WHAT IS GENTRIFICATION? Do you care?

[riser4]

Should minimum wage workers have to commute many many hours on public transpo to work in the cities? Shitty way to get to a shitty job. The city grinds to a halt without them. Is their some option between ghettos and fancy high rises that only Sheiks from Dubai can afford? Who says the city should just be for the ultra rich?

[Buster Highmen]

I care, but I don't know what I can do about it. For those claiming to care and extolling capitalism, you'd be advised to maybe take the time to read Piketty excerpts.

[Meadow Skipper]

Should minimum wage workers have to commute many many hours on public transpo to work in the ski areas? Shitty way to get to a shitty job. The ski area grinds to a halt without them. Is their some option between mobile homes and fancy mansions and condos that only Texans from Dallas can afford? Who says the ski towns should just be for the ultra rich?

I changed some things for you.

[Tippster]

Pretty much what Austin said in his first post, but add the important factor that current circumstances in most cities resulted from racial segregation via bank redlining. Passing this off as merely the product of free markets ignores the legacy of redlining.

That may be true but that ship has sailed. It's now purely the market, and to halt or reverse it would take some rather intrusive public policy.

So of course that won't happen anytime soon, if ever, in the more conservative areas of the country.

[GeezerSteve]

Rather intrusive to whom?

The redlining ship may have left the port decades ago but it continues to sail. Current racial/ethnic/class distribution nearly every American city was mapped out by bank redlining and there are many places where those redlining segregation continues and will continue for decades.

It's not "purely the market" in some cities, e.g., Seattle, where intercity developers are required to fund and/or build low-cost hosing units on or near their developments. The building boom continues in this town notwithstanding said government intrusiveness.

[Buster Highmen]

Who are we to chide the implicit cock sucking of the well to do?
I'm an investor, tax me.

[highangle]

Rather intrusive to whom?

The redlining ship may have left the port decades ago but it continues to sail. Current racial/ethnic/class distribution nearly every American city was mapped out by bank redlining and there are many places where those redlining segregation continues and will continue for decades.

It's not "purely the market" in some cities, e.g., Seattle, where intercity developers are required to fund and/or build low-cost hosing units on or near their developments. The building boom continues in this town notwithstanding said government intrusiveness.

Farmers and paper companies are familiar with CRP and "wetlands banks", most often set asides 'there' for something destroyed 'here'. Mining companies are often required to remediate other lands as a condition of mining public or private lands. Most urban developers are familiar with zoning as a cost of doing business. No new "Intrusions" here, except a local government with an urban plan that has social justice as a priority. I see there's still $$ to be made in the Seattle housing market though...

[stfu&gbtw]

Should minimum wage workers have to commute many many hours on public transpo to work in the cities? Shitty way to get to a shitty job. The city grinds to a halt without them. Is their some option between ghettos and fancy high rises that only Sheiks from Dubai can afford? Who says the city should just be for the ultra rich?

Yes... one of the things that make shitty jobs shitty is that they don't occur at the end of your street. The city isn't only for the ultra rich. Plenty of only sort-of rich people live there too. But by law of supply and demand, desirable housing is more expensive than undesirable housing, and in major metro areas, short commutes are expensive. When I was living in NYC and wanted to reduce my expenses, you know what I did? I moved further away from work where rent was cheaper. Why should rich people trudge 2 hours to work so that their minimum wage staff can live down the block?

[highangle]

The preceding message was brought to you by Socialist public transit, working to keep the labor cost of your urban Big Mac at the national average!

[Buster Highmen]

Geez, keep the slurping sounds down, willya?

[narc]

It needs to be somewhat controlled, this is happening in London in the areas with more potential with a focus on developing the most expensive exclusive apartments few can afford. More and more developments in London are almost empty because the people that can afford them are rick arabs and russians who are never there.

[ill-advised strategy]

White people leave: oh no it's the awful racist white flight.

White people come back: oh no it's the awful racist gentrification.

Oh ok then.

[highangle]

White people leave: oh no it's the awful racist white flight.

White people come back: oh no it's the awful racist gentrification.

Oh ok then.

"I Told Him It Was Wrong

By F. X. Leach
Omaha 1968

A filthy young pig
got tired of his gig
and begged for a transfer
to Texas.
Police ran him down
on the Outskirts of town
and ripped off his Nuts
with a coathanger.
Everything after that was like
coming home in a cage on the
back of at train from
New Orleans on a Saturday
night
with no money and cancer and
a dead girlfriend.
In the end it was no use
He died on his knees in a barn
yard
with all the others watching.
Res Ipsa Loquitur"

[Tippster]

Rather intrusive to whom?

The redlining ship may have left the port decades ago but it continues to sail. Current racial/ethnic/class distribution nearly every American city was mapped out by bank redlining and there are many places where those redlining segregation continues and will continue for decades.

It's not "purely the market" in some cities, e.g., Seattle, where intercity developers are required to fund and/or build low-cost hosing units on or near their developments. The building boom continues in this town notwithstanding said government intrusiveness.

Bet those developers find those regulations rather intrusive, dontchathink?

Edit: We have those same regulations in place in DC. The problem is 50 poor families get displaced and only 5 low-cost units are incorporated into the re-development plan. Those numbers start adding up and you get a 90% reduction over large areas - you know... gentrification. That solution doesn't solve the problem, it puts a Scooby Doo bandaid on it.

[highangle]

They can find a new job if they don't like it.

[Tippster]

They can find a new job if they don't like it.

My sarcasm meter is going off... I hope it's not a false alarm.

