2014/2015 ON3P Skis (Official Thread) - Discussion and Lust

[cooks]

The current wren 112 is substantially more ski than the vicik. Not sure how really quantify it, but I though the vicik was reasonably forgiving for what it was. The wren 112 is... Well, not.

It isn't that difficult to ski at all (although heavy, but still soft chop/crud is still a work in progress for me, but I think that's just cause I suck), but it requires you to actually be able to find the front of your boots and bend the front half of a ski. If you can do that its actually a pretty nimble ski for how substantial the speed limit is.

[RudyGarmisch]

If we are playing invent-a-ski... What typically happens when you put a tour layup on a standard ski? What even is a tour layup exactly? Wondering about something like a Jeffrey in a tour layup for light and snappy shenanigans.

I cannot confirm nor deny the existence of such rare pairs of Jeffrey's with or without the pillow fight topsheets.

[adrenalated]

Not sure how really quantify it, but I though the vicik was reasonably forgiving for what it was. The wren 112 is... Well, not.

I actually disagree with this. Both skis are reasonably forgiving for what they are. The Vicik is a reasonably stout all around ride, the Wren 112 is a reasonably forgiving missile.

The Vicik is about an 8 and the Wren 112 is a 10 on a scale of 1-10 (where something like an old M1 or RC112 goes to 11 or 12).

It [the Wren 112] isn't that difficult to ski at all (although heavy, but still soft chop/crud is still a work in progress for me, but I think that's just cause I suck), but it requires you to actually be able to find the front of your boots and bend the front half of a ski. If you can do that its actually a pretty nimble ski for how substantial the speed limit is.

This is spot on though. They are not hard to ski if you can find the front of your boots. I can ski them just fine in reasonably tight and steep trees. The only place I've found them too big is really tight, techy, steep gnar, aka Crested Butte. But that's because 181-182cm is kinda my sweet spot for length there.

BTW, I'm all of 140lbs on the 186cm and I ain't that good, so you bigger dudes should be finding the 186 Wren way more forgiving than me.

You fucking pussies.

[TexasGortex]

Wider, tour layup Jeffrey? Or you mean current width, tour layup Jeffrey?

Probably the current 122. I'm not very sensitive to width changes though, so I'd be open to whatever. Loosely in the 115-120mm range.

[TexasGortex]

I cannot confirm nor deny the existence of such rare pairs of Jeffrey's with or without the pillow fight topsheets.

Consider my interest piqued.

Speaking of Pillowfights... I was doing a little prep work for Japan last night. Fly out soon and my impatience and excitement levels are high.

[cooks]

I actually disagree with this. Both skis are reasonably forgiving for what they are. The Vicik is a reasonably stout all around ride, the Wren 112 is a reasonably forgiving missile.

Yeah that probably is a better way of putting it. I was thinking more of what happens when you start tail gunning. The vicik might actually help you correct, the wrenegade just takes off. But for what it is, you can get away with a hell of a lot before the ski says nope, you're done.

[ScrewYou]

BTW, I'm all of 140lbs on the 186cm and I ain't that good, so you bigger dudes should be finding the 186 Wren way more forgiving than me.

You fucking pussies.

Ya i either need the 191, or the 190cm icelantic seeker...

I want something thats just a straight up missile. Along the lines of a RC112. No forgiveness needed. Something that if your shin isnt pressed against the front of your boots, you will have a bad time. But when you drive them and ski them hard, they come to life and reward you like no other.

[adrenalated]

Ya i either need the 191, or the 190cm icelantic seeker...

FWIW.
I owned the 190cm Seekers. Good ski, especially considering the price you can buy them for right now.

HOWEVER. The speed limit is the same as the 186 Wren, but the Seeker is more work to ski. So more effort with no more reward. The shape is also not as refined, the ski not as well finished, and not as durable.
In other words, you want the 191 Wren.

Since this thread has turned into a bit of an ON3P wishlist, I'll give the skis that I'd personally like to see, with absolutely no regard for what might sell at retail. Just what I personally want to ski.

