GUNS!!!!!!!!

[Viva]

If I said I had some golf clubs in storage, and had a book on the rules of golf somewhere, so I knew I could be a good player if "I needed?" Well, I'd sound like a delusional idiot.

I got news for ya.

[SumJongGuy]

Let me jump in here -

My grandfather kept a gun in every car he owned. He gave me a Walther PPK/S (Interarms manufacture, beautiful) when he sold the car where it resided. It had never been fired, but was loaded with some +P hollow-point rounds.

The first time I took it to the range, it jammed after every round with normal 380 ball. It continued to do this for another hundred or so rounds until the feed ramp smoothed out a bit. A couple hundred rounds later, it still won't run with one of the factory mags. The gun wouldn't have lasted long with the +P rounds he had in it, and there's no way in hell it'll feed a hollow-point.

Point here? Had he ever actually needed that gun, he would have been SOL. If you're going to rely on something, go put at least a couple hundred rounds through it. Learn what sort of ammo it likes and anything else that affects how it runs.

Point there is quality control was really shitty back in the 50s-80s..
I've also got two long guns that have never been fired. I bet at least one will work. If there was/is a total societal break down I'd definitely take a couple shots at targets to get the message out that we're armed. Reviews of my cheap ass handgun model indicates that some brands of ammo do misfire in it. Guy doing the demo said he had to pull the trigger twice a couple times but it did fire on the 2nd pull. So ya, expect it not to always fire perfectly..

[SumJongGuy]

Shooting a gun at a target 5 feet away is just as hard as hitting a golf ball 250 yards accurately.. Well, I'd sound like a delusional idiot.

Fixed

[SumJongGuy]

Let me jump in here -

My grandfather kept a gun in every car he owned. He gave me a Walther PPK/S (Interarms manufacture, beautiful) when he sold the car where it resided. It had never been fired, but was loaded with some +P hollow-point rounds.

The first time I took it to the range, it jammed after every round with normal 380 ball. It continued to do this for another hundred or so rounds until the feed ramp smoothed out a bit. A couple hundred rounds later, it still won't run with one of the factory mags. The gun wouldn't have lasted long with the +P rounds he had in it, and there's no way in hell it'll feed a hollow-point.

I'd also be suspect of anything that requires precision parts that's spent a long time in a non climate controlled environment. Storing a gun in a car isn't much better than storing it in a shed. I'd definitely want to take it apart and lube it before trying it out if it hadn't been kept in a climate controlled low moisture environment.

[SumJongGuy]

And again, it's not like we're not shooting other guns ever. My kid's completed every single shooting and marksman badge scouting offers. He did shotguns all summer. More importantly, we shoot several air guns at a little home brew 75 foot range in our back yard often enough. Taught my daughter how to hit cans with a handgun earlier this summer. We just don't waste bullets or need to hear or feel the BANG so I don't go out of my way to visit a range. Now, if someone invited me to go with them, hunting or the range and I wasn't busy doing something else I'd probably enjoy that. Just don't feel the need to do it otherwise..

[Conundrum]

What’s so tough about taking your home defense weapon out and shooting it a bit? It’s really not bad advice yet you argue and give reasons why you dont. Let’s not use a golf example. Let’s use avalanche beacons.

Hey, I see you got a new transceiver. Yeah, cool huh. I just posted pics of it on the internet. You ever practice with it? No, I used to use my dads. I really think you might want to turn it on and practice with it before you head into the back country. Nah, I have some different ones we practice with sometimes. You ever been in avalanche terrain or have to locate someone? No, but how tough could a stressful situation I’ve never experience nor practiced with for with my life saving equipment be? It’s not like it should be that tough to take my new transceiver out of the box, put batteries in it, and follow the arrow to where it says right? I mean really, my kids have their avalanche merit badges and I been to a beacon practice park once. Plus, I’ve got these other two transceivers in my pack I’ve never turned n either.

Sorry for the analogy, it’s not like you’re comparing your new pistol to any sort of life saving equipment. You’re probably trolling, but if not, go shoot your home defense weapons if you’re going to have home defense weapons.

