The Official Salomon S/Lab SHIFT MNC Thread -AMA

[grinch]

Didn’t they hand out a number of shifts to patrollers to test? I think I read that

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

The latter is where I'm going with this. The big question is will these hold up to resort use? Thus far, I don't think that's the environment they're being tested in.

Earlier this winter Salomon/Atomic athletes were pretty deliberate about posting positive things on instagram about using the shift inbounds. Of course they’re paid to say stuff like that, but some of the videos of Cody skiing them in shit conditions at Alyeska were pretty convincing. Plus if you look he has some more recent vids absolutely ripping on them.

[nickel]

I guess the only question is how many he has on rotation and at what threshold they get replaced. Hopefully it's as good as it seems.

[LiveLarger]

It's very tempting to go the shift route on a pair of skis next season, unless something turns sour, I probably will on a pair of skis I use for mixed inbounds and short tours from the lifts.

As far as using as a proper touring binding, it's just waay to heavy.

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

I guess the only question is how many he has on rotation and at what threshold they get replaced. Hopefully it's as good as it seems.

PM him here or ask on Instagram

[Pacman922]

It's very tempting to go the shift route on a pair of skis next season, unless something turns sour, I probably will on a pair of skis I use for mixed inbounds and short tours from the lifts.

As far as using as a proper touring binding, it's just waay to heavy.

What's your weight limit for a proper touring binding?

I'm using the radical st 2.0 now and a weight increase of ~280 grams per for the shift seems like a no brainier for the downhill performance / better release. Just feel like the shift isn't that much heavier than pin bindings w/ release values (radicals / g3 ion etc)

[doebedoe]

What's your weight limit for a proper touring binding?

I'm using the radical st 2.0 now and a weight increase of ~280 grams per for the shift seems like a no brainier for the downhill performance / better release. Just feel like the shift isn't that much heavier than pin bindings w/ release values (radicals / g3 ion etc)

Speed radicals are 390g/binding.
Ion LTs are 483g/binding.
Salmon mtn are 387g/binding (w/ the brake).

Shifts are 886g/binding.

That's approx 500g per foot heavier, for pin bindings with release values. (Not sure what you mean by that exactly, but all have release values that are some-how adjustable if thats what you mean.) And extra pound on each foot, so 2#s heavier overall. Are they the same skiability or safety as the shift? No.

500g per foot may not matter on 3000' of vert days. But on days of 5000' or more, that can let you go a lot longer.

tl;dr: It depends entirely on the type of skiing you're doing. There isn't one right choice.

[Pacman922]

Speed radicals are 390g/binding.
Ion LTs are 483g/binding.
Salmon mtn are 387g/binding (w/ the brake).

Shifts are 886g/binding.

That's approx 500g per foot heavier, for pin bindings with release values. (Not sure what you mean by that exactly, but all have release values that are some-how adjustable if thats what you mean.) And extra pound on each foot, so 2#s heavier overall. Are they the same skiability or safety as the shift? No.

500g per foot may not matter on 3000' of vert days. But on days of 5000' or more, that can let you go a lot longer.

tl;dr: It depends entirely on the type of skiing you're doing. There isn't one right choice.

Yeah, i probably am not using the correct language / dont have enough education about it but i just meant the Shift seems worth the slight extra weight comparable to the pin bindings that are a little beefier in an attempt to be better on the descent like the Tecton, radical 2.0, ion g3 (not the LT), kingpin and isn't just relegated to a slack country binding

But as you said, there isn't one choice and depends entirely on the person

[thecazdog]

there isn't one choice and depends entirely on the person

And also on your other gear choices. I'm similarly obsessed with weight, but I also like how you can ski with a more capable binding. My plan is to get Shifts (instead of ATK FreeRaiders), along with swapping my Mtn Labs for Zero G Tour Pros. Works out being about 200g heavier per side. I can live with that - but those 2000m days feel a bit harder now!

[margotron]

And also on your other gear choices. I'm similarly obsessed with weight, but I also like how you can ski with a more capable binding. My plan is to get Shifts (instead of ATK FreeRaiders), along with swapping my Mtn Labs for Zero G Tour Pros. Works out being about 200g heavier per side. I can live with that - but those 2000m days feel a bit harder now!

The ZGTPs look rad. Worried they are going to ski like a 1300gram boot. I suck and power through boots flex

[1000-oaks]

^ The Shift is compatible with "Multi Norm Certification" (MNC) boots, is the 2019 ZG MNC?

[LiveLarger]

I bet anyone who don't think 200 grams here and there matters haven't done many long touring missions. There is a reason people want light touring gear. I know that everybody here think they have awesome cardiovascular capacity and ski 55 degree spines every time they go touring. But the reality is that most people don't. If you go skinning from eg 3000 to 4000 meters (which is pretty common in the alps) weight matters. It matters a lot. Even if it's just 3000 vertical feet. Particular when you are doing this for days in a row. 200 grams here and there ads up. What you want to do is not ad weight, you want to strip down.

[nickel]

I bet anyone who don't think 200 grams here and there matters haven't done many long touring missions. There is a reason people want light touring gear. I know that everybody here think they have awesome cardiovascular capacity and ski 55 degree spines every time they go touring. But the reality is that most people don't. If you go skinning from eg 3000 to 4000 meters (which is pretty common in the alps) weight matters. It matters a lot. Even if it's just 3000 vertical feet. Particular when you are doing this for days in a row. 200 grams here and there ads up. What you want to do is not ad weight, you want to strip down.