-Slim the Wren 112 down to 108 underfoot. Same lengths, same flex, same camber/rocker. Ideally straighten the ski out just a little (radius ~29m). I'd love to see what that would ski like with metal, too. The Wren 112 is fine as it is, this would just make it a little better as a firm/mixed snow charger, which is how I use it. Any tighter radius, softer, or losing the camber is a deal breaker for me. Honestly don't know if it'd be worth the money for me to replace my 112s, but that would make the perfect Wrenegade for me personally.

-a Praxis Protest fighter. That ski is seriously impressive. So playful and fun, but very stable. It has just the right amount of sidecut and camber for its purpose. The C&D kinda competes, and is a great ski, but it's just a little to charge oriented and heavy, plus the 193 length is just a bit too long, for where I ski on pow days (CO trees), particularly since this class of ski typically gets backcountry/sidecountry/slackcountry use around here. The BG handles 90% of my inbounds pow days. Honestly at this point my next ski purchase will likely be 187 Protests in the UL layup with tech bindings.

-not really ON3P's thing, but a real mountaineering ski. 177-180ish length, low to mid 90s underfoot, 25m+ radius, a bit of tip rocker and taper, kick tail, and camber underfoot. And LIGHT. I am fine with thinner bases/edges than typical ON3P construction, and also a blended core rather than 100% bamboo for this purpose. Not really a ski that ON3P will ever (or probably should ever) make, but it's a ski I want that doesn't really exist right now so I'm listing it anyway. (Yes there's plenty of really light 90-95mm skis with the right camber/rocker profile, but long radius is damn near impossible to find.)

[ScrewYou]

Ive read the wren 112 is not quite as burly as the moment belafonte. Im really looking for a wider, stiffer belafonte. So the seeker is harder to ski, less rewarding, and not as stable as it should be considering shape? Back to the drawing board.

[adrenalated]

Ive read the wren 112 is not quite as burly as the moment belafonte.

Whoever said that is wrong. The Wren 112 is stouter than the Belafonte. The Belafonte is pretty damn close to the Vicik (old Belafonte with normal camber, I haven't skied the new triple camber version).

[cooks]

Adrenalated is right about the seekers. If anything, they are less stable than the wrenegade at speed and certainly are less powerful on edge. They are more work to ski, although still easier than an rc112.

The wren 112 is all of the attributes you listed except "straight up missile". It is a refined missile that you can actually turn on hard snow. It still will deliver plenty o' bad times if you don't drive the ski. So yes, the 191 wren 112 is the ski you are looking for.

[ScrewYou]

Holy shit, the BGs are so much fun in sierra cement. Everyone else is complaining, im having a blast..

[TahoeJ]

Whoever said that is wrong. The Wren 112 is stouter than the Belafonte. The Belafonte is pretty damn close to the Vicik (old Belafonte with normal camber, I haven't skied the new triple camber version).

This. Belafonte isn't even close to the Wren 112.

Holy shit, the BGs are so much fun in sierra cement. Everyone else is complaining, im having a blast..

Yep. I knew the BG was a special ski the first time I took them out and it was thick heavy snow and I was having a blast while a lot of my friends were struggling. That they don't also feel like planks in blower is the magic part.

[pureantigravity]

I'm still digging my 2013 Viciks. They don't like to turn all that much, but they do bomb and tame pretty much anything that you throw at them.

[sierraskier]

-a Praxis Protest fighter. That ski is seriously impressive. So playful and fun, but very stable. It has just the right amount of sidecut and camber for its purpose. The C&D kinda competes, and is a great ski, but it's just a little to charge oriented and heavy, plus the 193 length is just a bit too long, for where I ski on pow days (CO trees), particularly since this class of ski typically gets backcountry/sidecountry/slackcountry use around here. The BG handles 90% of my inbounds pow days. Honestly at this point my next ski purchase will likely be 187 Protests in the UL layup with tech bindings.

This...

I have one day on the 15/16 BG, so from the perspective of a completely unqualified douchebag, a slimmed down/softer/lighter BG with a flex pattern that is more like the Protest would be perfect for me. Maybe that is the Steeple, don't know.

[adrenalated]

This...