[GhostofSeasonsPast]

What’s so tough about taking your home defense weapon out and shooting it a bit? It’s really not bad advice yet you argue and give reasons why you dont. Let’s not use a golf example. Let’s use avalanche beacons. ...

Sorry for the analogy, it’s not like you’re comparing your new pistol to any sort of life saving equipment. You’re probably trolling, but if not, go shoot your home defense weapons if you’re going to have home defense weapons.

Much better than golf, and well said.

[mangle]

Again, I have guns I would bet my life on. I have guns I wouldn't. But I know which are which. A "cheap ass handgun" should be considered suspect until proven otherwise.

[GhostofSeasonsPast]

Again, I have guns I would bet my life on. I have guns I wouldn't. But I know which are which. A "cheap ass handgun" should be considered suspect until proven otherwise.

There are however SOME inexpensive guns that can be nice to shoot. The one in question tends to be pretty uncomfortable to shoot. On top of everything.

[Jethro]

I have an interest in a large caliber AR based cartridge. .458 socum etc. any input? I’m in Colorado and am limited to 15 rounds due to all the urban transplants who have moved here and voted in their Californian, NY, and NJ viewpoints. I can say that since my wife is from the fucked up state of New Jersey. I’m leaning towards an AR 10 platform due to the longer case capacity. I’m hoping for nearly 3000 ft/lbs energy in a fat cartridge. I’m not looking for a flat shooting, bottle necked cartridge. Big fat bears are my main issue

Years ago I gave away all my reloading equipment and I don’t want to get into all that work again. I don’t have the time with a 5 year old boy now. I’m looking for a balance of performance and economy. I’m looking for a fat, heavy bullet going kinda fast. I already have .270, 30-06, 7mm mag in bolt and single shot guns. Also have a .348 in a lever gun but I want a newer gun in a more tactical format. Something with a .308 bolt face and .40 or larger bore which head spaces on the shoulder.

[SumJongGuy]

What’s so tough about taking your home defense weapon out and shooting it a bit? It’s really not bad advice yet you argue and give reasons why you dont. Let’s not use a golf example. Let’s use avalanche beacons.

Hey, I see you got a new transceiver. Yeah, cool huh. I just posted pics of it on the internet. You ever practice with it? No, I used to use my dads. I really think you might want to turn it on and practice with it before you head into the back country. Nah, I have some different ones we practice with sometimes. You ever been in avalanche terrain or have to locate someone? No, but how tough could a stressful situation I’ve never experience nor practiced with for with my life saving equipment be? It’s not like it should be that tough to take my new transceiver out of the box, put batteries in it, and follow the arrow to where it says right? I mean really, my kids have their avalanche merit badges and I been to a beacon practice park once. Plus, I’ve got these other two transceivers in my pack I’ve never turned n either.

Sorry for the analogy, it’s not like you’re comparing your new pistol to any sort of life saving equipment. You’re probably trolling, but if not, go shoot your home defense weapons if you’re going to have home defense weapons.

I'm not using this as a typical "home defense" weapon to be loaded and ready to go in seconds in the middle of the night. These are merely to be stashed, heavily locked up, and only to be pulled out and fired up in the event that a natural disaster or catastrophe (like the one looming) renders the local police unable to protect our property. If it comes to that I'll test all three of the guns on my property since the cops won't be around to do anything about it. Otherwise these weapons will likely never be used. It's not worth the risk of my teens or burglars finding them if I leave then ready to rock on short notice.

[jgb@etree]

I have an interest in a large caliber AR based cartridge. .458 socum etc. any input? I’m in Colorado and am limited to 15 rounds due to all the urban transplants who have moved here and voted in their Californian, NY, and NJ viewpoints. I can say that since my wife is from the fucked up state of New Jersey. I’m leaning towards an AR 10 platform due to the longer case capacity. I’m hoping for nearly 3000 ft/lbs energy in a fat cartridge. I’m not looking for a flat shooting, bottle necked cartridge. Big fat bears are my main issue

Years ago I gave away all my reloading equipment and I don’t want to get into all that work again. I don’t have the time with a 5 year old boy now. I’m looking for a balance of performance and economy. I’m looking for a fat, heavy bullet going kinda fast. I already have .270, 30-06, 7mm mag in bolt and single shot guns. Also have a .348 in a lever gun but I want a newer gun in a more tactical format. Something with a .308 bolt face and .40 or larger bore which head spaces on the shoulder.

