WHAT IS GENTRIFICATION? Do you care?

[Tippster]

^ Ernest needs a cell phone with spelchech and.an.adjustable.spacebar.key.

[highangle]

Now, while no one likes the idea of evicting an 80 year old from their rental property, fact is that that's life as a renter. Is it unpleasant? Yeah, it is. Is it right? Yeah, it is. I would agree that there should be other social support systems in place to help, but placing anti-competitive controls on the housing market isn't-t the right answer.

Wouldn't disagree. But by the same token I wouldn't look at a remediation requirement built into city codes as much more than a cost of doing business in a particular location. I'd incur increased costs developing in any historic district, why is it suddenly an anticompetitive intrusion to incur different types of increased costs to sell high-priced homes in a planned zone made profitable by other mechanisms, like historic redlining and current yuppie sprawl?

[stfu&gbtw]

Wouldn't disagree. But by the same token I wouldn't look at a remediation requirement built into city codes as much more than a cost of doing business in a particular location. I'd incur increased costs developing in any historic district, why is it suddenly an anticompetitive intrusion to incur different types of increased costs to sell high-priced homes in a planned zone made profitable by other mechanisms, like historic redlining and current yuppie sprawl?

It isn't "suddenly" anticompetitive... I don't have a lot of love for most "historic" districts either. In the handful of instances in which something of significance actually exists, sure. But the benefit of trying to twist the market to protect some shit hole that's always been a shit hole, just because it's an old shit hole, is lost on me. Almost as much as my joke was lost on our resident child abuser...

[Fritz]

Best yet.

x2


.........

[Game Over]

I am always curious why the tax system never gets criticized here. Often older residents - property owners - on a fixed income get eff'd by quickly increasing property taxes (at least in Boston). If the cities cared, they could grandfather and lock prop tax rates no? .

San Diego does this.

[BmillsSkier]

Nice work Papa.

I've been exposed to a couple gentrified areas where I live so my $.02:

Here in ATL, just to my south is a large area called the Westside or West Midtown and apparently the first real gentrification of it was pre-recession in the early 2000s, and they mandated that a large percentage of the new mixed use development (very large shopping and condo/apartment mix that used to be a train yard/depot - now called Atlantic Station) contain Section 8/low income access. It's thriving and the only complaints I've witnessed/heard from friends that live there are the retartgangbangers that flow into the area on weekends to hang with buddies that live there and cause problems. Granted it's way more diverse than most other 'gentrified' areas of the country and the policing is very preventative so not much if anything happens, just a lot of posturing - but there is a definite white flight on weekends. The greater Westside/West Midtown area could be described as the Warehouse district of ATL so when that all got and continues to be gentrified not many residents were displaced. It's really nice seeing property values double since 2008 and having 10 of the top 20 restaurants in town a 5 minute drive from my neighborhood. Clink-clink to the author of the OP's article. I'm enjoying it.

The only downside is that I can see my most favorite dirt bar in the world eventually being razed and turned into a PDX-style 4 story mixed use development like everything else around it in the near future. That would really suck.

The other example of 'gentrification' that I can point to personally is the Over the Rhine neighborhood of downtown Cincinnati. In 2000 it was the center of race riots that made national news and shut the city down for a week. Now it's hipster haven and the turnaround has been fantastic. Prior to the change it was in the top 10 most dangerous neighborhoods per the FBI stats, now it's where you go to see mustache wax and get yer Old Fashioned made right. There's still a lot of retartgangbangers around though as the ghetto residents really have no where to go since they've been geographically and economically entrenched there for decades and murders and gunplay is way up there this year from what I've read/listened to. That said, the benefits waaaaaay outpace any detriment, it's not like the city hasn't built all new section 8 housing that has gotten shitted up a few miles to the west in the mean time.

On the whole I don't care, and I like seeing cool areas of town go through rebirth and become great again (they all were at one point no matter where we're talking about) But then again, as Hugh said, I'm an above average special poster on TGR. So get me another Brooklyn barkeep and make sure it's proper with no bitching about how much American Spirits cost around the corner compared to the shit-hole you had to move to now.

[BmillsSkier]

Nice work Papa.

