibum]

Do Workd championships count towards overall WC points?


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No, they don't.