IMO, 458 SOCOM is a novelty cartridge. The 300gr pills are like tossing rocks downrange which is cool, but the ballistics suck and the round drops off a cliff between 150 - 200 yds. The other problem is the .50AE parent case. Brass is expensive, and not worth the novelty. Again, this is just my opinion based on my experience with the round (I have a 458 SOCOM upper). If I were to do it all over again, I'd probably do .50 Beowulf. Same parent case, but heavier rounds and ever so slightly improved ballistics. You mention that you are looking for something built on an AR10 lower, but .458 SOCOM (and .50 Beowulf) uppers are both designed for AR15 lowers. If I were doing a non 308 build on an AR10 lower I'd probably consider 300 WinMag or 7mm RemMag.

With all of that said, I truly don't think it would be worth it for you to do something in a wildcat or less common cartridge unless you have plans to start reloading again.

[Conundrum]

I'm not using this as a typical "home defense" weapon to be loaded and ready to go in seconds in the middle of the night. These are merely to be stashed, heavily locked up, and only to be pulled out and fired up in the event that a natural disaster or catastrophe (like the one looming) renders the local police unable to protect our property. If it comes to that I'll test all three of the guns on my property since the cops won't be around to do anything about it. Otherwise these weapons will likely never be used. It's not worth the risk of my teens or burglars finding them if I leave then ready to rock on short notice.

What I hear you saying... "Hey man, it's not like I'm going to keep my beacon by my bedside. I live on the east coast. It's going to be buried with my ski stuff and I'll get it out for my bi-annual trip out west to ski with my college bros. If I'm only using it every couple years, why would I ever practice with it? Hell, I could go backcountry skiing for a lifetime and never be caught in an avalanche. But maybe you're right, if an avalanche does happen, I'll run through a couple practice searches."

I can't tell you how to live your life man. If I own a firearm for any other reason than it's a collectable or family heirloom that I will never ever shoot, you're damn right I'm going to go shoot it at least once to make sure it does what it's supposed to do. I would absolutely go shoot if it's going to be a home defense weapon whether it's in my nightstand or a home defense weapon stashed away that would only be used during a natural disaster (you know, the kind of home defense weapon you might need because there are no public responders like police). And so just so you don't think I'm some gun nut spouting off, I don't have a home defense weapon in my nightstand.

After typing that, it actually sounds worse.

You bought a gun as an absolute last resort and you own two others as absolute last resorts for natural disasters when no one else can protect you and your family and you won't go take a few practice shots with them to make sure they function and that you can operate them efficiently.

I'm not saying all this to debate something on the internet. Practicing with a firearm that you own for emergency situations is just the right thing to do. I don't have much else to say here. Where's the fucking tylenol?

[SumJongGuy]

^^^That's the gist of it. I've never driven my neighbor's brand new Outback, or other brand new cars but I've driven a lot of similar vehicles, both standard and automatic. And, I have every reason to believe that brand new Outback will start (assuming electrical and fluids are current) should I need to drive it with their permission in an emergency. I've spent plenty of hours firing automatic handguns, rifles, and shotguns. I fire air rifles and handguns a couple times a year, sometimes several times a week while cooking out back. I'm betting my life that quality control is sufficient in these products that with a few minutes of tinkering and a couple test shots fired in to the ground they will work as needed under that scenario. If I want to go shoot at the range I'd be fine using just about any other gun. There's something about keeping these brand new and unfired that appeals to me. Heck, who knows, I might want to someday upgrade to something really nice. Brand new, never fired and kept indoors climate controlled might fetch a few more dollars, or not..

Another reason I like them unfired is I'd like to be able to tell if my teenagers did manage to find them and tried them out while I was out of town. Easier to tell that with a brand new, never fired gun.