I've been exposed to a couple gentrified areas where I live so my $.02:

Here in ATL, just to my south is a large area called the Westside or West Midtown and apparently the first real gentrification of it was pre-recession in the early 2000s, and they mandated that a large percentage of the new mixed use development (very large shopping and condo/apartment mix that used to be a train yard/depot - now called Atlantic Station) contain Section 8/low income access. It's thriving and the only complaints I've witnessed/heard from friends that live there are the retartgangbangers that flow into the area on weekends to hang with buddies that live there and cause problems. Granted it's way more diverse than most other 'gentrified' areas of the country and the policing is very preventative so not much if anything happens, just a lot of posturing - but there is a definite white flight on weekends. The greater Westside/West Midtown area could be described as the Warehouse district of ATL so when that all got and continues to be gentrified not many residents were displaced. It's really nice seeing property values double since 2008 and having 10 of the top 20 restaurants in town a 5 minute drive from my neighborhood. Clink-clink to the author of the OP's article. I'm enjoying it.

The only downside is that I can see my most favorite dirt bar in the world eventually being razed and turned into a PDX-style 4 story mixed use development like everything else around it in the near future. That would really suck.

The other example of 'gentrification' that I can point to personally is the Over the Rhine neighborhood of downtown Cincinnati. In 2000 it was the center of race riots that made national news and shut the city down for a week. Now it's hipster haven and the turnaround has been fantastic. Prior to the change it was in the top 10 most dangerous neighborhoods per the FBI stats, now it's where you go to see mustache wax and get yer Old Fashioned made right. There's still a lot of retartgangbangers around though as the ghetto residents really have no where to go since they've been geographically and economically entrenched there for decades and murders and gunplay is way up there this year from what I've read/listened to. That said, the benefits waaaaaay outpace any detriment, it's not like the city hasn't built all new section 8 housing that has gotten shitted up a few miles to the west in the mean time.

On the whole I don't care, and I like seeing cool areas of town go through rebirth and become great again (they all were at one point no matter where we're talking about) But then again, as Hugh said, I'm an above average special poster on TGR. So get me another Brooklyn barkeep and make sure it's proper with no bitching about how much American Spirits cost around the corner compared to the shit-hole you had to move to now.

ETA: Funny how no one bitches about gentrification in PDX because the two black guys all got moved to Crackinmyass or Troutdale decades ago to make way for all the unique and totally different snowflakes that make up that great city. (see SE and now NE) It's all just 'cool' now.

ETA: Fucking double drunk edit.

[snoqpass]

PDX gentrification
http://www.thewire.com/national/2014...-about/357969/

[highangle]

It isn't "suddenly" anticompetitive... I don't have a lot of love for most "historic" districts either. In the handful of instances in which something of significance actually exists, sure. But the benefit of trying to twist the market to protect some shit hole that's always been a shit hole, just because it's an old shit hole, is lost on me. ...

Fkn munny, son.




A city plan would ostensibly apply to every other developer interested in an area. Seems all you're bitching about is perceived barriers to entry for budding young real estate speculators and developers trying to come up through the ranks. Table stakes are high in Manhattan too. Don't play if you can't pay.

[stfu&gbtw]

Fkn munny, son.




A city plan would ostensibly apply to every other developer interested in an area. Seems all you're bitching about is perceived barriers to entry for budding young real estate speculators and developers trying to come up through the ranks. Table stakes are high in Manhattan too. Don't play if you can't pay.

Not bitching... I don't think everything's perfect, but I wouldn't sign up for some major overhaul of the urban planning process that creates a lot of government subsidized housing in highly desirable areas. That's really only based on an opinion that we don't, as a society, owe people a convenient lifestyle. There's no underlying agenda there... If a developer wants to put up affordable housing and thinks he can make money doing it, go for it. But we don't need a HUD project on every other block.

[fastfred]

I've watched neighborhoods go the other way, from nice family nieghborhoods safe and well kept homes to complete shit hole with absolutely no hope of ever being gentrified, my uncle would always talk about the white flight he stuck it out for a long time and then got out, kind of place the police don't even like hanging out in

[fastfred]

Nice work Papa.


The other example of 'gentrification' that I can point to personally is the Over the Rhine neighborhood of downtown Cincinnati. In 2000 it was the center of race riots that made national news and shut the city down for a week. Now it's hipster haven and the turnaround has been fantastic. Prior to the change it was in the top 10 most dangerous neighborhoods per the FBI stats, now it's where you go to see mustache wax and get yer Old Fashioned made right. There's still a lot of retartgangbangers around though as the ghetto residents really have no where to go since they've been geographically and economically entrenched there for decades and murders and gunplay is way up there this year from what I've read/listened to. That said, the benefits waaaaaay outpace any detriment, it's not like the city hasn't built all new section 8 housing that has gotten shitted up a few miles to the west in the mean time.