I have one day on the 15/16 BG, so from the perspective of a completely unqualified douchebag, a slimmed down/softer/lighter BG with a flex pattern that is more like the Protest would be perfect for me. Maybe that is the Steeple, don't know.

That is the Steeple.

[adrenalated]

-not really ON3P's thing, but a real mountaineering ski. 177-180ish length, low to mid 90s underfoot, 25m+ radius, a bit of tip rocker and taper, kick tail, and camber underfoot. And LIGHT. I am fine with thinner bases/edges than typical ON3P construction, and also a blended core rather than 100% bamboo for this purpose. Not really a ski that ON3P will ever (or probably should ever) make, but it's a ski I want that doesn't really exist right now so I'm listing it anyway. (Yes there's plenty of really light 90-95mm skis with the right camber/rocker profile, but long radius is damn near impossible to find.)

So interestingly enough, I googled 2017 ON3P and came across this:
https://www.newschoolers.com/forum/t...7-ON3P-Steeple

Since I'm too lazy to log in and vote there and I know Scott reads this thread, I'm going to discuss Mr. Steele's post here.

We're working through prototyping and our ideas about the 2017 Steeple. If you're not familiar, it's our tour-focused uphill/downhill option that started with Billy Goat DNA. I'm curious what the peanut gallery has to say on some of the questions we're kicking around.

Essentially, the tour line for 2017 goes to three models. That allows us room to focus the narrow Steeple more specifically on the uphill-focused, gram-counting side of the backcountry market. We've got a few tricks up our sleeve to cut the weight down, but there are two main questions:

With a waist width of 92, and lengths of 174, 179, 184:

Would you prefer RES (a long elliptical sidecut the emphasizes taper and releaseability) or more traditional sidecut (greater edge contact, less able to pivot)?

Would you prefer our standard Steeple rocker (25cm tip, 15 tail) or something less rockered (perhaps 10-15cm tip, half height tail)?

I've got my thoughts and our on-snow results, but I'm curious to hear yours.

I absolutely do not see the point of RES (a soft snow design) for a lightweight, 92 waisted ski. Traditional sidecut with a long radius, traditional camber with small tip rocker and tail kick. Under 7lb for the pair in 179cm. I'll buy a pair when I destroy my G3 Zenoxides (probably after 1-2 spring seasons).

[jvskinn]

Thanks for the input on the BG's guys. Currently trying to figure out which skis I need to sell so I can order some BG's.

Length wise, I normally like skis around 180-184cm. My daily driver is the Jeffrey at 181cm and I think it's just right for me, so I'm thinking the 184 Billy Goat would be the way to go. Would love to hear opinions.

[ScrewYou]

What a great ski. The 191 billy goat is sooo nimble for its size. I was zipperlining huge mashed potato bumps with them, as soon as i thought about turning theyd go. Im surprised at how easy going they were, but I could also straightline them and be in complete control. Overall i like them better than the 196 governor. Much more playful and maneuverable, and almost identical in the stability department. The governors pivot well, but theyre not even in the same league as the BG. I cant wait to take the BGs into some steeper trees.

They take a little getting used to on groomers, and they definitely like to be driven on firm stuff. I honestly thought the steeple 112 was much better on groomers. However everywhere else, the BG just kills it. I dont think ive ever had such a good time in bumps on such a burly ski.

They are somewhat jibby too. I find them as jibby, if not more so than the bibby pro. They have more pop than the bibby for sure. Ski switch fine, altough i dont ski very hard switch. In the air the weight completely disappears. I was expecting some heavy, unwieldy ski, but its almost as easy to ski as the jeffrey.

I cant decide if i like them or the jeffrey 114 more.. the jeffrey is more versatile, but the BG is very special. I wish i had gotten on them sooner.

The hype is real. Buy a billy goat NOW!!!

[PowTron]

I am sad to hear that the Wren112 isn't selling. You fucking pussies.

Hey, we know the truth. Just because all these others can't see it is their loss

[PowTron]

FWIW.


Since this thread has turned into a bit of an ON3P wishlist, I'll give the skis that I'd personally like to see, with absolutely no regard for what might sell at retail. Just what I personally want to ski.