[Conundrum]

If you want to operate on an assumption with something you only own to protect your life, it's your life. You don't own your neighbors Outback nor do you have it stashed away to protect you in an end of days scenario.

If you want to see if a firearm has been used, clean it after you practice with it and don't patch the gun oil out of the barrel. By the way, I thought your kids were proficient with firearms and had all their merit badges on safely operating firearms which seems to me to mean that they wouldn't go around sneaking pop's guns and use them without permission. I thought they were all locked up safely anyway...

I'm not debating with you for my benefit. Cheap pistols (and some expensive models), don't feed well and jam with certain ammo. They often come out of the box not zeroed. It's an hour or two and $15 bucks worth of ammo to make sure these things are not an issue. I don't know what you make an hour but you've probably spent more time and money arguing why it's silly to not trying something that you own as a potential life and property saving tool than just going and shooting a few rounds through it.

Your deal though. I hope the storm goes easy on you east coasters and none of the bad shit happens. You can leave your weapons stashed and unused and hopefully your kids don't get into them.

[The Reverend Floater]

^^^That's the gist of it. I've never driven my neighbor's brand new Outback, or other brand new cars but I've driven a lot of similar vehicles, both standard and automatic. And, I have every reason to believe that brand new Outback will start (assuming electrical and fluids are current) should I need to drive it with their permission in an emergency. I've spent plenty of hours firing automatic handguns, rifles, and shotguns. I fire air rifles and handguns a couple times a year, sometimes several times a week while cooking out back. I'm betting my life that quality control is sufficient in these products that with a few minutes of tinkering and a couple test shots fired in to the ground they will work as needed under that scenario. If I want to go shoot at the range I'd be fine using just about any other gun. There's something about keeping these brand new and unfired that appeals to me. Heck, who knows, I might want to someday upgrade to something really nice. Brand new, never fired and kept indoors climate controlled might fetch a few more dollars, or not..

Another reason I like them unfired is I'd like to be able to tell if my teenagers did manage to find them and tried them out while I was out of town. Easier to tell that with a brand new, never fired gun.

Firearms are not cars. Each has its nuances and while they might all go bang if you pull the trigger, I wouldn't rely on that to protect my family IN A SAFE MANNER, if that's your intention, no matter how unlikey that situation is.

[Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo]

Firearms are not cars.

No shit! Kind of unreal this would need to be spelled out, shooting is a perishable skill. But his daughter sounds like a pretty good shot so I'd stick with her when the shit hits the fan.

[TAFKALVS]

I have no comment other than, “We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training.”

[SumJongGuy]

If you want to operate on an assumption with something you only own to protect your life, it's your life. You don't own your neighbors Outback nor do you have it stashed away to protect you in an end of days scenario.

If you want to see if a firearm has been used, clean it after you practice with it and don't patch the gun oil out of the barrel. By the way, I thought your kids were proficient with firearms and had all their merit badges on safely operating firearms which seems to me to mean that they wouldn't go around sneaking pop's guns and use them without permission. I thought they were all locked up safely anyway...

I'm not debating with you for my benefit. Cheap pistols (and some expensive models), don't feed well and jam with certain ammo. They often come out of the box not zeroed. It's an hour or two and $15 bucks worth of ammo to make sure these things are not an issue. I don't know what you make an hour but you've probably spent more time and money arguing why it's silly to not trying something that you own as a potential life and property saving tool than just going and shooting a few rounds through it.

Your deal though. I hope the storm goes easy on you east coasters and none of the bad shit happens. You can leave your weapons stashed and unused and hopefully your kids don't get into them.

Again, if it becomes apparent that a armed security is necessary I'll break them all out and test them. Sans that they stay mothballed. You folks know what I did feel the critical need to test fire? The generator I've never used. I did start it once the day it arrived from Amazon vendor three years ago. I re read the manual, followed the instructions for connecting the propane cylinder and setting the choke. It cranked up on the 2nd pull.. Plugged a couple things in to be sure it was putting out power.