[stfu&gbtw]

My sarcasm meter is going off... I hope it's not a false alarm.

Why would that be sarcasm? Now, not only does the world owe the uneducated a living, but also some nice conveniently located new construction? Why don't we all just go work at the upper east side McDonalds and walk to work from our government subsidized housing on 77th and Madison?

[Tippster]

Why would that be sarcasm? Now, not only does the world owe the uneducated a living, but also some nice conveniently located new construction? Why don't we all just go work at the upper east side McDonalds and walk to work from our government subsidized housing on 77th and Madison?

Be honest. The Dr. dropped you when you were born. Just admit it. Let me understand your point:

You expect, simply because of market economics, for the worker class to be forced to move because richer people, the people who depend on the work of these people for their livelihood, food, or clean living conditions, want their domicile. That's OK with you. You see absolutely nothing wrong with that scenario. What if someone richer than you wants to kick you out of your building? Oh - you're a land-owner. Never mind, you have no skin in the game whatsoever.

Now cry like a bitch when they build a highway on your easement.

[stfu&gbtw]

Be honest. The Dr. dropped you when you were born. Just admit it. Let me understand your point:

You expect, simply because of market economics, for the worker class to be forced to move because richer people, the people who depend on the work of these people for their livelihood, food, or clean living conditions, want their domicile. That's OK with you. You see absolutely nothing wrong with that scenario. What if someone richer than you wants to kick you out of your building? Oh - you're a land-owner. Never mind, you have no skin in the game whatsoever.

Now cry like a bitch when they build a highway on your easement.

Aw... Trippster is so cute when he thinks he's arguing on behalf of the little guy...


Basically yes. I think market economics should determine the price of housing. And no, I don't think it's inappropriate that people who perform unskilled labor are priced out of living in the neighborhoods where they work. If that doesn't suit them, best of luck making $11/hour pouring coffee in the 'hood.

[highangle]

I was talking about the developers.... You don't have to be a real estate developer or burger flipper. Go find something else to do if you can't make it pay.

Most of the value in a piece of real estate depends on context. Most context, hence value, of a piece of sub/urban real estate is provided by the same damn expensive codes people with narrow focus often like to bitch about.

[Doremite]

I am always curious why the tax system never gets criticized here. Often older residents - property owners - on a fixed income get eff'd by quickly increasing property taxes (at least in Boston). If the cities cared, they could grandfather and lock prop tax rates no? Rent control seems to always crack and fall apart too (not that it exists here but look at SF). There has to be ways for "betterment" without displacement but I think cities just want to stack needed cash with rising prop tax revenues > caring about the lower and middle class residents getting pushed out.

[stfu&gbtw]

If the cities cared, they could grandfather and lock prop tax rates no? Rent control seems to always crack and fall apart too

I wouldn't disagree with that, providing there were controls in place to prevent abuse. Rent control in NYC is a scam.... But I don't see how anyone benefits for taxing an elderly home owner out of the neighborhood. That being said, in the instance where someone owns their place and the market value/taxes increase to the point that the maintenance becomes unaffordable, it's also likely to be true that the townhouse or apartment that was purchased for $70k in 1961 can now be sold for a million dollars or more.

Now, while no one likes the idea of evicting an 80 year old from their rental property, fact is that that's life as a renter. Is it unpleasant? Yeah, it is. Is it right? Yeah, it is. I would agree that there should be other social support systems in place to help, but placing anti-competitive controls on the housing market isn't-t the right answer.

[Ernest_Hemingway]

I remember when Miss Stein and Alice found a house in Bilignin they wished to rent for the summer. It sat high over the valley in a stand of fruit trees and had a view of Mont Blanc. Down in the valley the streams ran clear, flowers bloomed constantly, and all the children were pretty.

The only issue was the house was.occupied by a French army offjcer. Miss Stein really wanted to rent the house so she decided to use her influence in Paris to have him promoted and posted overseas. I tried to argue with her that this was a poor solution and there were certainly plenty of nice houses in Bilagrin not occupied by army officers. But arguing with Miss Stein was about as frustrating and useless as debating anything here on TRG. Afterall, he WAS going to get a promotion.

Miss Stein was successful and eventually got her summer house. The army officer was posted to Africa and soon afterwards war.broke out with Morocco. He died in a prison near Meknes while Alice made lovely pies of apricots and plums from the orchards nearby and cooled them on the window sill of what had once been his kitchen.

I am not sure if that is gentrification but I believe it is close.

[Meadow Skipper]

I remember when Miss Stein and Alice found a house in Bilignin they wished to rent for the summer. It sat high over the valley in a stand of fruit trees and had a view of Mont Blanc. Down in the valley the streams ran clear, flowers bloomed constantly, and all the children were pretty.

The only issue was the house was.occupied by a French army offjcer. Miss Stein really wanted to rent the house so she decided to use her influence in Paris to have him promoted and posted overseas. I tried to argue with her that this was a poor solution and there were certainly plenty of nice houses in Bilagrin not occupied by army officers. But arguing with Miss Stein was about as frustrating and useless as debating anything here on TRG. Afterall, he WAS going to get a promotion.

Miss Stein was successful and eventually got her summer house. The army officer was posted to Africa and soon afterwards war.broke out with Morocco. He died in a prison near Meknes while Alice made lovely pies of apricots and plums from the orchards nearby and cooled them on the window sill of what had once been his kitchen.

I am not sure if that is gentrification but I believe it is close.

Best yet.

[stfu&gbtw]

^ Ernest needs a cell phone with spelchech and.an.adjustable.spacebar.key.