-Slim the Wren 112 down to 108 underfoot. Same lengths, same flex, same camber/rocker. Ideally straighten the ski out just a little (radius ~29m). I'd love to see what that would ski like with metal, too. The Wren 112 is fine as it is, this would just make it a little better as a firm/mixed snow charger, which is how I use it. Any tighter radius, softer, or losing the camber is a deal breaker for me. Honestly don't know if it'd be worth the money for me to replace my 112s, but that would make the perfect Wrenegade for me personally.

-a Praxis Protest fighter. That ski is seriously impressive. So playful and fun, but very stable. It has just the right amount of sidecut and camber for its purpose. The C&D kinda competes, and is a great ski, but it's just a little to charge oriented and heavy, plus the 193 length is just a bit too long, for where I ski on pow days (CO trees), particularly since this class of ski typically gets backcountry/sidecountry/slackcountry use around here. The BG handles 90% of my inbounds pow days. Honestly at this point my next ski purchase will likely be 187 Protests in the UL layup with tech bindings.

-not really ON3P's thing, but a real mountaineering ski. 177-180ish length, low to mid 90s underfoot, 25m+ radius, a bit of tip rocker and taper, kick tail, and camber underfoot. And LIGHT. I am fine with thinner bases/edges than typical ON3P construction, and also a blended core rather than 100% bamboo for this purpose. Not really a ski that ON3P will ever (or probably should ever) make, but it's a ski I want that doesn't really exist right now so I'm listing it anyway. (Yes there's plenty of really light 90-95mm skis with the right camber/rocker profile, but long radius is damn near impossible to find.)

Oh just stop it...your wishes are valid requests and fit in line with almost everything we are working on for the 2035/2036 ski line.

[Sessiøn]

What a great ski. The 191 billy goat is sooo nimble for its size. I was zipperlining huge mashed potato bumps with them, as soon as i thought about turning theyd go. Im surprised at how easy going they were, but I could also straightline them and be in complete control. Overall i like them better than the 196 governor. Much more playful and maneuverable, and almost identical in the stability department. The governors pivot well, but theyre not even in the same league as the BG. I cant wait to take the BGs into some steeper trees.

They take a little getting used to on groomers, and they definitely like to be driven on firm stuff. I honestly thought the steeple 112 was much better on groomers. However everywhere else, the BG just kills it. I dont think ive ever had such a good time in bumps on such a burly ski.

They are somewhat jibby too. I find them as jibby, if not more so than the bibby pro. They have more pop than the bibby for sure. Ski switch fine, altough i dont ski very hard switch. In the air the weight completely disappears. I was expecting some heavy, unwieldy ski, but its almost as easy to ski as the jeffrey.

I cant decide if i like them or the jeffrey 114 more.. the jeffrey is more versatile, but the BG is very special. I wish i had gotten on them sooner.

The hype is real. Buy a billy goat NOW!!!

I literally had to make the similar decision today. Do I grab another pair of BG's (been skiing 191, and 186 for 3 years) Or do i switch it up for a Jefferyish ski. In the end I chose the latter, but FUCK I love me some BG's. Hopefully I have swayed some people in the past to jump on a pair. But I also loved the shit out of the Caylor.

[ScrewYou]

The jeffrey is awesome you wont regret it.

[the_flying_v]

Spoke with David in the factory this summer regarding the Steeple. I'll chime in as well.

Personally, this would be a ski for spring skiing where conditions vary greatly i.e. the Cascade volcanoes. I'd want something with lots of sidecut to grip the spicy sections. Way less rocker. I'd always eye the Wren 102 tip profile and think how that would be close to what I'd want if such a ski existed.

Interested to see how this one plays out.

[HVskier]

I've been on goats since the first gen and picked up a pair of Jeff 122's end of last season. I think the Jeffrey just suits me better and I have a lot more fun on them. More playful and less demanding to ski but plenty of beef for me. The closer to center mount also seems to work better. I've liked both pairs of Billy goats at times (og pair for years in east coast trees) but ended up feeling like I'm getting bucked around way too much on them.