I know all about this place spent some time there in 90, have not been there since, can't imagine what its like now, remember hitting the ground a few times when gun fire was way too close, had a roomate who would wander through abandon buildings and houses all the time, i was sure he wasn't going to come home eventually, always got served at bars down there even though I was 17 and 18 years old, no one cared, one kid tried to sell me crack out side my house when I told him I lived here he apolgized and was so sorry for trying to sell me drugs pretty funny shit

[riser4]

The Soviets had some good solutions for this. Time to dust off Marx.

[Meadow Skipper]

Perfect. I laughed.

It's not that people don't get your jokes stfu, it's that they aren't funny.

[GeezerSteve]

Bet those developers find those regulations rather intrusive, dontchathink?

Not too intrusive to stop them from building multifamily developments at historically high levels in our town. A Scooby Doo band aid is better than nothing, although I'd like to see more than that. My point: The opportunities that intercity developers are now exploiting arose as a result of conspiratorial racist bank redlining -- which is as non-market as you get -- but your solution now is unbridled laissez-faire capitalism to correct the ills created by systemic non-market racism? So, the minorities get completely screwed coming in and going out, and the Rich White Man once again takes the treasure, but oooooooooo how awful that the Rich White Man/s March to Manifest Destiny might be intruded by govt regulation. Okay, got it.

You expect, simply because of market economics, for the worker class to be forced to move because richer people, the people who depend on the work of these people for their livelihood, food, or clean living conditions, want their domicile. That's OK with you. You see absolutely nothing wrong with that scenario. What if someone richer than you wants to kick you out of your building? Oh - you're a land-owner. Never mind, you have no skin in the game whatsoever.

Wait, what's with the double-talk? Which side are you on Tippster?

[stfu&gbtw]

Perfect. I laughed.

It's not that people don't get your jokes stfu, it's that they aren't funny.

I know. This is all really serious, and how dare I even suggest otherwise.

You're one precious little snowflake Flip Flops... anyone told you that today?

[Tippster]

Not too intrusive to stop them from building multifamily developments at historically high levels in our town. A Scooby Doo band aid is better than nothing, although I'd like to see more than that. My point: The opportunities that intercity developers are now exploiting arose as a result of conspiratorial racist bank redlining -- which is as non-market as you get -- but your solution now is unbridled laissez-faire capitalism to correct the ills created by systemic non-market racism? So, the minorities get completely screwed coming in and going out, and the Rich White Man once again takes the treasure, but oooooooooo how awful that the Rich White Man/s March to Manifest Destiny might be intruded by govt regulation. Okay, got it.

Wait, what's with the double-talk? Which side are you on Tippster?

Hold on. Regarding the first issue my point was rather easy to grasp, I thought. Razing 50 low cost units to build 30 high cost units and 5 low cost ones displaces 90% of the poorer population on that lot. Also, since my BiL is a builder of multi-unit housing I have first hand experience with his griping about those 5 units.

The second item wasn't directed at you. I think it's really shitty to claim that merely because the market says "move" that people should be forced to do so, and that these areas depend on low wage workers (from waiters/baristas/cooks/bartenders to cleaning ladies, etc.) We see this problem in every ski town. I think that a mandated number of low-income housing needs to be part of the equation, and should probably be higher than it is (referring back to your item.)

[Meadow Skipper]

A quote from the tv show "Justified: comes to mind:

Chief Deputy Art Mullen: Don't like rich people much, huh Raylan?
Raylan Givens: Nobody likes rich people Art.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1588042/...item=qt1698907

[Ski to Be]

Nobody shed a tear when they tore down Cabrini Green in Chicago. Still not sure where they put all of those people

[DasBlunt]

do the poll Morans.

I lost the link in the OP, sorry no attribution...

[liv2ski]

San Diego does this.

Well ya, CA does, it is called prop 13. Bought our home close to 30 years ago. My property taxes have increased almost $1k in that period of time. Oldsters having to move because the property taxes went way up over time is BS.

[Tippster]

Well ya, CA does, it is called prop 13. Bought our home close to 30 years ago. My property taxes have increased almost $1k in that period of time. Oldsters having to move because the property taxes went way up over time is BS.

Wait, you're complaining because your property taxes went up $1000 in 30 years? Cry me a river. Try doubling them in 10.

[klauss]

That's not a complaint. prop 13 limits tax base increases to the increase in the CA CPI index. However, if there is a sale/change of ownership, the property gets a new tax base.

edit: it's even better than that. the increase to assessed value is limited to the minimum of CA CPI or 2%.

[stfu&gbtw]

Wait, you're complaining because your property taxes went up $1000 in 30 years? Cry me a river. Try doubling them in 10.

.

[Game Over]

However, if there is a sale/change of ownership, the property gets a new tax base.

Not if it's inherited.