FWIW, the closest public range looks to be a 45 minute drive away. Naw, I'll deal with it out back if it becomes apparent that armed defense might be necessary. I'm still several dominoes away from even considering that might be a possibility right now and have high confidence that I'll be fine making sure they're working properly, or at least one of the three options is without having to go to the range. Short of total societal breakdown and chaos they're staying mothballed. Now the generator to keep our drinks cold and internet modem running? That has to be tested beyond all possible failure scenarios hahahaha!

[exsparky]

The generator I've never used. I did start it once the day it arrived from Amazon vendor three years ago. I re read the manual, followed the instructions for connecting the propane cylinder and setting the choke. It cranked up on the 2nd pull.. Plugged a couple things in to be sure it was putting out power.

Generators should be tested and run quarterly, some people do it monthly, some annually. I would also recommend load banking as I have seen units fail from Eaton (as good as your are going to get, which failed this year on brand new stuff.) The 2018 failure I had failed in 4 ways, the inputs and outputs were mislabeled, the cooling stack fan wasn't plugged in, the second power module was unplugged and there was a programming error. The unit was signed off by Eaton on site(with only the cooling fan noted) only to fail miserably upon load banking by a third party the next day.

But whatever that just keeps your beer cold.

[DeepHelmet]

The least likely thing in the world to work properly is a cheap unfired handgun. Conundrum, Floater, and Leavenworth have already said everything very well so I won’t go over it again, except to say you are woefully less prepared than you think you are. I really hope, for many reasons obviously, that you don’t need to try and shoot someone with that gun.

[SumJongGuy]

The least likely thing in the world to work properly is a cheap unfired handgun. Conundrum, Floater, and Leavenworth have already said everything very well so I won’t go over it again, except to say you are woefully less prepared than you think you are. I really hope, for many reasons obviously, that you don’t need to try and shoot someone with that gun.

Again, I wouldn't be able to even try to use it without plenty of advance notice that and signs that order in the community has broken down. Faced with that I take it out, load it up and fire it out back a couple times. Do the same with the other guns. If one isn't working I try different ammo. I was smart enough to buy two different types for each.. different brands, one hollow and one FMJ. So, if one proves trouble some under testing I have other options. If the gun won't function properly just put it down and go with another option.

I'm not worried about the home invasion scenario.

As for shooting in general.. If someone I know invited me to go to the range with them, and I wasn't busy with something else I'd do it.. Same goes for going to hit golf balls. Stuff I used to do pretty often but have mostly lost interest in due to life. Just not motivated enough to get off my ass and go invest over an hour to do those things..

Now, I'll still get off my ass and spend 6 hours driving to spend 4 hours skiing, all by myself or with others. Closest ski resort is 170 miles from my door. I'll do that. 5 minutes to go play golf, not lately.. Priorities I guess... Might get back in to golf some if the kid wants to play.

[GhostofSeasonsPast]

...

FWIW, the closest public range looks to be a 45 minute drive away. Naw, I'll deal with it out back if it becomes apparent that armed defense might be necessary...

I might believe this statement if you lived in far-eastern CO or maybe western OK or SE UT. In suburban NC, surrounded by gun ranges, it's by itself a very interesting thing to say. If you weren't typical in terms of adhering to fictions about guns, while openly advocating restricting the civil rights of others about the same subject, it would be funny.

I would make a further point for other people about defensive shooting. A lot of the general "range shooting" skills don't translate well to defensive shooting. Including choice of shooting stance. Even for "pros" like LEOs. So, anyone looking to practice for personal defense should look to put a few thousand rounds through while focusing on defensive shooting. And, since some of the motor skills are very particular to choice of handgun, they should be very familiar with any gun they might use in that context, and ideally not have meaningful variation other than size of pistol (depending on open carry, home defense, concealed carry, use, one pistol might be wider than another, etc.).

[wooley12]

Curious and not trolling. If one wanted to buy a Thompson, how hard would it be? Not legally, I mean to just buy one.

[Conundrum]

Curious and not trolling. If one wanted to buy a Thompson, how hard would it be? Not legally, I mean to just buy one.

Depends on the Thompson. https://www.tcarms.com/ If you want a muzzle loader, drive over to Cabelas and plop down a couple hundred bucks. Fully auto...I have no idea.