Agree 100%. Having said that, I think this binding might pair nicely with a much lighter binding with inserts for both.

[Pacman922]

I bet anyone who don't think 200 grams here and there matters haven't done many long touring missions. There is a reason people want light touring gear. I know that everybody here think they have awesome cardiovascular capacity and ski 55 degree spines every time they go touring. But the reality is that most people don't. If you go skinning from eg 3000 to 4000 meters (which is pretty common in the alps) weight matters. It matters a lot. Even if it's just 3000 vertical feet. Particular when you are doing this for days in a row. 200 grams here and there ads up. What you want to do is not ad weight, you want to strip down.

You are correct, I have not. Good points

[skimanguydude]

I know that everybody here think they have awesome cardiovascular capacity and ski 55 degree spines every time they go touring. But the reality is that most people don't.

I totally see what you're saying, but isn't that kind of a bad attitude? Shouldn't the attitude be towards self improvement? I think that taking up trail running (a cheap sport that also leads to beautiful views) in the summer and getting fit will impact your ability to go further in the mountains more than if you used duct tape for bindings.

Increases in fitness > decreases in gear weight


PS: My friends who regularly ski 55 degree spines in AK boot pack them anyways

[PNWbrit]

I think that taking up trail running (a cheap sport that also leads to beautiful views) in the summer and getting fit will impact your ability to go further in the mountains

Increases in fitness > decreases in gear weight

Have you considered the guys on light bindings might also be doing this?

[XXX-er]

we had an ultra runner ski and climb 36 km/27500 ft in under 13 hrs on pretty light gear (F1, light dynafits, some rando ski) he was a great runner (probably top 250 in the world) but not much of a skier ... buddy found it easier to go up than down

[Judo Chop!]

why all the confusion?
These replace frame bindings and kingpins. Not lightweight long haul stuff.
get another pair of skis.

[LeeLau]

why all the confusion?
These replace frame bindings and kingpins. Not lightweight long haul stuff.
get another pair of skis.

I know. The usual TGR microparsing.

I have these on 1850g skis (QST99s) and 1550g skis (Backlands) so the weight thing is a toss-up. I can see the point about saving weight on the overall system but to me this depends in large part on your touring group - ie is your group slow or fast.

Over the long multi-day haul I can kill the average person on skins so my own personal experience is to be read in context. On a long tour the weight isn't the issue. It'll be the transitions. They take longer to transition even after lots of practise. The time I spend to strip a layer or grab a bite of food I spend farting around on transitions (a couple of minutes each time). To me and the groups I go with that time matters.

[JPaul]

On a long tour the weight isn't the issue. It'll be the transitions.

Possible thread jack, but this is not the conclusion I was expecting -> always hear the compounding effect of lifting extra 100s of grams per step on multi-days is the killer.

How many transitions*extra time are the shifts costing on a tour vs. your preferred multi-day binding?

Asking for a friend, I guess. I'm lucky to get multi-lap days in (and I relish the transition times to fuel up/look around/OCD my skins into their bag).

[PNWbrit]

OCD my skins into their bag

Leave the bag at home. Problem solved.

Take the one off your probe too.

[JPaul]

Leave the bag at home. Problem solved.

Take the one off your probe too.

Good advice, thanks, but unfortunately not how OCD works w/long adhesive strips in particular.

Still, interested in comment that binding fidget time (seconds?) is a dominant issue on multi-day treks vs. weight.

/ Also, now you have me wondering what is saving my skin savers :/

[TahoeJ]

Stepping out of your skis to transition definitely takes a lot more time, especially in deeper snow. But everything is a trade off.

[LeeLau]

Possible thread jack, but this is not the conclusion I was expecting -> always hear the compounding effect of lifting extra 100s of grams per step on multi-days is the killer.

How many transitions*extra time are the shifts costing on a tour vs. your preferred multi-day binding?

Asking for a friend, I guess. I'm lucky to get multi-lap days in (and I relish the transition times to fuel up/look around/OCD my skins into their bag).

it's not really a dominant issue. Something I'd consider though for sure.

All the weight comparisons are not apples to apples. IMO Shift should be compared to other bindings that purport to offer inbounds-like performance. I've belaboured that already. Its' weird to compare it to a Dynafit Comfort, Salomon Mtn or Backland' those are totally different categories of bindings. They're 350g, 500g respectively lighter. Of course that's going to make a difference.

Thought experiment on the transitions. I've done trips where I ski 2000m vert/day for 7 days averaging fair distances of 10km+. TI would guesstimate 8-10 transitions/day. Looking back at one trip (Kokanee glacier - that's about 9 hours/day out. 10 transitions at 2 minutes extra per transition is 20 minutes. So maybe I'm overblowing it. 20 minutes shouldn't make/break my day,

EDIT - comparing Shifts with many touring bindings where you can rip skins with skis still on thus negating getting out of skis, having to clean bindings of snow; the minor faffing changing modes etc - that all adds up

[XXX-er]

Back in the day comparing a light dynafit ski/binding/boot setup vs a big JJ/FR+/ 4buckle alpine boot, there was about a 10-12% difference in times on a 1-1.5 hr skin up

there were obviously ROM issues in a rig like that besides the weight